Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over.

I have gotten a lot of PMs and email from people who feel the same as you. People who are getting some enjoyment out of a flawed game are getting sick of trolls and griefers.


However, what can we do about it? It's pretty hard to weed out people who post simply to add more grief to an already miserable situation. You can place them on your ignore list. You can report them if they are topic spamming--this is a forum for SH5, not DRM philosphies or game flaming-- and a moderator can roll their post into an existing grief thread. If they get enough complaints against them, we can deny their access to this forum. Any other ideas are welcome.


Oh, I know, someone is going to hate on me over this, but before you do, think about what we are trying to do here: run a nice, relaxed place for reasonable people to talk about submarine games. People who do not like SH5 should frequent the SH3 or Sh4 forums, whatever game is interesting to you. I say this, not out of any malice, not at all. Just think about what you are doing to this forum.

Come on, man.

[Reece]

OSP/DRM sucks big time! The many bugs in SH5 sucks! UBI sucks for releasing it in this state!
Don't you folks agree?


PS. A little fun is good for the heart!!

[mcarlsonus]

"UBI sucks for releasing it in this state!
Don't you folks agree?"

Yes I agree, Reece, but as said in the old comic strip, Pogo, "We have met the enemy and they are us!" In terms of the amount of effort - or lack of same - Ubi obviously put into the primary SH5 development effort that resulted in the version on the market today, one can reasonably conclude that after years of witnessing mods make their previous attempts more usable, stable, and enjoyable, Ubi adopted the attitude that they could feel free to charge money for incomplete efforts and expect their, "unpaid talent," a.k.a., "modders," to take over the task of primary development as well. Must be a valid business plan because throughout this venue, one can witness numerous references to, "let the modders make it the game it should have been in the first place!"

Keep on spending your hard-earned dinero and drinking the Kool-Aid, O ye of diminished expectations!

[Kresge]

Man, if I could rent a magic broken car....

It would be nice if people had enough common sense not keep starting new anti-DRM threads and just discuss the issue in the pile that are already here. But hey, it's the new internet style.

[Heretic]

The constant attacks and negativity has done more to sap my enthusiasm then any actual problems with the game. Why bother modding a game that so many people are actively trying to kill? I really should just stay away from this side of the forum.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by John Channing

So, Great Master, allow me if you will to ask again the part of the question that your magnificent revelations seemed to overlook.

Where are the independent Sub-sim producers? What is the name?

Maybe they are all having a drink with East? Or Jamie? Or Carl?

JCC

Great Master? Hmmm, I like that! Thank you!! ...And henceforth, you may be my affectionate Little Grasshopper!



As for the independent Sub-sim producers...we do not need any right now. We really don't. There is no current shortage of submarine simulations, as is evidenced by the still highly popular SH3 and SH4. How many submarine simulations do you need anyway?

Should we all hold our collective breaths and pout until we get some guarantee that we will get a new sub-sim every couple of years? Perhaps it is this very expectation that has led to the demise of the study simulation. Why is it that you feel it is imperitave that someone else be working on something right now, for fear of never seeing a future sub-sim ever.

I got my first Nintendo Entertainment System for one thing: a simple game called Silent Service. That came out four years after I got essentially the same game for IBM PC in '85...except it had about 4 additional colors. At the time, it was cutting-edge software...far surpassing my PT109 on my Amiga or Tandy or Chinese Abacus or whatever I was using before. It was YEARS before another game came along, and up until that time, I was happy. Ubisoft did not even exist at that time...and did I care? No! because I did not have a time machine to tell me that down the pike would be greats like Aces of the Deep, Silent Service II, Das Boot, Great Naval Battles, and some obscure subsim by an upstart company that nobody had ever heard of called Aeon Electronic Entertainment and published by a company that no longer exists called Strategic Simulations (SSI). That subsim was Silent Hunter, and at the time the great and powerful OZ that we refer to as Ubisoft was little more than a distribution warehouse in France with no products of its own.


Who is to say what upstart company is waiting out there to make the next generation of sub simulations? Perhaps the future CEO is starting high school next year...or maybe he is learning his ABC's. Maybe he is a retired sailor who is attending his fathers funeral next week...a father who served on a fleetboat or planted a seed of honor on his son that may someday grow into the simulation that we all wish for. All unlikely, but the point is that we do not know any more than I knew about SH3 or GWX back in 1985 and 1989.





Patience, my little grasshopper, patience...


SH3 and SH4 have many years left in them, as may SH5 if all works out. What happens after that is anyones guess, but history has shown that it will be likely better than anything before if done by a new and motivated publisher/developer, and likely it will be very very different than what you or I can even imagine right now.

[mcarlsonus]

Originally Posted by Heretic

The constant attacks and negativity has done more to sap my enthusiasm then any actual problems with the game. Why bother modding a game that so many people are actively trying to kill? I really should just stay away from this side of the forum.

or, conversely, why bother modding a game when said, "modding" includes the manufacturer's expectation that you do the, "grunt work" for free while THEY charge YOU money for the privilege?

You should be feeling a bit, "USED" at this juncture as it certainly appears SH5, as opposed to SH3 or 4, represents a sea-change (if a pun, then intended) in Ubi's attitude toward the Subsim Community and the talented modders who do so much for nothing more than the Community's appreciation, respect, and accolades. Note use of the term, "Subsim Community," as that's key! I have NOT included Ubi as a part of this Community as it appears they see modders as nothing more than unpaid volunteer labor whom they are more than willing to exploit - while, as mentioned, they continue to charge US money for THEIR lack of effort!

Metaphorically: As soon as you send ME money for the purchase of parts and send ME even MORE money for installation of those parts necessary to fix your broken Ubi car, I'll be more than happy to come over and watch YOU buy the parts (but I'll keep the money you sent me earlier) and promise to enjoy watching YOU installing same (but, again, I'll keep the money you sent me earlier). And, of course, I won't say, "thank you" for the bucks nor the afternoon's entertainment...

Originally Posted by mcarlsonus

or, conversely, why bother modding a game...

the same logic applies to dating,

why buy dinner and drinks and get all dressed up unless you get a commitment in advance that you will get great sex?

you do things in the "hope" that in the end the eventual reward will be as good as you hoped for.

you mod the game in the "hope" that you can make it much better then it is on its own.

sometimes the sex is worth it but sometimes it isnt but you still keep on trying dont you?

well sometimes the game becomes great if modded enough and thats why we keep modding games that to be honest are stinkers as released but they are still all we have so its this or nothing.

only when you have some other choice can you have any real say in product developement by giving the better company your purchase. if there is no competition then you really have no voice that will be listened to and protests will only achieve the ending of support for a game they dont think enough of to put more effort into it then they did.

thats pretty much how it is and i dont like it either but if you take the emotion out of it you can see im not taking sides here but just trying to lay it out there in plain english that it is what it is, take it or leave it.

[IanC]

Good points Placoderm. People need to get a little perspective, Ubisoft is not the end-all be-all of subsims.

[vonTorpitz]

Originally Posted by Placoderm

Who is to say what upstart company is waiting out there to make the next generation of sub simulations? Perhaps the future CEO is starting high school next year...or maybe he is learning his ABC's. Maybe he is a retired sailor who is attending his fathers funeral next week...a father who served on a fleetboat or planted a seed of honor on his son that may someday grow into the simulation that we all wish for.

Maybe, he/she is reading this thread right now.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by mcarlsonus

or, conversely, why bother modding a game when said, "modding" includes the manufacturer's expectation that you do the, "grunt work" for free while THEY charge YOU money for the privilege?

Because some people have fun with the game and want to mod out of a sense of wanting to have even more fun with it, rather than some sense of duty.

I agree with Heretic. Some people need to get over themselves. It's a goddam computer game, not some moralistic last stand of consumer freedom.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by severniae

Ladies and Gentleman,

I must say that to be honest I'm getting a rather a lot fed up of constantly seeing threads full of people having constant arguments, or moaning about Silent Hunter 5.

This is easy to fix.

Don't read them.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Sev, you make very good points. It's pretty sad when people who declare they have zero interest in a game take trolling to a whole new level. I'll never understand why some people will lurk in a forum for a game they do not have and wait for opportunities to make a post that essentially negative. Over and over.

We have to own the game, in order to express our displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5?
Neal as the owner of this forum I think it's important to understand the point of view of the posters who don't have the game, but still want to voice their disappointment. In fact, it's their disappointment that is the reason why they don't own the game to begin with!
If SH5 was a good game, the forums would be full of (mostly) positive threads. But instead we get what we have now. I don't think anybody is happy with the situation. If I had a magic wand, believe me I'd want SH5 to be the next Aces of the Deep or an improved SH3... *daydreams*

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I agree with Heretic. Some people need to get over themselves. It's a goddam computer game, not some moralistic last stand of consumer freedom.

That's exactly what it is. Standing up against poor companies using poor policies aimed directly at us, the consumer. It's not the first to be boycotted for similar nonsense.

Whining about our whining hardly gives you any moral high ground, either.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by IanC

We have to own the game, in order to express our displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5?
Neal as the owner of this forum I think it's important to understand the point of view of the posters who don't have the game, but still want to voice their disappointment. In fact, it's their disappointment that is the reason why they don't own the game to begin with!
If SH5 was a good game, the forums would be full of (mostly) positive threads. But instead we get what we have now. I don't think anybody is happy with the situation. If I had a magic wand, believe me I'd want SH5 to be the next Aces of the Deep or an improved SH3... *daydreams*

No, you have to own the game, in order to express your displeasure/frustration with the course Ubisoft took with SH5, but the displeasure has been exoressed and voiced, way past the point of being productive, don't you think?

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

That's exactly what it is. Standing up against poor companies using poor policies aimed directly at us, the consumer. It's not the first to be boycotted for similar nonsense.

Whining about our whining hardly gives you any moral high ground, either.

No one is looking for moral ground, looking for a place to discuss the game in good company without the same constant negativity. If we were at a party and there were a few guys always shouting and yelling about how much they hate the music, christ, kick them into the pool.