intercept target solutions ? geometrical method ?

[qmuddy2]

do i have to learn that geometrical target intercept solution business ? or can the tdc (or some other way) work out my intercept point ? thanks i'm intercepting the enemy ships by just guessing about where my intercept point is now, working ok , so far, but i think it will make game more playable if i don't have to guess; thanks

[MantiBrutalis]

If I don't want to do that whole geometric calculation, I just guesstimate:

I check the target's heading and speed (slow for 6 knots, medium for 9 knots). I multiply the speed by 2 - the target will do 12 km per hour when travelling at 6 knots, 18 km/h at 9 knots, etc. (In reality it will take the target a tiny bit longer, but at least you will arrive before it does)

And then you guess. I would guess for example I can intercept in 4 hours. I make the target plot for 48 kms (4x12km/h). I plot my course to that point, full ahead, wait for the speed to catch up... and then check the map, as it will tell you when are you going to get there. If I can't make it in 4 hours, I increase the target's distance, if less then 4, I can decrease it.

That's my lazy procedure. But for targets really far away it may be better to learn the geometry thing. It's not that hard and it's the most precise way.

[UKönig]

And when you get into the area where you think the contact might be, dive to take a listen on the hydrophones. Sounds travel farther underwater than the eye can see from the low lying bridge of the U-boat.

Radar may also be useful here, depending on several factors, but when in doubt, dive.

[sublynx]

Mark I Eyeball will do nicely. No need to learn the geometrical stuff if it doesn't feel right.

On the other hand the one time I survived until late 1943 I began to feel sorry I had not paid more attention to navigation techniques. The airplanes and radar kept making convoy shadowing quite an effort. If I had known how to calculate approaches exactly I could have minimized the time I had to be surfaced and I could have minimized the risk of being out of position if the convoy made a zigzag. A botched approach with radar and escort carriers around can force one to spend an extra day near the convoy with its airplanes, while surfaced. I'm now trying to learn the techniques that might help me keep my boat from harm's way, if only for a few hours or a day.

[Pisces]

One thing for sure, the TDC doesn't help you finding the intercept course to the target. Only if you strap yourself to a torpedo and hold your breath for as long as needed.

[Tupolev]

While the TDC basically computes a lead angle intercept, its limited to solving with only 3 speeds: 30kts, 40kts, 44kts. Even if you were able to input a correct AOB (which itself would take solving an equation or navmap plotting) and target speed, the lead angle provided wouldn't be accurate as the U-boat isn't making 30kts+.

There are a few GUI mods out there that provide a simulated attack-disk (can't remember the real name of it) and directions on how to use it to solve for the intercept angle and course. However, I've found it more expedient to just do the drawing on the navmap. YMMV.

T

torpedo speed + speed of target = angle of fire.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by sENoZ

torpedo speed + speed of target = angle of fire.

Not sure how you mean that, but it isn't as simple as an addition of knots.

[Zosimus]

You can use the TDC to calculate intercept courses -- it isn't as hard as you think. Let's assume that you get a map contact somewhere to the north of you that is going ENE. You can simply draw a line from this contact off in an ENE direction (67º) for a distance. Once done, extend that line backwards so it won't interfere with your later line drawing.

Now draw a line backwards from some midpoint along the line to the target and make a mark. Then you can reclick on that mark and connect it through your boat to find an angle. This is your AOB. You can put this into the TDC.

For the sake of simplicity we will assume that you plan to intercept the target at 15 knots and your torpedo travels at 30 knots. All you need to do is double the target speed and feed that data into the TDC. If you are intercepting at 10 knots then you need to triple the target speed. If intercepting at 17 knots, then multiply the target speed by 1.4, etc.

That will give you a lead angle and it's close enough for government work. However, once I learned the method from the "hunt" post, I stopped using the TDC to work out intercept courses.

Originally Posted by Pisces

Not sure how you mean that, but it isn't as simple as an addition of knots.

looks like you dont get me ...

i made a easy example of what am saying, cause i dont sink neutral ship but that boat was an good opportunity to show what i mean by speed of target + speed of torpedo ....

in this example i shoot when the boat appear at 20 angle. the boat get torpedo at 0 front of the sub so ....

so the target was at 10 knots speed and my torpedo was 28 knots speed = angle of shoot around 20 ...

easy.


work with long range too.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by sENoZ

looks like you dont get me ...

i made a easy example of what am saying, cause i dont sink neutral ship but that boat was an good opportunity to show what i mean by speed of target + speed of torpedo ....

in this example i shoot when the boat appear at 20 angle. the boat get torpedo at 0 front of the sub so ....

so the target was at 10 knots speed and my torpedo was 28 knots speed = angle of shoot around 20 ...

easy.


work with long range too.

I do get you, but you don't seem to apply the numbers like you said. You say torpedo speed + target speed = shooting angle.

But what you do is target speed + shooting angle = give or take torpedo speed.

In this case with these numbers you got lucky. But try it with faster and slower targets. Your numbers won't add up anymore. Also the distance in that video didn't seem that far. Or it depends on what you consider far. And hitting something at distance is only going to get harder if you don't have the speed right.

Originally Posted by Pisces

I do get you, but you don't seem to apply the numbers like you said. You say torpedo speed + target speed = shooting angle.

But what you do is target speed + shooting angle = give or take torpedo speed.

In this case with these numbers you got lucky. But try it with faster and slower targets. Your numbers won't add up anymore. Also the distance in that video didn't seem that far. Or it depends on what you consider far. And hitting something at distance is only going to get harder if you don't have the speed right.

____________________________

In this case with these numbers you got lucky. But try it with faster and slower targets.

i am using 28 knots torpedo and in the video range of shoot is around 4,7 km ....

____________________________

But what you do is target speed + shooting angle = give or take torpedo speed.


No no you still dont got it looks like .....

so i said .....

target speed + speed of your torpedo = you have the angle of shoot nothing else + being at an angle of 90 for shoot the boat ........


a video here that i did fastly, just for show you again ^^.... distance is around 4,7km cause the torpedo i use have a range of 5 km ..

give me a torpedo that can have a range of 30 kilometers, then i will do a video ............. distance dont change anything, there is no distance will using this technic.





i think you can call this technic the broken tdc .....


so there is no luck here.


just again .... speed of target + speed of your torpedo + being at an angle of 90 degres .... = angle of shoot .................

the angle of shoot ( shooting the torpedo ) will change depending the angle until your u-boat and the ennemy to sink.




btw playing at 100% realism, i just keeped contact on map.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by sENoZ

i am using 28 knots torpedo and in the video range of shoot is around 4,7 km ....

Fair enough, it didn't seem as far.

No no you still dont got it looks like .....

so i said .....

target speed + speed of your torpedo = you have the angle of shoot nothing else + being at an angle of 90 for shoot the boat ........

just again .... speed of target + speed of your torpedo + being at an angle of 90 degres .... = angle of shoot .................

I thought the 90 degrees attack angle was implied. Either way, it doesn't help those numbers to fit. Ok, so let's do the numbers.

target speed 10
torpedo speed 28

10 + 28 = 38

So how does 38 shooting angle come close to the 20 you used? The only way you can make it fit together is by using a different formula.

the angle of shoot ( shooting the torpedo ) will change depending the angle until your u-boat and the ennemy to sink.

How does it change or depend on what?

a video here that i did fastly, just for show you again ^^.... distance is around 4,7km cause the torpedo i use have a range of 5 km ..

give me a torpedo that can have a range of 30 kilometers, then i will do a video ............. distance dont change anything, there is no distance will using this technic.

Distance does not change the amout of lead, or the torpedo shooting angle if you will, but it does require your aiming to be more accuracte. As objects ar more distant they become smaller. So you need to be sure that shooting angle is exactly as much as it needs to be.
To roughly calculate the size divide the target length by the distance, and to convert it to degrees divide that by another 57. (or 60 if you want it crude) That is how much your torpedo shooting angle may vary to still hit the target. The further you shoot at, the narrower it becomes.

Nice video, but what is the target's speed? Otherwise it doesn't prove anything about your method.

[MantiBrutalis]

Completely baffled by sENoZ's procedure as well...

[Zosimus]

I watched the video and didn't get it. My U-boat comes with a targeting computer, which has yet to let me down. Why not use it?