Working on a new submarine sim: Sub Commander - advice needed!

[TheGeoff]

New custom submarine:
Zombie_2371 over at the Facepunch forums made this awesome new missile submarine, called the December class. Features four missile tubes, airlocks (if you want to flood your sub), and even a slightly customised misc system control panel!

It can be downloaded here: http://puu.sh/bMDhF/40368fb8d5.rar

Yes, YES! That 3D game looks amazing! What engine is it being developed in?

When you release it it it will be amazing. Also, I have a suggestion for the Nuclear Missile Console, allow us to zoom in and out like at the map screen. It is so cool to watch the missiles fly around. It is interesting though, as it appears that some countries will target you with their missiles, not just the cities. Is this because I am surfaced when I launch the missiles, or do they lock on to you anyway?

Another suggestion for quality of life. Make the radio messages more apparent, I have sat in port for a long time while doing recon missions, not realizing that I have already been given a new mission. Maybe add a flashing pop-up when you get a new message about missions or war decs.

Now a question, how do I dock at a friendly port to restock torpedoes, repair hull, ect. I heard that people can do that, just I do not know how. Thanks! Is there any variation with missions depending on which nation you play as? And are there any "launch nuclear weapons at x y z" missions that result from the AI launching missiles? I know that nations will declare war on each other, and may or may not fight each other in the background, but will a nation instigate a nuclear war?

I LOVE this game, it is like FTL with submarines (which is a good thing) and I hope it grows and develops alongside the 3D multiplayer version when it is released. Please make more spoiler pics when you can!

P.S. The November is my favorite submarine, due to it's versatility and that it has missiles!

The 3D sim is developed in Unity, which I think will allow the game to have nice, modern 3D graphics while also being relatively quick and easy to develop thanks to the asset store. For example, I was able to buy a module which allows for realistic ripples and splashes in water for $30 - it would have taken me weeks to write that code from scratch.

Seems a few people are interested in improvements to the missile control panel map - labels, zoom levels etc. I'll work on improving it in a future update. Countries won't deliberately target you with missiles (I think), but you might get hit if you're near a port and a missile goes off course. Cold War era guidance systems aren't perfect!

To rearm at a port, get close (within one square) and press LShift+R. This doesn't work if the port has been destroyed by nuclear weapons for obvious reasons. Currently, the AI will never perform a nuclear first strike and will never order you to - this is because any nuclear actions are basically guaranteed to wipe out every city and end the world, and I don't want to force players to start a new game just because the AI went crazy and nuked everyone.

[kvn8907]

I first learned of this game in issue 256 of PC Gamer, in the Downloads section. I downloaded 0.22 and started learning it, thinking that was the newest version. I then realized that 0.23 was newer, but when I downloaded it, I was confused with the control scheme, and thought it was more difficult to control because right clicking no longer closed what window was open.
So, I kept playing 0.22 for a while. In particular, one Sunday my cable went out, and with nothing to do online, I ended spending almost 6 hours playing Sub Commander.

After I finally felt like I had gotten the hang of the game, and realized there was a short manual to read, I decided to read this entire thread from beginning to end. It was interesting to read how many of the troubles I did encounter with the game were the same troubles others were seeing, and I was pleased to finally learn what the purpose of Thick Leather Gloves and Chemical Suits are in the game. When I got to the change log of 0.23 I read about how the control scheme had changed, and how it was now easier to give direct orders to crew members. I also learned that for most screens, clicking on an unoccupied part of the screen went back to the default screen just like right clicking used to do, with the periscope screen being the exception, so I no longer felt like 0.23 had a more inconvenient control scheme.

Sub Commander, ever since I started playing it, had thus far always been a game about learning the submarine. It was fun in its own right, but I got the feeling that once all the intricacies of it were learned, that was as good as the game being finished. That changed with 0.25, and the two largest changes I've seen on it so far. First, the save feature was a huge change. With that, the game now ends when I get bored, sink/ kill all my crew, or get an impossible mission, instead of when I need to do something else or turn off my computer. Second, the missions became much more challenging.
On 9/25 I was playing a new mission with the new game version, this one to sink a ship east of Iceland. I found the corvette and two destroyers, slinked in close, fired one torpedo at each of the destroyers, which were hit, and two at the corvette. Unlike previous versions of Sub Commander, it dodged both torpedoes and accelerated to 42 knots (!) and zoomed close to me. It didn't have any depth charges and I was at periscope depth, so it darted close to me and then started running circles around me. I reloaded my tubes and fired more torpedoes at it, trying my hardest to lead the speedy little thing, and must have shot five at it, because by the time I finally hit it, I only had two torpedoes left, and if it had dodged those I would have had to make a long trip to some port to resupply.

Point being the game was never that much of a challenge until recently. All the times I took damage or sunk before were the results of either my own inexperience, such as not realizing that pressing T in the sonar menu made it possible to target a sonar signature, leading to an indefinite one-sided battle with an enemy submarine I was incapable of evading or destroying, or bad luck, such as encountering another ship while blindly navigating. This new version 0.25 seems to have more glitches and bugs than other versions, which I'll post in the proper subforum, but it's certainly a step in the right direction toward the game being more than simply learning how to play the game (which, don't get me wrong, was fun in its own right).

Finally, as for suggestions, I'd like to see more fleet actions. It would be interesting if it were possible to lure two enemy fleets in range of each other and help as they duke it out. Or, a timed mission where you have to get to a staging area to help with a fleet battle or else the battle will be lost. Or, a fleet battle that will not start until you are within 80 km of it.

I wish there were a few more ports further north, such as on Iceland, in Alaska, and in northern Russia.

Also, I've put a lot of thought into the possibility that has been mentioned about enemy ships being able to take multiple hits. On the one hand, for large warships, that would certainly be realistic. I remember vividly in Red Storm Rising a US Navy destroyer has its entire front section blown away, but due to its bulkheads, it stays afloat and is slowly towed back to port for refit. Also, in The Journal of Submarine Commander Von Forstner (old reference, I know) he mentions how transport ships don't typically have watertight bulkheads and the ones that do tend to only split the ships in half whereas warships proper tend to have watertight bulkheads with small subdivisions. On the other hand, in light of the example I just gave of a corvette zipping around like someone circle strafing in an FPS, I think the newest version of Sub Commander is challenging enough without requiring that I plug enemy ships with multiple torpedoes, or even having a dice roll that the torpedo hit someplace nonessential, like the ship's sleeping quarters.

Anyway, long story short, this has been a very interesting game, and I look forward to new updates. This kind of reminds me of Cortex Command in that it's a. retro-style b. released incrementally c. doesn't have a very comprehensive tutorial, and requires a lot of trial and error, which can be fun sometimes. I'm also glad to see it's free, though you could certainly charge $5 for version 1.0 when it comes out if you'd like.

[TheGeoff]

Thanks for the feedback kvn8907, interesting to hear your thoughts about how the game has progressed. You definitely raise an important point - until now a lot of the challenge has been learning to deal with the submarine and figuring out how to deal with the different types of disaster, rather than the actual combat aspects of the game.

0.25 significantly boosted the enemy AI and made the game more of a challenge and I'd like to take that further in the future. Enemies will get smarter, more responsive and better at teamwork - but of course your allies will also benefit from this. When AI ships seek out and engage each other properly there will be the potential for some amazing situations! I also plan to add some depth (heh) to the combat system by adding new capabilities to your sub like active sonar and decoys.

Glad you're enjoying the game and thank you for posting your experience!

[kvn8907]

Good to know. I have a break room at work, and now with the save game feature, it's practical to play the game for a few minutes on breaks and pick it up later.

Also, I just learned in the game that you can easily switch between people when assigning them to new compartments in the new versions of the game, whereas in 0.22 you had to go through a three step process on each crew member, which took forever if you wanted to assign everyone to a non-flooded room that wasn't the break room.

Now, if I had known about that feature that time when my entire submarine was flooded except for the Sonar room, maybe everyone but two people could have crowded into the sonar room while two people with welding torches and SCBA fixed the ship.

[TheGeoff]

Originally Posted by kvn8907

Good to know. I have a break room at work, and now with the save game feature, it's practical to play the game for a few minutes on breaks and pick it up later.

Also, I just learned in the game that you can easily switch between people when assigning them to new compartments in the new versions of the game, whereas in 0.22 you had to go through a three step process on each crew member, which took forever if you wanted to assign everyone to a non-flooded room that wasn't the break room.

Now, if I had known about that feature that time when my entire submarine was flooded except for the Sonar room, maybe everyone but two people could have crowded into the sonar room while two people with welding torches and SCBA fixed the ship.

I think I'll add area assignment to the right-click menu for next time, That should streamline things even further.

Also thanks for pointing out the game was mentioned in PC Gamer, I had no idea! First time the game's been mentioned in an actual print magazine

[Tango589]

Dear sir,

I'm 86 days into a patrol and have been tasked with sinking a particular vessel. After having to stop off at Port Stanley to refit, I've reached the area the vessel was last seen and have searched high and low for him but to no avail: I can't find the little sod anywhere! Will I eventually be given a new order or do I just start a new patrol and give up on this one?

Yours,

Frustrated

Uk.

[Aktungbby]

NICKVR628 & kvn8907!

[TheGeoff]

Originally Posted by Tango589

Dear sir,

I'm 86 days into a patrol and have been tasked with sinking a particular vessel. After having to stop off at Port Stanley to refit, I've reached the area the vessel was last seen and have searched high and low for him but to no avail: I can't find the little sod anywhere! Will I eventually be given a new order or do I just start a new patrol and give up on this one?

Yours,

Frustrated

Uk.

The ship might be a submarine, which would make it damn hard to spot. If that was the case you'd probably find a sonar contact eventually though, or more likely the sub would find you. It's possible but unlikely that the ship sailed out of the mission area completely. Or maybe this is a previously unseen bug surfacing.

Regardless, I have made a temporary solution for impossible missions.

1. Download this: http://goo.gl/QsUsqE
2. Put MissionCompleter.exe in your game folder (the same folder as the Sub Commander exe file)
3. Save your game.
4. Run the Mission Completer (it should say "Mission complete!")
5. Load your game. The old mission will have been completely forgotten and you will be quickly given a new one.

[ikalugin]

Hi,
I have several questions:
- Do you need any assistance in the coding? I ask this b/c this is a big project for 1 man.
- How is the eye candy (3d sub commander) doing?
- Do you plan to use a complex sonar simulation, like that other sub sim project here?

[Nickvr628]

Please post images (or a video is you are feeling confident) of the new 3d sub-sim. I want to see more of it's awesomeness-ness.


If you are feeling REALLY confident, you can release a tech demo of it, where you just walk around the submarine and can punch holes in the hull to watch the flooding physics.

Godspeed to you in developing this game, and if it is good enough I would GLADLY pay for it.

[Tango589]

Originally Posted by TheGeoff

Regardless, I have made a temporary solution for impossible missions.

Cheers for the work-around, it'll save steam coming out of my ears with frustration!

[TheGeoff]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Hi,
I have several questions:
- Do you need any assistance in the coding? I ask this b/c this is a big project for 1 man.
- How is the eye candy (3d sub commander) doing?
- Do you plan to use a complex sonar simulation, like that other sub sim project here?

Thank you for the offer, but I intend to continue coding the game on my own for now. If in the future I decide to stop working on Sub Commander for some reason, I intend to release the source code so others can continue development if they're interested.

I will make the radar and sonar simulation in Sub Commander more detailed eventually but I don't have any immediate plans for it. Someday I'll probably play a bunch of Dangerous Waters then feel inspired to redo all the sonar code Also, the 3D sub sim I'm working on will probably have more detailed sensor systems than Sub Commander.

Originally Posted by Nickvr628

Please post images (or a video is you are feeling confident) of the new 3d sub-sim. I want to see more of it's awesomeness-ness.


If you are feeling REALLY confident, you can release a tech demo of it, where you just walk around the submarine and can punch holes in the hull to watch the flooding physics.

Godspeed to you in developing this game, and if it is good enough I would GLADLY pay for it.

Unfortunately the game isn't ready for demos or videos yet - I'll definitely take some videos once the game is more complete, but for now you'll have to make do with a couple of gifs:
http://gfycat.com/RareIndolentInterm...ret#?speed=0.7
http://gfycat.com/UnconsciousThornyAcaciarat#?speed=0.7

[Tango589]

Those GIFs are looking good Geoff, I could almost feel my feet getting wet (and that's not because I've just had an accident)

[Karma441]

Originally Posted by TheGeoff

If there are other features you would really like to see in 0.26, now's a good time to post 'em!

I only downloaded this game this morning and instantly fell in love. I have always enjoyed games with a lot of depth and this game definitely has the potential to have a LOT of depth. The realism is great, though I don't know much about submarines I feel like I'm getting a pretty authentic experience here. anyway, my suggestions.

It would be pretty cool to give crew members multiple speeds, (e.g. crew members will move at a slower or 'walking speed' when there is no emergency but will move at a faster or 'running' speed when there is a fire, hull damage etc.) maybe even give some crew members an 'agile' attribute which would give them a slight advantage. another thing I noticed is that when a crew member dies they just come back to life once you refill at a port, but it would be pretty cool and a little more realistic to see them get replaced by a new crew member with a new set of skills and attributes.

I would also like to see something more interactive at ports on arrival; maybe a menu of options. These options could include things such as crew replacements, picking up different equipment or even taking new missions from the port rather than the radio. Another interesting feature could possibly be the addition of battleships and/or aircraft carriers which would add a whole different aspect of game play.

I know some of my suggestions are a bit 'out there' or just sound dumb but I hope a few of them help with the next update which I'm sure is going to be great. It's nice to see how well this game has come out and how big of an impact the updates have. The 3D version looks like it's going to be a blast, though I hope it keeps the same authenticity that the original has managed to provide.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim Karma