Submarine Simulation WW1 (Project)

[Sung]

The sea area includes no historic routes.
When you submerge - the game ends.
There will be no naval bases and terrain. Only offshore action.
As i say the game wouldn't be a big simulation.

@iambecomelife
I never heard about Project25. No, we don't affiliated with them.

We want to develop a submarine game for instant action -

[Sung]

Sorry Guys, I will not longer post any screenshots and informations about the game here. The reason is, that nobody will spend some informations (or nobody has any informations) about the details that i need. So we go on to develop the game.
Thank you

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Sung

Sorry Guys, I will not longer post any screenshots and informations about the game here. The reason is, that nobody will spend some informations (or nobody has any informations) about the details that i need. So we go on to develop the game.
Thank you

Let me know exactly what type of information you want and I will see if I can help. I have several WWI books on submarines and the German fleet.

Also, I think it would be very nice if you could add things like land, harbors (even if they're not detailed) medals, promotions, and random shipping lanes.

BTW, those are very nice screens but again, I would like to see larger ones if you are willing.

[Sung]

Ich schreib hier einfach mal in deutsch (weil ich in english nicht das selbe ausdrücken kann).

Hallo Community.

Seit gestern gibt es HorusGames nicht mehr. Mein Hobby! Da mein Partner keine Lust mehr auf Programmieren und Spiele Entwicklung hat (nach 6 Jahren zusammenarbeit und etlichen Projekten).
Schade den unser letztes Projekt eine UBoot Simulation im 1 WW war doch "wiedereinmal" recht weit fortgeschritten (ich hatte mir sogar 5 Bücher zum Thema zugelegt). Nun habe ich insgesamt 6 Projekte auf meinem Konto die aufgrund mangelnder Lust/Zeit auf Seiten des Programmieres eingestellt wurden. Einfach nur frustrierend.


Hier mal ein paar Bilder wie weit U-21 fortgeschritten war.









Bei einem neuerlichen Projekt würde ich mich auch einbringen, aber ein wenig Ambition und Durchhaltevermögen sollte schon dabei sein und vor allem Klarheit was man erreichen möchte. Ich würde bei jedem Spielprojekt mit machen was folgende Kriterien erfüllt:

- Einfache klare Struktur
- mit einem minimalen Aufwand an Leuten (sehr kleines Team, am besten zu zweit)
- alle über 18 Jahre alt
- kommerzielle Ausrichtung (ShareIt*, etc...)
- enger Zeitrahmen, nicht länger als 6 Monate
- Blitz 3D bevorzugt

Ich würde gern ein Spiel auch mal zuende bringen wollen. Egal was dann dabei herauskommt.

Falls jemand Interesse hat - bitte melden. (auch in Englisch, aber im Moment bin ich einfach zu frustriert um hier in Englisch zu schreiben).

[Deamon]

To anyone, I posted here my translation of Sungs message:

Originally Posted by Sung

I am posting here in german ( cause I cannot express it the same way in english ).

Hallo Community.

Since yesterday there is no HorusGames anymore. My hobby! Since my partner lost his interest in programming and game development ( after 6 years of team work and scores of projects ). That's a pitty cause our last project, an WWI u-boat sim was ONCE AGAIN pretty far advanced ( I even baught 5 books about this subject ). Now I have 6 projects in total in my record that were canceled because of lack of interest/time of the programmer. This is just frustrating.

Here are a couple of pics how far advanced U-21 was.









I would want to participate in a new project but there should be at least some real ambitions and stamina behind it and clarity about what is supposed to be achieved. I would participate on any project that fulfills the following criteria:

- Simple clear structure
- with a minimum on people( very small team, just 2 would be prefferable )
- everyone 18+ years old
- Commercial orientation(ShareIt*, ect....)
- tight shedule, not longer than 6 months
- prefferable in blitz 3D

I would like to FINISH a game no matter what it would be like at the end.

If someone is interested please contact me.(In english too but right now I am just too frustrated to write here in english.)

[Deamon]

Oh nee, du!

Erlaube mir mal dein Post zu übersetzen.

Originally Posted by Sung

Since yesterday there is no HorusGames anymore. My hobby! Since my partner lost his interest in programming and game development ( after 6 years of team work and scores of projects ).

Uhh, that's tough.

BTW how old was your partner ?

But besides that I think most projects and like this.

That's a pitty cause our last project, an WWI u-boat sim was ONCE AGAIN pretty far advanced ( I even baught 5 books about this subject ). Now I have 6 projects in total in my record that were canceled because of lack of interest/time of the programmer. This is just frustrating.

Your buddy didn't wanted to finish any of the six ?

Here are a couple of pics how far advanced U-21 was

What a pitty, it was a nice job you were pulling out here with U-21. I was very curious what you would have been able to pull out.

I would want to participate in a new project but there should be at least some real ambitions and stamina behind it and clarity about what is supposed to be achieved

You should have come to us! I am overall almost 5 years on the project. And I do not think to give up, no, I have come too far for it and the whole thing gots too promessing. Actually I am more motivated and productive than ever. We have now a very steady development in place.

I would participate on any project that fulfills the following criteria:

- Simple clear structure
- with a minimum on people( very small team, just 2 would be prefferable )
- everyone 18+ years old
- Commercial orientation(ShareIt*, ect....)
- tight shedule, not longer than 6 months
- prefferable in blitz 3D

You might fit to us. We are all 30+. Never ever will we give up. The commited core team consist so far of only 2 people and I would consider us as very solid.

But I fear our ambitions might be way too much for you. We are absolutely not after casual or arcadish games. We are HARD CORE player/developer who seek the most real most complete and challening experience. We are creating something new and unique. We want to set a new hallmark for historical naval simulations.

So I cannot serve you with your last 2 points. But I appreciate your stamina for your 6 years work.

It would have been more rewarding for you if you would have spent the 6 years with us. We are really of the same type of stamina. But if you preffer to spend your time with counting canceled projects that were all in advanced state, be my guest

I mean the real fun of canceling projects is when they are in an advanced state

Besides that you could have learned blitz3D yourself and do the project all alone. It might have taken twice as long but you would at least get it finished. But I must admit your shedule of only 6 months is to say the least a little bit utopical.

Do you have the code of the game ?

You might find anothe coder to finish it or learn it yourself. It is indeed rather easy to learn.

I would like to FINISH a game no matter what it would be like at the end.

With folks like this you will never finish anything.

I think for most, serious game development is a frustrating experience. Most commercial projects gain loses not revenue!

Also when they guy you work with looses his steam to push the project you started with him beyoned the finishing line then do NOT start a second project with him!!!

I am very sorry for you Sung!!!

This is not the first time I hear a story like this, the history is unfortunately full of such stories. I think in most cases something goes wrong or someone runs out of steam and the project gets canceled. I would recomend you to be very picky about with whome you team up. It is not very recommandable to join someon who do not have any references. It is so important the there is the right spirit and ideals behind a project. You have to be very very carefull. Especially for artist it can be most frustrating since they depend on coders.

BTW have you ever got a playable prototype from him ?

[Sung]

Hello Deamon,
thank you for the words. I`m very pleased about your offer to work on your project, but i think i'm not the right guy for this.
I fear that such great projects never come to a end. I would like to work on a small and overlook project.
A Game or Simulation project like yours is so difficult and complicated in programming that i had no idea where to start. After all, the models and gfx should be historic correct in every part and that is my problem. Because I'm not a technicain or somthing else. I'm a hobby artist - not more.
You ask for the prototypes of the projects. They are all running. For example the strategy game: Frontlines - Operation Iraqi Freedom was in Beta.
All projects are contracted with a written agreement hedged. This includes the code as well as the graphics. Our focus has always been commercially and therefore I can not offer demos or parts of the projects. I have only compiled code, no source.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Sung

Hello Deamon,
thank you for the words. I`m very pleased about your offer to work on your project, but i think i'm not the right guy for this.
I fear that such great projects never come to a end.

Very true but I am not a lunatic and facing an never ending development time I came up with a special deign that allows me to brake down the big thing in to smaller steps and achieve the big goal in smaller steps. That means we are working on a serie of smaller sims, adding to each release a new dimension instead of on a big one for ever. This makes the whole thing achievable but still we can stick to it for a long time if we want to.

I would like to work on a small and overlook project.

Yes but you see where it leads you too. Actually you ended up to work for 6 years and non of the projects got finished. Lost 6 years!

If you do not want to loose 6 years again it is time for you to seriously reconsider your development approach! You do something wrong!

If you have commercial intersts you maybe should apply to a company and let you pay for what you do. But if you want to do it commercially the indi way, then the only way I see for you is to make it all alone because it is so hard to find someone on whome you can depend on. You reall should have read a lot about the gaming industry, you would see it is full of stories like yours. Infact this is the first thing I did and realized soon what I should and should not do. This helped me a BIG time to avoid beginner death traps. I made my lessons in game design and came up with a design that I am now very confident in to. I am sure it will be a success, at least I am sure I can finish the first release.

A Game or Simulation project like yours is so difficult and complicated in programming that i had no idea where to start.

I have of course design documents and spec lists and a road map that will tell you what you need to do and of course a new artist have my full guide. So no one who comes to the team will need to worry about not knowing what he is supposed to do. I am not letting the people sitting alone. We work in a very close relation.

After all, the models and gfx should be historic correct in every part and that is my problem. Because I'm not a technicain or somthing else. I'm a hobby artist - not more.

You seem to understand very well what we need. But the important thing for an artist that comes to us is that he is willing to improve. If you are not willing to improve you might be wrong in game development anyway. This is especially true for IUF. We dwell very deep into the subject and the results that comes from it are wonderfull!

We also have very concrete commercial goals but even if we wouldn't reach them we would do it anyway because we love the subject!!!

We LONG for the right platform that satisfies our hard core longings. We are after all interest driven in the first place. The commercial stuff comes in second place for us. This is the attitude that creates unique and great games. And this is also a prerequisit for commercial success isn't it ?

Work on a concept that works, even if it takes long. Better to work a long time on a project that succeeds at the end than many smaller ones that goes down the drain, imo.

We are still very few but we are a very rare bunch with rare qualities. Our biggest asset is our dedication and almost infinite stamina.

Especially in game development you need a long breath.

I certainly appreciate your pragmatism, you look for a MANAGABLE and ACHIEVABLE project, with an forseeable release date. This is why you would look for small projects.

I feel being just an artist is the wrong position for you in this porjects. In my opinion YOU should be the project leader and project owner, and owner of the code. YOU should decide who should be taken into the team and who not. So if the programmer goes away then you contract another one and push it through the finish line. Or at least add a clause in the contract that carries over the ownership of the code to you in the case the coder gives up before the project is finished. This way you can continue with another coder when the old one drops out. You get the idea ?

You can't depend on others. He who counts on others turns up to be counted out. If you want the guarenty that the project gets finished you need the full control , you need full responsebility and you need redundancy. That means if the coder drops out go to the blitz3D forum make a job offer and contract another one.

YOU have to be the garantee that the project will be completed. Cause ther is no other guarantee!

If it can work out somehow then THIS way. I have yet to finish my own project but you maybe notice that I did my homeworks. I can only say learn from the mistakes of others. You don't need to repeat the sad history a second time.

If I listen to you and see your stamina I see you might be the right guy for the leading position.

But back to my offer. So if you are happy with any project as long as they are small than you are indeed not the right guy for us. I indeed look for people who do not scare away from the level of detail we go into but for people who actually feel attracted by it!!!

I look for people who would be happy to get an opportunity to dwell deep into the subject. So I look for people who are not happy with just any project that works but for people who are looking particularly for a project like this, people who have the right appreciation for the chance they get with it. Basically for people who have waited for this maybe for a long time.

I look for people who are haunted by the same idea like we are and give them an opportunity to actually do something for it. So our project is very idea and spirit driven.

You ask for the prototypes of the projects. They are all running. For example the strategy game: Frontlines - Operation Iraqi Freedom was in Beta.
All projects are contracted with a written agreement hedged. This includes the code as well as the graphics. Our focus has always been commercially and therefore I can not offer demos or parts of the projects. I have only compiled code, no source.

Yes yes, but you have played all of this demos, right ?

And besides that, so you are doing a project with someone who cancels them in a state like beta and then just go to the next one, with the same guy ?

How comes he starts a new project with you although he do not have time/interest to finish the last one ?

Ah,

I just found this forum & this thread by chance & what a pity to loose such a promising looking project. But this is how it goes sometimes & I can speak of my personal experience too since I was onboard project Sealords almost two years when she was cancelled.

But anyhow as I want to express my condolences I also vouch for some of the speech my buddy Deamon just gave. I have worked on few mods before & then on a full commercial project. After that I signed to IUF. What this project has under the hood is something different from anything I have experienced before. It’s not the looks at least for some time now but rather the approach to develop a product which just plain & simple makes sense with a small team like ours.

I’ve been onboard IUF a little less than a year now & I already have almost all the tools I can imagine needing to work as a sound engineer for the project. Also I already know that the future team members & artists will receive same treatment & dedication so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best without day by day access to game source. I think the time is ripe to an 3D artist to step in & as we do work on 1:1 basis, the first one in can actually participate on creating all the needed tools for his job. You just tell what you need & at the end you shall receive full independence if that is what you seek & if your personality fits that well into ours that we should be able to trust you with this kind of freedom.

As I see it we are looking for talented part timers or full timers (I am talking about the time you can spend in a week to work) who are somewhat tired of the games today & want something different or more & who just won’t give up since they know how the perfect game experience should be or are just disappointed how shallow & commercial the games of today end up. We do what we do because we love doing it & hopefully that dedication will end up on the product as well. I know the whole scope of the task is all but insurmountable but we don’t feel the burden since we play around a lot & the clever design approach of our product gives us as much satisfaction if not more than the actual finished product that one day shall receive full attention of the gaming community.

I think it’s time to go showcasing

[Deamon]

DJ, thanks for the introduction. I would like to highlight certain aspects.

Originally Posted by DJ Funk

who are somewhat tired of the games today & want something different or more

This is certainly the biggest motivation for people who come to the IUF core team. This project was born from the dissatisfaction, disillusioning and also disappointment of what the commercial games have delivered so far. We want a game that goes deep into the subject and gives you all possebilities to deal with it practically. But there is much more to it.

We also have concrete commercial ambitions but in the first place it is a labour of love and the commercial interests are subordinated to this love. In no way should the commercial ambitions harm the idea and spirit that is behind the project. That means we do not have a dead line. But we will release it only when the development goals for a targeted release are met.

However I also catered the commercial interests as well with a clear and as I believe clever plan. The whole development process is envisioned and mapped. I was breeding on this plan for several years and at the end came up with what I think is the best possible solution for us.

The point of this plan is to shorten up the development till the first commercia release without shorting it up, so to say. I found a solution to reduce the development time to something forseeable and manageable without sacrifice the targeted level of detail. But it's certainly a bold approach as well.

& who just won’t give up since they know how the perfect game experience should be or are just disappointed how shallow & commercial the games of today end up.

We are definitely a restless bunch. There is basically no naval game out there that satisfys us. We have a very clear vision and we also know how to get there. It will surely still takes its time but we have a basic game in place which seem to be appealing and very promesing even in its infant state, at least to thous who have or discoverd the interest in this subject. IUF certainly helps with that cause it confronts you practically with subjects that were not treated with this attention or never treated at all.

I think it’s time to go showcasing

What do you mean ?

[Sung]

Thats sound all good and hopefully, but i think for myself that there is not really a chance, that you will finish sometimes with the project.
You wrote that your team is developing the game a couple of years. Which technical stand is the engine right no? In some years we have the next OS Standard, 64bit?

I’m no expert at this but I’ll give it a go

I think the point to this is that the more time passes the more features we will be able to incorporate. Since computers will only grow more powerful we are kind of happy to pass the time. Also I sense that the open source engine we use is still a beta & will only get better over time. For example we just got an important update from the devs & we now do things that weren’t possible only couple of months back. I also think we will eventually support many OS’s & for the graphics you already have DirectX & OpenGL support. Since the engine is developed elsewhere we’re kind of off the hook keeping ourselves seaworthy & we only need to make sure the graphics are up to par when the bulk of the stuff is done.

How do you judge if a game is outdated anyway? Isn’t it fair to say that any game is measured by its looks? Features themselves don’t gather age IMO. Ok, now if we make sure the graphics keep up with time & keep piling up the features isn’t it fair to say that the product will only grow better over time like a good wine?

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Sung

but i think for myself that there is not really a chance, that you will finish sometimes with the project.

Hmm, what are you basing your estimation on ?

Actually I can understand you skepticism. But of course you do not know what you are up to here. You do not know us well enough, you don't quite know of what steel we are made and you don't know my plan of how the goal is supposed to be achieved. Actually everything works according to the plan, everything works out so far as envisioned. Actually I feel almost proud when I see that the future turns out so far just as I have predicted it.

I of course have also expected that people will doubt in this project untill it reaches the critical develpoment state where it becomes an undeniable reality.

And even if, I still have a backup plan for the case everything should go down the drain. If you would have seen my road map and design documents you would have realised that I am extremely well prepared for this task and determined to death to carry it out. This is what it takes to pull out an ambitious indi project. The plan is yet pretty bold and may contain some temporal risks also because the concept is a novum in naval warfare games but else it is fool proofen. The plan is so simple, clear and genius, it must work out, hense my determination.

But it started out indeed rather slow. I was unexperienced and was new to all of this engines. But then I got better, got more productive and also invested more time. Since this year I spend 200h in average per month on the project. And still our potential just begins to enfold itself. Oerall I am since almost 5 years on this project and all the time it got only better and better. And I still haven't hit my limit. I feel I will become even much more productive. The more competent I get the faster it goes.

2008 is so far the best year, for us, full of excitement. Most excitement comes from recent progresses and how well things start to go for us and how nice the sim start to turn out. Everything is so fresh new and innovative, it bears little similarities to other projects.

But yet I would say the development state is still infant. Only in 2-3 years we will be in a truly advanced development state.

Anyway I am confident that I will have more luck than you had, cause I am in full control of the project

The advantage I have is that when someone leaves the team( what will always happens once in a while ) I do not need to abandone it. Right now I fill the prototype with lots of place holders and when a new artis for example enters the team he start the game and immediately see what he can do.

You wrote that your team is developing the game a couple of years.

Soon it will be 2 years. If you count only the time since the development on the actual game has started in turms of coding.

Which technical stand is the engine right no?

pre-alpha

In some years we have the next OS Standard, 64bit?

Fine, that means IUF will run even faster

I embrace all performance boosts.

[Sung]

I made a vid of the currant status.
Hope you enjoy it.



cya
Sung

[Deamon]

Neat Sung, neat!

That makes appetite for more! So you are still looking for a way to finish that project ?

Did you got hold of the code after all ?