I finally bought it...

[FERdeBOER]

Last week I finally decided to buy this game. It was a tough decision for its high price, but I did it.
I've only had time to play it long yesterday and these are my first impressions:

But first, my background, so you can better understand my experience in this kind of games and why I say what I say:

- I'm mostly subsim player, SHI, AOD, SHII, SHIII, Red Storm Rising, Sub Command, Dangerous Waters... I like other sims, like Operation Flashpoint and mostly modern aircraft ones, but never had enough time to master them. I'm always back to the sea.

- As for strategy games, well, Civilization ones, Steel Panthers World at war, Hearts of Iron and, the most, Total War games.
I tried to play Harpoon many years ago; I was too young and didn't have the military knowledge I have now, nor the patience to learn the game, so I can't compare CA with it.

As you can see, I'm not an expert, but I'm an average military sims player.

Another important thing: the game price makes you look at it with sharp eyes, things that wouldn't be important in other situation become a HUGE issue here.

Here it goes:

1) Buy and download (digital version): ok. easy to do, fast to download. Install time a bit long but ok. The update message arrived and downloaded properly.

2) Manual... I don't understand why the "print version" has the dark background... ink waste, not going to print it. An epub version would be much appreciated so I could read it on my ebook reader (6'' is not enough for a pdf).
Is comprehensive, but not too deep. Some points would need a better explanation about why would you like to do something instead of just describing what buttons do.

3) The game itself. I've played the air attack tutorial and half of the submarine one.
In the air attack tutorial I received the message of several planes crashing because out of fuel... but they were supposed be back to base already and the icons disappeared (and by the way they turned back automatically).

3.1) Interface. Good, I like it apart from some things (later). I'm not having much problems finding things. The tutorial is well explained.
3.1.1) The icon set is what it is... but I missed the option of different ones. Yes, there's available to download one more clear for "non hardcore" but... here it comes, for the price, this should come by default. And no only two choices, but several.
3.1.2) Database. Big, full of data... too much... but lack of the basics. Why not photos? Or schemes, or drawings? I know you can download them separately but, yes, for the money...
I miss too a small description of the units and weapons to be able to use them better. A huge thing considering the size of the database? Yes, but for the money...
3.1.3) Log. Good, many details... too many. I would love an option of simplified log; I prefer a "Goblin3 hit by AA sidewinder missile" message, rather than the two lines full of details, but hard to read in the core of battle.
3.1.4) Window layout. Not bad, but I would like more modularity.

3.2) Sound. *cough* Well, there are some... and they do the job, but they are too few.
I would love some voices too. Today TTS is very common and with good quality. Having the option of receiving some useful messages via voice, kind of "Slighshot team take off", or "Sonar contact" would improve the game a lot, allow you to focus on other things and not have to look the log all the time.

3.3) Playing: Great. I liked it a lot. With the more "real" icon set the game seems more like a real battleground.
The submarine managing (my "field of expertise"), is at some points better than with DW in the way that you feel like a real sub commander just giving orders, the crew is competent and they don't run aground the sub even if you order a depth deeper than sea botton. Crew messages about contacts and status change are also great (although sometimes I receive too many "no change" messages). Reports of enemy flooding are also great (and a great lack in DW).

4) Overall: Great game, it really is. Full of details, deep, the whole world is your scenario... I've only scratch the surface of it.
What would I add? A dynamic campaign... is a MUST in any game than want to make the difference.
The creators of the game are always ready to answer and are very kind. Looks like they listen and are working fast on improving the game.

That said, again (sorry) for the money, it lacks in many aspects. For 40 or even 50€ I would say this game is perfect, for 78€ I'm afraid is not. If everything goes as the creators say, it will.

As a general and personal consideration, I would say that no computer game worth paying 80€... unless it's more than a computer game. This game has the possibility of being both a tactical (and even strategical) wargame and a commander simulator (thanks to micromanaging).
And with proper descriptions and photos in the database, also a military encyclopedia.

Reading it back it all seems negative, but I'm just pointing out the negative things. The overall experience is great. I would give it an 8.5/10.

I hope I explained good myself... and not bore you!!

[Zander]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

Last week I finally decided to buy this game. It was a tough decision for its high price, but I did it.
I've only had time to play it long yesterday and these are my first impressions:


As a general and personal consideration, I would say that no computer game worth paying 80€... unless it's more than a computer game. This game has the possibility of being both a tactical (and even strategical) wargame and a commander simulator (thanks to micromanaging).
And with proper descriptions and photos in the database, also a military encyclopedia.

Reading it back it all seems negative, but I'm just pointing out the negative things. The overall experience is great. I would give it an 8.5/10.

I hope I explained good myself... and not bore you!!

Good job and you did not come across as "negative", just honest.

[Herman]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

3) The game itself. I've played the air attack tutorial and half of the submarine one.
In the air attack tutorial I received the message of several planes crashing because out of fuel... but they were supposed be back to base already and the icons disappeared (and by the way they turned back automatically).

3.1) Interface. Good, I like it apart from some things (later). I'm not having much problems finding things. The tutorial is well explained.
3.1.1) The icon set is what it is... but I missed the option of different ones. Yes, there's available to download one more clear for "non hardcore" but... here it comes, for the price, this should come by default. And no only two choices, but several.
3.1.2) Database. Big, full of data... too much... but lack of the basics. Why not photos? Or schemes, or drawings? I know you can download them separately but, yes, for the money...
I miss too a small description of the units and weapons to be able to use them better. A huge thing considering the size of the database? Yes, but for the money...
3.1.3) Log. Good, many details... too many. I would love an option of simplified log; I prefer a "Goblin3 hit by AA sidewinder missile" message, rather than the two lines full of details, but hard to read in the core of battle.
3.1.4) Window layout. Not bad, but I would like more modularity.

[snip]

That said, again (sorry) for the money, it lacks in many aspects. For 40 or even 50€ I would say this game is perfect, for 78€ I'm afraid is not. If everything goes as the creators say, it will.

It seems as though we share many of the same thoughts and reservations. Welcome aboard, shipmate.

[Sunburn]

Welcome, and thank you for the honest feedback. This is exactly the kind of feedback we need to make the game even better. I will try to address some of your points with what we know about the present and future:

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

2) Manual... I don't understand why the "print version" has the dark background... ink waste, not going to print it. An epub version would be much appreciated so I could read it on my ebook reader (6'' is not enough for a pdf).
Is comprehensive, but not too deep. Some points would need a better explanation about why would you like to do something instead of just describing what buttons do.

I hear you on the manual; thankfully Matrix listened and they've provided a printer-friendly version, here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3418599

3) The game itself. I've played the air attack tutorial and half of the submarine one.
In the air attack tutorial I received the message of several planes crashing because out of fuel... but they were supposed be back to base already and the icons disappeared (and by the way they turned back automatically).

Spelk has posted a great walkthrough for the air tutorial, see here:
http://sugarfreegamer.com/?p=83502
http://sugarfreegamer.com/?p=83580

Also, if you downloaded v1.00 please make sure you get & install the v1.01 update, which has a lot of fixes & improvements. (It also includes an updated version of the AAW tutorial which is a little easier for beginners).

3.1.1) The icon set is what it is... but I missed the option of different ones. Yes, there's available to download one more clear for "non hardcore" but... here it comes, for the price, this should come by default. And no only two choices, but several.

As you say there are already alternatives, and you can even make your own (some guys have made high-contrast mods, for example).

3.1.2) Database. Big, full of data... too much... but lack of the basics. Why not photos? Or schemes, or drawings? I know you can download them separately but, yes, for the money...

This was a hard decision for us, no doubt. Back in the Harpoon era anyone attempting to sue for the inclusion of the images, drawings etc. would be laughed out of the court. Today you're receiving letters from lawyers faster than you can say "fair use". So we did the next best thing and crowd-sourced it. As you say there are already community image packs and in fact today we are releasing a big update (over 650MB).

I miss too a small description of the units and weapons to be able to use them better. A huge thing considering the size of the database? Yes, but for the money...

We added a dedicated weapon page in the DB viewer in v1.01, and we're also going to add hyperlinks in the places where weapons are commonly listed (e.g. aircraft loadout selection) so that you can click and read.

3.1.3) Log. Good, many details... too many. I would love an option of simplified log; I prefer a "Goblin3 hit by AA sidewinder missile" message, rather than the two lines full of details, but hard to read in the core of battle.

You can configure which of the messages will appear (Game -> Game Options -> Message Log), and even set certain types to raise a pop-up that stops the clock (useful for incoming weapon alerts).

3.1.4) Window layout. Not bad, but I would like more modularity.

Can you elaborate on that? If you mean the ability to quickly jump in areas of interest we have something in the works for that.

3.2) Sound. *cough* Well, there are some... and they do the job, but they are too few.
I would love some voices too. Today TTS is very common and with good quality. Having the option of receiving some useful messages via voice, kind of "Slighshot team take off", or "Sonar contact" would improve the game a lot, allow you to focus on other things and not have to look the log all the time.

We hear you. More sounds are in the cards. Optional background music too. (BTW you can customize _any_ sound!)

Again, thank you for all the observations and rest assured you're not alone in voicing many of your remarks. We are listening, we have already made many changes as a direct response to player feedback and even more stuff is on the way.

Stick around. It's going to be one hell of a ride!

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Sunburn

Welcome, and thank you for the honest feedback. This is exactly the kind of feedback we need to make the game even better. I will try to address some of your points with what we know about the present and future:


I hear you on the manual; thankfully Matrix listened and they've provided a printer-friendly version, here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3418599

Thank you!

Also, if you downloaded v1.00 please make sure you get & install the v1.01 update, which has a lot of fixes & improvements. (It also includes an updated version of the AAW tutorial which is a little easier for beginners).

Already updated, as I said.

As you say there are already alternatives, and you can even make your own (some guys have made high-contrast mods, for example).

Is there a good download area? Or is all spread out in different forums?

This [Images in database] was a hard decision for us, no doubt. Back in the Harpoon era anyone attempting to sue for the inclusion of the images, drawings etc. would be laughed out of the court. Today you're receiving letters from lawyers faster than you can say "fair use".

I understand, that's why I said drawings, maybe silhouettes... anything is better than nothing. Many sports games can't afford paying the license and make the game the way the community can easily insert the real player names... but this takes me back to the cost of the game.

As you say there are already community image packs and in fact today we are releasing a big update (over 650MB).

Sorry, I don't understand this, are you talking about a game update or a database images one?

We added a dedicated weapon page in the DB viewer in v1.01, and we're also going to add hyperlinks in the places where weapons are commonly listed (e.g. aircraft loadout selection) so that you can click and read.

Only for weapons? No for units?

You can configure which of the messages will appear (Game -> Game Options -> Message Log), and even set certain types to raise a pop-up that stops the clock (useful for incoming weapon alerts).

I know and I've already done that, but my point is that for me is useful to know some things, but no others. For instance: 11:29:22 - New contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
This is an in-game message. What's AN/BLQ-10(V)1???? "Go to the database", you could say, but that's my point, I don't want to need to go to the database... I went and found that is... active radar!! Apart from the fact that a submarine shouldn't have the use of radar on as default (I didn't change it), would have been far more useful a message saying: 11:29:22 - New RADAR contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina- at 255deg - Estimated 139NM. Or, even better: 11:29:22 - USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
And this is a simple example, messages involving missiles hit/miss are more complex.
If this would be followed by a voice alert, even better.

[Window display] Can you elaborate on that? If you mean the ability to quickly jump in areas of interest we have something in the works for that.

Yes, I'm sorry. I show you how I'm playing:


I would like the log window to be a bit wider, but there's no possibility of shrinking the map window more than that.
The unit control window can't be resized, so I have to move it sometimes to see what's behind. Would be great to be able to integrate it on the right column. Or being able to resize it and put it under the log window.
My laptop's window resolution is 1280x800.
This reminds me a bug I've found!: my windows in in Spanish and, if you look at the time row, the date comes in Spanish. You can see it in the image.

We hear you. More sounds are in the cards. Optional background music too. (BTW you can customize _any_ sound!)

Good to know. Be careful with background music, though, is almost impossible to have a good one than people can listen for more than 20 minutes... I use to switch music off in almost every game.

Again, thank you for all the observations and rest assured you're not alone in voicing many of your remarks. We are listening, we have already made many changes as a direct response to player feedback and even more stuff is on the way.

Stick around. It's going to be one hell of a ride!

Thanks to you for your answers!

[Sunburn]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

Is there a good download area? Or is all spread out in different forums?

The "official" download page is here: http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=1876

Sorry, I don't understand this, are you talking about a game update or a database images one?

From today, both

DB-image packs update: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1994

And new game update, released today: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1996

Only for weapons? No for units?

Platform hyperlinks are already there. While having a unit selected, click on the unit's class on the unit-status window. The DB-viewer will open up and show you the page for that unit.

I know and I've already done that, but my point is that for me is useful to know some things, but no others. For instance: 11:29:22 - New contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
This is an in-game message. What's AN/BLQ-10(V)1???? "Go to the database", you could say, but that's my point, I don't want to need to go to the database... I went and found that is... active radar!! Apart from the fact that a submarine shouldn't have the use of radar on as default (I didn't change it),

It's a passive ESM sensor actually. Subs use those very regularly when at periscope depth.

would have been far more useful a message saying: 11:29:22 - New RADAR contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina- at 255deg - Estimated 139NM. Or, even better: 11:29:22 - USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated SKUNK #5 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
And this is a simple example, messages involving missiles hit/miss are more complex.
If this would be followed by a voice alert, even better.

This is a double-edged sword. Consider the two following message log samples, reporting on the same events:

New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #6 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #7 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #8 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #9 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #10 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM

And:

USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #5 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #6 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #7 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #8 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #9 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #10 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM

Which of the two notifies you most immediately that you are under a missile attack?

I would like the log window to be a bit wider, but there's no possibility of shrinking the map window more than that.
The unit control window can't be resized, so I have to move it sometimes to see what's behind. Would be great to be able to integrate it on the right column. Or being able to resize it and put it under the log window.
My laptop's window resolution is 1280x800.

Interesting. The external log window was added primarily for use by players who have the extra desktop real estate to make use of it, particularly those with multiple monitors (one may argue that printing the log directly on the map is more efficient if space is limited). Let us look what we can do about that. Thanks!

This reminds me a bug I've found!: my windows in in Spanish and, if you look at the time row, the date comes in Spanish. You can see it in the image.

That was deliberate . We wanted that date to suit each user's selected locale in order to make it more personal. Most guys like it. Maybe add as option?

Good to know. Be careful with background music, though, is almost impossible to have a good one than people can listen for more than 20 minutes... I use to switch music off in almost every game.

Quite true. OTOH we had objections so passionate that guys actually went to the trouble to dig up old FC videos to show us that they'd like background music. We thought that, being a desktop windows app, people would just fire up their favorite mp3 player in the background and blast away. We were correct, but not 100% so

Thanks to you for your answers!

You're welcome! We hope you have endless fun with the game and feel free to join us on our or MG's forums too.

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Sunburn

The "official" download page is here: http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=1876

From today, both

DB-image packs update: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1994

And new game update, released today: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1996

Downloading!

It's a passive ESM sensor actually. Subs use those very regularly when at periscope depth.

I'm sorry, I thought it was active... see my point? I couldn't know what kind of sensor it was despite looking at the database... And I know ESM pretty well from SC and DW!!

This is a double-edged sword. Consider the two following message log samples, reporting on the same events:

New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #5 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #6 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #7 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #8 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #9 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #10 - Detected by USS North Carolina [Sensors: AN/BLQ-10(V)1] at 255deg - Estimated 139NM

And:

USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #5 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #6 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #7 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #8 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #9 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM
USS North Carolina - New RADAR contact! Designated VAMPIRE #10 - at 255deg - Estimated 139NM

Which of the two notifies you most immediately that you are under a missile attack?

I see your point. By the way, if you want immediate awareness, the message would better be:
VAMPIRE INBOUND! Designated VAMPIRE #5 - Detected by...
My point wasn't exactly that, but simplify the sensor detecting the threat.
What I'm thinking about is more about "game-flow". If I have to pause often to check the database and spend some time reading and "deciphering" what some things mean, or which sensor is... If, on the contrary, the messages log is clear and simple enough, or the database has a "simple" description area, the battle would run smoother.

Interesting. The external log window was added primarily for use by players who have the extra desktop real estate to make use of it, particularly those with multiple monitors (one may argue that printing the log directly on the map is more efficient if space is limited). Let us look what we can do about that. Thanks!

I thought that: I would love to have a second monitor...
I will give a second chance to the "in screen" log, but my first thought was it was hard to read.

That was deliberate . We wanted that date to suit each user's selected locale in order to make it more personal. Most guys like it. Maybe add as option?

I personally hate that. I have my smartphone in English only because I hate having some parts in Spanish and then some non translated (or worst: bad translated) apps in English...

Continuing with my experience with the game, I've been playing this morning the 3rd tutorial and loved it. I think it only lacks a 4th one about more complex battle set, kind of "advanced tutorial".

Again, I miss a lot of sounds. I think you mentioned first some can be added by anyone? Can you point me where could I find the way to do it? I'm mostly interested on a sound when a new contact is made and when I'm being attacked (I already make the game pause when that happens).

I'm loving the game, though, I really do. Still hurts having paid so much, but almost worth it.

Thanks again!

PS: Working on Sunday?? Give yourself a break!

[Skyhigh]

Goblin3 hit by AA sidewinder missile

Ah that would massively hurt realism....

(Goblin being a submerged target and Sidewinder an A-A missle... )

[FERdeBOER]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Ah that would massively hurt realism....

(Goblin being a submerged target and Sidewinder an A-A missle... )

Hahahaha! Touche. :p

[Herr-Berbunch]

Downloading as I type.