The Firearm thread: Engineering artistry of wood, polymer and steel.

[Stealhead]

Little known fact about the P08: for the competition for a new US Army pistol held in 1906/07 (which John Browning/Colt won with what became the M1911) Luger placed a version of the P08 up and it was one of the better designs and nearly won out.

The sample P08 pistols where chambered in .45ACP(same round a the 1911). This was because a requirement was the round be a heavier caliber.

Prior to that a few years earlier the US Army field tested Luger in 9mm around the end of the 19th century.The P08 did not become known as the P08 until the German Army accepted it as a service pistol in 1908.The pistol itself was actually first marketed in the late 1890's.I guess the P08 name stuck.

I have a feeling that one of those prototype .45ACP Lugers is worth a lot of money seems they only made a handful of them.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Little known fact about the P08: for the competition for a new US Army pistol held in 1906/07 (which John Browning/Colt won with what became the M1911) Luger placed a version of the P08 up and it was one of the better designs and nearly won out.

The sample P08 pistols where chambered in .45ACP(same round a the 1911). This was because a requirement was the round be a heavier caliber.

Prior to that a few years earlier the US Army field tested Luger in 9mm around the end of the 19th century.The P08 did not become known as the P08 until the German Army accepted it as a service pistol in 1908.The pistol itself was actually first marketed in the late 1890's.I guess the P08 name stuck.

I have a feeling that one of those prototype .45ACP Lugers is worth a lot of money seems they only made a handful of them.

Wow. Did not know that.

Thanks for sharing! That's awesome.

I want a .45 P08 now.

[Buddahaid]

I believe it was two .45 lugers and one is known still if memory serves. You can buy a .45ACP luger from Krausewerk if you have $50,000.00 to spare.

http://www.krausewerk.com/45luger.html

[Stealhead]

I wonder if there might be a modern reproduction on the market?That would cost less than 50K.A quick search implies that there are no repro Lugers not since the early 70's.

I know that long barrel P08s are also pretty valuable because they made far fewer of those.

[Buddahaid]

I love those. The WW1 artillery version is longest and a naval version is not as long.

[Stealhead]

Another pretty cool early semi-auto and also a German...The Mauser C96 in fact the first successful semi-auto I believe.

I do not own one but at some point I will pick one up.

Original early production C96 are also pretty pricey.The C96 was very popular in China during the first half of the 20th century they made their own copies.There was also a version produced in Germany and sold to several different factions including the both the White Russians and the Bolsheviks.That model became associated with the Bolsheviks for what ever reason and it has since been known as the "Bolo".It was in fact well liked by all of its users do to it shorter barrel making it very handy for room clearing and CQC.

Original C96 7.63x25mm


"Red 9" C96 the "9" means 9x19mm


"Bolo" C96 this one is in 9x19mm(hence the red"9") but they also came in 7.63 Mauser and the Chinese made some in .45ACP.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Another pretty cool early semi-auto and also a German...The Mauser C96 in fact the first successful semi-auto I believe.

I do not own one but at some point I will pick one up.

Original early production C96 are also pretty pricey.The C96 was very popular in China during the first half of the 20th century they made their own copies.There was also a version produced in Germany and sold to several different factions including the both the White Russians and the Bolsheviks.That model became associated with the Bolsheviks for what ever reason and it has since been known as the "Bolo".It was in fact well liked by all of its users do to it shorter barrel making it very handy for room clearing and CQC.

Those are nice pistols too...but I'm more of a P08/P38 guy if we talk about German WW2-and-before-era pistols.

Wouldn't mind having one.

[Stealhead]

I would rather have the extra rounds that the later C96 had and they went from stripper clips to removable mags 10,15 and even 20 rounders.In combat you want that.

The downside of the P08 is you had to keep it very clean the C96 on the other hand was a bit more rugged and could stand up to harsh treatment.

The P08 does have a more natural feel in the hands in those days even the combat pistol stance was one handed basically the one hand target stance it went the way of the do do in combat because well it is a bit counter to instinctive shooting which was first invented by two Englishmen that where police in Shanghai in the 20's (then a western controlled city).

I had to pick a first half of the 20th century German pistol I would use the Walther P38 instead.

[Buddahaid]

Beautiful pistols and one I would love to have but I would disagree on it being the first. The Swiss adopted the earlier Pistole Parabellum in 1900 making the 7.65 luger the first self-loading pistol to see military service. The German Navy followed in 1904. The next self-loading pistol to see service was the Colt M1911. I guess it depends on how one defines success as Steyr had a contender as well.

[Stealhead]

Well we are talking two different things here first to be manufactured and first to be accepted officially as the sidearm of a national military force.I shold have said first serial production semi-auto to me the term successful seemed fitting as many military officers who often could choose their own side arm choose to carry the C96 Winston Churchill for example carried an early C96 during his military career.Of course this can stem much more from status than practicality their selection.


According to my source for basic military firearms data Military Small Arms of the 20th Century by the late Ian Hogg the C96 was first produced in numbers in 1896.Where as Luger Pistole Parabellum was first produced in serial numbers(production) in 1898.I think that the PP became more popular because it had a detachable magazine where as the C96 had an internal magazine and did not have a detachable magazine as an option until much later past the time at which the PP was being selected.Also the PP is much less bulky is lighter and lines up naturally in the hand.Also ammunition wise you could carry a few mags more easily and with less space than you could C96 clips.I imagine that the Luger may have been less expensive as well.

In those days the a C96 side by side with a PP I think the C96 would have looked a bit bulky and primitive.They still do if you had the two side by side most people would say that like the Luger better.

The reason I would go with the P38 if I had to pick a German pistol 70+ years vintage?It had DA/SA trigger and a de cocker so you could safely carry a round in the chamber unlike the M1911(or most other older semi-autos) which did not and accidents where troops where walking around with a round ready where so common it was against regulations to carry one in that state right to 1985 when it got replaced by the M9 and the US Army clung to that for a a good while with the M9 as well.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The downside of the P08 is you had to keep it very clean the C96 on the other hand was a bit more rugged and could stand up to harsh treatment.

That's one of the only things I don't like too much about the gun. It has to be really clean.

The P08 does have a more natural feel in the hands in those days even the combat pistol stance was one handed basically the one hand target stance it went the way of the do do in combat because well it is a bit counter to instinctive shooting which was first invented by two Englishmen that where police in Shanghai in the 20's (then a western controlled city).

I've held them and they are some of the most comfortable pistols I've held. Never fired one though. I've got a friend who's dad has 2 P38's with matching numbers that were used in the war. He's got some holsters for them that came from the war too.

I had to pick a first half of the 20th century German pistol I would use the Walther P38 instead.

I probably would too. I want to shoot one someday.

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, that's it, I've had it up to HERE! I am SICK of you anti-American losers showing off your furrin' guns! I'm here to show you what's what by presenting an all-American weapon of distinction!

So there!

Actually I was planning on waiting until next month until I purchased a replacement bolt. I lived in a bad neighborhood for awhile and thought that if someone broke in and stole the gun they wouldn't be able to use it if I hid the bolt somewhere safe. Trouble is I hid it so well I haven't found it in the fifteen years since, and it's probably lost forever. I hate not having the original, but a replacement is better than no bolt at all, and I've found some good prices online.

You guys showing off your stuff got me too excited, so I can't wait anymore.

My '03 Springfield, license-built by Remington, now 71 years old:

The Rifle


The Date Stamp (Remington Arms, February 1942)



The Rear Sight



Original Strap (as far as I know)


Butt Plate (needs a little cleaning)


Business End with Front Sight


Manufacturer's Stamp





Oh, and a note: The first time somebody wrote "Luger P08" I did a double-take. I thought he had written "Luger POS", and I thought "Is it really that bad?"

[Buddahaid]

Nice one Steve. I've always thought those were a handsome design.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Okay, that's it, I've had it up to HERE! I am SICK of you anti-American losers showing off your furrin' guns! I'm here to show you what's what by presenting an all-American weapon of distinction!

So there!

Actually I was planning on waiting until next month until I purchased a replacement bolt. I lived in a bad neighborhood for awhile and thought that if someone broke in and stole the gun they wouldn't be able to use it if I hid the bolt somewhere safe. Trouble is I hid it so well I haven't found it in the fifteen years since, and it's probably lost forever. I hate not having the original, but a replacement is better than no bolt at all, and I've found some good prices online.

You guys showing off your stuff got me too excited, so I can't wait anymore.

My '03 Springfield, license-built by Remington, now 71 years old:

That's a beautiful rifle there Steve.

Oh, and a note: The first time somebody wrote "Luger P08" I did a double-take. I thought he had written "Luger POS", and I thought "Is it really that bad?"

Haha.

[Platapus]

I wonder if anyone used this configuration in combat? It looks ungainly.