Wuhan virus 2020 - Page 90

Onkel Neal · 03-16-20, 10:45 PM

Ok, I acknowledge you have experience with respirators, I also have from working in chemical plants. Many years of training and use. I am not saying I am right, just I disagree that they are not effective if used properly. You are correct, the filters have a limited use life. Still, as I pointed out, you better believe the medic that assists you when you have coronavirus is wearing something to protect him/herself. Don't you agree?

Skybird · 03-16-20, 10:47 PM

Even an ordinary textile provides you some filterin, and shielding against sputum. Its just that the filtering effect might be extremely low. But when you are desperate, you try what you can and is available.

Craving for perfection should not stop using what is available, ETS

Packs with three ffp3 filters costed around25 euros a year ago. I bought several ones. I did not expect to ever need them...

Wet filters widen the openings between fibres, so that bugs slip through, and caught bugs from before get released, increasing their saturation in the aerosol. Thats why wet filters must be replaced. They can start to enrich breathing with bugs!

The biggest concern currently is the corona virus. But even it does not live forever on surfaces and in tissues. Used filters can breed bacteria, however. Multiuse filters must be stored open and dry, therefore. Virusses can not multiply themselves like bacteria, they need to enter organic cells for that.

You do not want to wear an ffp3 for hours during sport. That it hinders free breathing and reduces oygene per breath, can be very easily felt.

Wear whatever you have when you enter crowds, rooms with many people, shops. Get it off once you are out of the contaminated situation. A mask like you can use several times, but do never let it become wet, keep it unsealed so that it can dry and chsnge the filter after some time. Do not use it forever.

Use some common sense

ET2SN · 03-16-20, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Ok, I acknowledge you have experience with respirators, I also have from working in chemical plants. Many years of training and use. I am not saying I am right, just I disagree that they are not effective if used properly. You are correct, the filters have a limited use life. Still, as I pointed out, you better believe the medic that assists you when you have coronavirus is wearing something to protect him/herself. Don't you agree?

No problem, I'm right but I'm wrong.

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus. That's how they work. You'll either catch a mild form of it and feel like crap for a while before you recover, or you'll get sick enough to spend some time in a hospital, or you'll get the vaccine once it becomes available- but no matter what, you WILL catch this virus.

Unless you live on a small island with a small population and no imports or tourists. Just stay away from the bats.

Skybird · 03-16-20, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

No problem, I'm right but I'm wrong.

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus. That's how they work. You'll either catch a mild form of it and feel like crap for a while before you recover, or you'll get sick enough to spend some time in a hospital, or you'll get the vaccine once it becomes available- but no matter what, you WILL catch this virus.

Unless you live on a small island with a small population and no imports or tourists. Just stay away from the bats.

That is correct, absolutely. But you do not want to get it NOW. No cures. Hositals taken out and ICUs not available. 15 percent or more catching it require hospitalization. 5 % or so get critical. Average time in ICU and on ventilstors is18 days!!!

You cannot avoid getting it. But you want not to get it now. Thats why i want to delay my turn. Best it would be i do not get the bug, but a shot.

Thats the whole reason behind Flatten The Curve. To ease pressure on the system and keep it operational. Else the dying in big numbers begins. Due to this bug and due to other deseases and accidents that the overwhelmed system cannot cope witb any longer.

So do your share. Delay. Help flatten that damn curve. Dont become a spreader yourself. This is no harmless flu. Thid thing is fast, and kills.

ET2SN · 03-16-20, 11:32 PM

I already take a medicine that goofs with my immune system- on purpose.

If anyone gets to panic, I should get head-of-the-line privileges.

But I'm OK with it. I've already dealt with a couple of viruses since last Fall and I'm still here. Yes, this one is new and it will be nasty at first. Kinda. We think?

That's the big issue, the unknown part.
Hopefully, the planet learns something new.

Traveller · 03-17-20, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease.

Actually, I learned that by living in Japan for several years and visiting various ports in Asia.

WRONG.

According to the CDC, while N95 masks are ideal for medical workers, surgical masks do offer almost the same amount of protection from coronavirus infection in high-risk environments.

Quote:

The CDC guidance said the changes were prompted by the shortages. Surgical face masks will block the respiratory droplets produced by patients who cough or sneeze, which is the primary way the virus is spread.

During the height of flu season over the course of four years, researchers studied flu-infection rates among health care workers at seven U.S. medical centers. Some workers were randomly assigned to wear N95 respirators and others surgical masks. The two groups showed no significant difference in flu infection rates, according to the study, which was published in September in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...outputType=amp

Catfish · 03-17-20, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

SF Bay Area goes into voluntary lockdown tomorrow. Home sweet home. There was already a marked reduction in traffic today anyway.
https://www.businessinsider.com/san-...ay-area-2020-3

I wonder when this happens here. Hope you are doing well, wishing you all the best.

ET2SN · 03-17-20, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

You are so full of it.

Sez you.

All I'm saying is that Asian populations tend to have much higher densities than western cultures (there are a lot more people living very close to each other). People who are sick are expected to wear a mask so they don't spread it to the rest of the town, or the subway, or the bus. Its considered polite to not infect your neighbors.

It also gives your neighbors a head's up that you aren't feeling well but you still need to get stuff done, so they can stay out of your way.

If you really want to wear a mask and freak people out, make sure you do it right. Otherwise, you'll still get the flu. Make sure the mask hurts slightly (or at least it should feel uncomfortable). This shows you the mask is making a good seal against your face. Make sure you wear it only for as long as the filter is designed to last. That will usually mean doing some power shopping, you want to move quickly to minimize the time you need to wear it. Oh, try not to sweat while you're moving quickly. Sweat is not good for the mask and will tend to make it fit loose, which defeats the purpose of why you're wearing it. Make sure you're wearing disposable gloves (for Pete's sake) and some form of goggles. Don't forget to cover your ears, btw, because we're talking basic Contamination 101.

Is this starting to sound ridiculous yet?

If you really want to wear a mask, do yourself a big favor and get trained on how and WHEN to wear it by someone who's been certified to teach you. Otherwise, all you're going to do is possibly harm yourself or some innocent by-standers.

Fifi · 03-17-20, 03:25 AM

Ok, here in France we have reached same level as Italy...today at 12H, everybody must stay at home...for 15 days minimum. Only replenishing for food is allowed. And some essential workers. Army is requisitioned to help health people.

Traveller · 03-17-20, 04:09 AM

Fifi, it's good to hear from someone in France. Please stay safe and keep us updated on your situation!

Fifi · 03-17-20, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

Fifi, it's good to hear from someone in France. Please stay safe and keep us updated on your situation!

For the moment, people are ... kind of mad.
Went for food this morning, and couldn’t believe my eyes. They are buying tons of food and stuff even knowing supermarkets will stay open! Like if they are making their last buying

Hopefully we are living in a pretty safe virus area. Not that much people infected here. But...

Hitman · 03-17-20, 04:44 AM

You are starting to see now what happened here until yesterday, right during and after the lockdown. If the experience gained here applies, don't go to the supermarket when the crazyness breaks out as it is full of people and God knows how many infected. Today the supermarkets are nearly empty after everybody rushed to fill the fridge and now they have no more space for storing goods and won't come out in days until they start depleting them. And better even, supermarket employees are allowing people to enter only once another customer exits, which ensures there is always a low number inside. That makes you shop quicker and is better for everyone. BUT once you can start shopping normally, start building up a bigger reserve of goods, as the supply chain might eventually see interruptions sooner or later, even if temporary ones. Plan wisely, shop wisely, consume wisely.

If we can go by what happened in China after the lockdown, we will need like 3 months to have things under control, and some additional period of exercising lots of caution until being able to say we are already past it. China had the advantage over us of being a dictatorship with well disciplined population, but the disadvantage of the massive size of the cities and the crowded nature of the small homes and spaces. I would expect that smaller towns are free of this all way before big cities in EU and the US, so maybe at some point only those big cities remain locked for extra time.

Traveller · 03-17-20, 05:09 AM

Fifi, crazy stuff. Seems like many people are scared, especially those who didn't prepare in advance.

German foreign minister tells citizens to stay home after 1,174 new cases reported on Monday.

Quote:

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas urged German citizens to stay home today, after a dramatic leap in the country's coronavirus cases.

This comes after the country reported 1,174 new infections within 24 hours between Sunday and Monday -- its largest single-day rise in cases.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-n...hnk/index.html

Jimbuna · 03-17-20, 05:48 AM

The UK government will unveil more financial plans to help the economy during the coronavirus outbreak, after the prime minister announced unprecedented peacetime measures.

Boris Johnson has urged everyone to avoid unnecessary social contacts, to work from home where possible, and to stay away from pubs and restaurants.

People in at-risk groups will be asked within days to stay home for 12 weeks.

Firms warned the virus restrictions could put them out of business.

The number of people who have died with the virus in the UK has reached 55.

More than 1,500 people have tested positive for the virus in the UK - but the actual number of cases is estimated to be between 35,000 and 50,000.

The UK's shift in strategy comes as Europe plans to ban all non-essential travel throughout the Schengen free-travel zone, as more countries close their borders.

In Boris Johnson's first daily update on Monday he acknowledged the economy was facing "a severe blow" because of the virus.

The key new measures he announced included:

Everyone should avoid gatherings with friends and family, as well as large gatherings and crowded places, such as pubs, clubs and theatres.

People should avoid non-essential travel and work from home if they can.

All "unnecessary" visits to friends and relatives in care homes should cease.

People should only use the NHS "where we really need to" - and can reduce the burden on workers by getting advice on the NHS website where possible.

By next weekend, those with the most serious health conditions must be "largely shielded from social contact for around 12 weeks"

If one person in any household has a persistent cough or fever, everyone living there must stay at home for 14 days.

Those people should, if possible, avoid leaving the house "even to buy food or essentials" - but they may leave the house "for exercise and, in that case, at a safe distance from others"

Schools will not be closed for the moment.

Under the guidance, people who should be "particularly stringent" in minimising their social contact are:

People over the age of 70

Other adults who would normally be advised to have the flu vaccine (such as those with chronic diseases)

Pregnant women.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51920444

ikalugin · 03-17-20, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The disruptions in America, the social and political ones, might be much more severe. Maybe they see Trump and his threat to chinese economic plans as the bigger problem than ther current losses.

Do I think this scenario is likely? I give 5-15% probability, somewhere in that range. Their readiness to abuse and mass-destroy their own population if it serves the gfat cat'S interests, they have demonstrated often enough. After all, their party dictatorship makes them a feudal society, still.

I think the probability is way below that. But we are all entitled to being wrong.

03-16-20, 10:47 PM	#1337
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,515 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Even an ordinary textile provides you some filterin, and shielding against sputum. Its just that the filtering effect might be extremely low. But when you are desperate, you try what you can and is available. Craving for perfection should not stop using what is available, ETS Packs with three ffp3 filters costed around25 euros a year ago. I bought several ones. I did not expect to ever need them... Wet filters widen the openings between fibres, so that bugs slip through, and caught bugs from before get released, increasing their saturation in the aerosol. Thats why wet filters must be replaced. They can start to enrich breathing with bugs! The biggest concern currently is the corona virus. But even it does not live forever on surfaces and in tissues. Used filters can breed bacteria, however. Multiuse filters must be stored open and dry, therefore. Virusses can not multiply themselves like bacteria, they need to enter organic cells for that. You do not want to wear an ffp3 for hours during sport. That it hinders free breathing and reduces oygene per breath, can be very easily felt. Wear whatever you have when you enter crowds, rooms with many people, shops. Get it off once you are out of the contaminated situation. A mask like you can use several times, but do never let it become wet, keep it unsealed so that it can dry and chsnge the filter after some time. Do not use it forever. Use some common sense __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-16-20 at 11:10 PM.

03-17-20, 03:25 AM	#1344
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 5,741 Downloads: 456 Uploads: 0	Ok, here in France we have reached same level as Italy...today at 12H, everybody must stay at home...for 15 days minimum. Only replenishing for food is allowed. And some essential workers. Army is requisitioned to help health people. __________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/gvwii...N_V5.7.7z/file

03-17-20, 04:44 AM	#1347
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,099 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	You are starting to see now what happened here until yesterday, right during and after the lockdown. If the experience gained here applies, don't go to the supermarket when the crazyness breaks out as it is full of people and God knows how many infected. Today the supermarkets are nearly empty after everybody rushed to fill the fridge and now they have no more space for storing goods and won't come out in days until they start depleting them. And better even, supermarket employees are allowing people to enter only once another customer exits, which ensures there is always a low number inside. That makes you shop quicker and is better for everyone. BUT once you can start shopping normally, start building up a bigger reserve of goods, as the supply chain might eventually see interruptions sooner or later, even if temporary ones. Plan wisely, shop wisely, consume wisely. If we can go by what happened in China after the lockdown, we will need like 3 months to have things under control, and some additional period of exercising lots of caution until being able to say we are already past it. China had the advantage over us of being a dictatorship with well disciplined population, but the disadvantage of the massive size of the cities and the crowded nature of the small homes and spaces. I would expect that smaller towns are free of this all way before big cities in EU and the US, so maybe at some point only those big cities remain locked for extra time. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

03-17-20, 05:48 AM	#1349
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,284 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The UK government will unveil more financial plans to help the economy during the coronavirus outbreak, after the prime minister announced unprecedented peacetime measures. Boris Johnson has urged everyone to avoid unnecessary social contacts, to work from home where possible, and to stay away from pubs and restaurants. People in at-risk groups will be asked within days to stay home for 12 weeks. Firms warned the virus restrictions could put them out of business. The number of people who have died with the virus in the UK has reached 55. More than 1,500 people have tested positive for the virus in the UK - but the actual number of cases is estimated to be between 35,000 and 50,000. The UK's shift in strategy comes as Europe plans to ban all non-essential travel throughout the Schengen free-travel zone, as more countries close their borders. In Boris Johnson's first daily update on Monday he acknowledged the economy was facing "a severe blow" because of the virus. The key new measures he announced included: Everyone should avoid gatherings with friends and family, as well as large gatherings and crowded places, such as pubs, clubs and theatres. People should avoid non-essential travel and work from home if they can. All "unnecessary" visits to friends and relatives in care homes should cease. People should only use the NHS "where we really need to" - and can reduce the burden on workers by getting advice on the NHS website where possible. By next weekend, those with the most serious health conditions must be "largely shielded from social contact for around 12 weeks" If one person in any household has a persistent cough or fever, everyone living there must stay at home for 14 days. Those people should, if possible, avoid leaving the house "even to buy food or essentials" - but they may leave the house "for exercise and, in that case, at a safe distance from others" Schools will not be closed for the moment. Under the guidance, people who should be "particularly stringent" in minimising their social contact are: People over the age of 70 Other adults who would normally be advised to have the flu vaccine (such as those with chronic diseases) Pregnant women. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51920444 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-16-20, 10:45 PM	#1336
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Ok, I acknowledge you have experience with respirators, I also have from working in chemical plants. Many years of training and use. I am not saying I am right, just I disagree that they are not effective if used properly. You are correct, the filters have a limited use life. Still, as I pointed out, you better believe the medic that assists you when you have coronavirus is wearing something to protect him/herself. Don't you agree?

03-16-20, 11:32 PM	#1340
ET2SN ET2/SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,520 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	I already take a medicine that goofs with my immune system- on purpose. If anyone gets to panic, I should get head-of-the-line privileges. But I'm OK with it. I've already dealt with a couple of viruses since last Fall and I'm still here. Yes, this one is new and it will be nasty at first. Kinda. We think? That's the big issue, the unknown part. Hopefully, the planet learns something new.

03-17-20, 04:09 AM	#1345
Traveller Captain Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 513 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Fifi, it's good to hear from someone in France. Please stay safe and keep us updated on your situation!