[REL] TMT v2 (Tribute to Manual Targeting-version 2)

[makman94]

Originally Posted by rs77

ok, I found a problem, it's not with TMT but with original B&D mod actually

Rubini put ships deeper into the water, obj_Hydro\Surfaced\draught parameter was modified for each ship

unforutanately .cfg files for the ships were not corrected, so now let's take Nelson as example:

- modded .sim file says it's surfaced draught is 12,23m (original 11,035m)
- .cfg file says it's draught is 11,04

shooting magnetic torp at 12m according to information from recognition manual would be probably result in torp bouncing of rounded hull..

looks like all .cfg should be corrected to

be carefull here Rs77,
the 'TMT mod' is about mast and length values only.draft values is one ...other story.....
it was mentioned at the development thread 'mast+lengths adjustments' but the original draft values never had been checked.this subject needs ...investigation

[karamazovnew]

Grats on finishing it. By the way, rethorical question, I still can use the LifeBoats and Debris mod by Rubini as long as I don't use the optional right?

[makman94]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Grats on finishing it. By the way, rethorical question, I still can use the LifeBoats and Debris mod by Rubini as long as I don't use the optional right?

exactly Karamazovnew! Any mod that is not conflict with the files of 'TMT mod' can be safely used

[Lopo]

Thank you Makman94 for your answer.
So I will uninstall STzSinkingShipFix 2.1 in order to fully enjoy your mod...

[TigerShark808]

I downloaded this MOD and when pulling up my scope and such (OLC GUI). I find that after Identifying the target I get the "Ship MANUAL" It shows me a "RED" line about where I guess the MASS=LENGTH should be.

Well the REDLINE is always a few meters above the booklet. Is this correct? Because I have experimented with it using stationary targets and I'm not sure I'm sold on this. My torps seem to detonate Just BEHIND the ship. In fact when I use the books measurements (not the REDLINE) I have gotten better results.?

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Lopo

Thank you Makman94 for your answer.
So I will uninstall STzSinkingShipFix 2.1 in order to fully enjoy your mod...

That's what I did. When I next go out on patrol I'll be watching to see whether Rubini's buoyancy and draught adjustments will make ships less (or more!) likely to sink in rough weather; it may be that STz's fix is not needed when using TMT (let's hope so).

[makman94]

Originally Posted by TigerShark808

I downloaded this MOD and when pulling up my scope and such (OLC GUI). I find that after Identifying the target I get the "Ship MANUAL" It shows me a "RED" line about where I guess the MASS=LENGTH------WHAT IS THIS ???? should be.

Well the REDLINE is always a few meters above the booklet----AGAIN..WHAT IS THIS ???. Is this correct? Because I have experimented with it using stationary targets and I'm not sure I'm sold on this. My torps seem to detonate Just BEHIND the ship. In fact when I use the books measurements (not the REDLINE) I have gotten better results.?

Hello TigerShark808,
i am realy trying to 'follow' you but i can't understand you.(look at the red letters)
if anyone understand TigerShark808 please ...proceed
if you mean by saying ''REDLINE is always a few meters above the booklet'' that redline is above the number at the vertical scale of recmanual then i must tell you that these numbers(at vertical scale) are ONLY eyes candies,they have NO USE at all.the red line is showing to you the spot of the ship that you must aim in order to get the distance.look at the following photo (recmanual is telling you that HMS Hood have mast=38.9 and its showing you what spot of ship to aim to get the distance):



these shots are made with the target moving at 8 knots (distance 2375m) with a gyroangle greater than 20 degrees:

[makman94]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

That's what I did. When I next go out on patrol I'll be watching to see whether Rubini's buoyancy and draught adjustments will make ships less (or more!) likely to sink in rough weather; it may be that STz's fix is not needed when using TMT (let's hope so).

hello OLC,
can you tell me please which one of these ships ( that STz's fix ) had the bigger 'problem' ?
(i have all the ships in test missions ,so i will set the weather parameter to 15m/sec and see if it will sink or not)
bye

[TigerShark808]

Originally Posted by makman94

Hello TigerShark808,
i am realy trying to 'follow' you but i can't understand you.(look at the red letters)
if anyone understand TigerShark808 please ...proceed
if you mean by saying ''REDLINE is always a few meters above the booklet'' that redline is above the number at the vertical scale of recmanual then i must tell you that these numbers(at vertical scale) are ONLY eyes candies,they have NO USE at all.the red line is showing to you the spot of the ship that you must aim in order to get the distance.look at the following photo (recmanual is telling you that HMS Hood have mast=38.9 and its showing you what spot of ship to aim to get the distance):



these shots are made with the target moving at 8 knots (distance 2375m) with a gyroangle greater than 20 degrees:

Im sorry..i did mean to type REDLINE not RED LETTERS. Sorry

As far as your exsplanation..I get it now.

Thank You very much.


EDIT: And what GUI are you using..because I'm using OLC MKIId and I don't see that little Note Pad nor the "GOLD HIGHLIGHTS" where the Ship Name,Torpedo Settings,Gyro Angle. And the stop watch in the upper left corner. Nice Look!

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello OLC,
can you tell me please which one of these ships ( that STz's fix ) had the bigger 'problem' ?
(i have all the ships in test missions ,so i will set the weather parameter to 15m/sec and see if it will sink or not)
bye

STz fixed the following ships:

NGRA_
NKC3
NKSQ_
NLOL
NLPL_
NLSQ_
NLST
NLUS_
NPPL_

For all I know the B&D mod may also fix them.

HTH
OLC

[Graf Paper]

They just might, olc. B&D does alter some of the same values as STZ's Sinking Ships Fix but my recollection was that STZ's mod was considered by many to be the better fix for the issue of smaller vessels sinking in rough seas. Of course, that has to be taken with a grain of salt because there's no way to know how many of those who had that opinion actually tried both mods for comparison.

I think the key values at play, with STZ'z mod, was the buoyancy and center of gravity. I don't think he altered the draught, specifically because it would have altered the targeting data for those vessels.

If B&D turns out not to offer the same benefits, then I suppose the two mods could be merged or else players will just have to live with choosing one or the other.

Honestly, I would rather have accurate targeting data than worrying myself over losing 3,000 (or less) BRT because some small merchant succumbed to the angry sea.

[makman94]

first the most important.

disable TMT and inside it open the data/sea/NCA_Averof/ and then open the NCA_Averof.cfg . change the length=185 to length=183. (it was made a stupid mistake to calculations,sorry about that).enable again the TMT and thats it!

now,about the sinking ships problem.
i checked all the ships that you mentioned OLC and we HAVE PROBLEM with NLPL (ocean liner) and with the NLST (landing ship tank )
all the others are doing just fine!
now,as i am not familiar with .sims files can somebody check if these sims for these two ships can be merged (in order to avoid adjusting them again) ??
also ,is that for sure that STz's fix's .sims for these two ships are ok,meaning that solving the problem? (where can be found this mod? )

ps:Graf Paper , its not big deal the solving of this issue and as it can be done then no need to worry about it any more .it will be fixed!

[makman94]

Originally Posted by TigerShark808

Im sorry..i did mean to type REDLINE not RED LETTERS. Sorry

As far as your exsplanation..I get it now.

Thank You very much.

You are wellcome

EDIT: And what GUI are you using..because I'm using OLC MKIId and I don't see that little Note Pad nor the "GOLD HIGHLIGHTS" where the Ship Name,Torpedo Settings,Gyro Angle. And the stop watch in the upper left corner. Nice Look!

the gui i am using is OLC's gui 127.about all the others you describe most of them are my mod called ''MANOS OPTICS-x15'' or ''MANOS OPTICS-x6''.
BUT these mods are made only for OLC's gui 127
bye

[Graf Paper]

I tried doing a search for Subtype Zero's mods in the downloads section. No results.

Trying a search by thread....

Here's the thread for his mod: [REL] STzSinkingShipsFix

Unfortunately, the file is no longer there when you click the download link. Let me see if I can upload it here to Subsim.

EDIT:
Got it uploaded here at Subsim for you, makman! I hope it helps you.

Download: STZ Sinking Ships Fix v2.1

[rs77]

as I understand all those mods:
- GWX 3.0 - positive buoyancy (surfaced displacement > mass)
- Rubini's B&D - neutral buoyancy (mass = 0, so mass = displacement) + put them deeper into water by increasing surfaced draught
- StzSinkingFix - more positive buoyancy than in GWX 3.0 for some ships

example NKSQ_:

1. in stock GWX 3.0 it has little positive buoyancy, mass = 1958,5; displacement = 1960,0

2. Rubini's B&D, mass = 0, displacement = 1960, according do S3D in this case game treats it as mass = displacement, so buoyancy is neutral

3. StzSinkingFix, mass = 1664, displacement = 1960, so we have more positive buoyancy than in original GWX 3.0 and much more than in B&D mod

so ships which have problems with sinking in heavy sea in GWX 3.0 will have much more problem with B&D mod

cheers