Hello, looking for some helpful pointers

shadowmoses · 05-31-21, 12:00 PM

Hello,

I am new to subsim.com. I first played SHIII around 10 years ago and I was extremely thrilled with the premise of the game. If there ever was a game I'd like to get good at, this was the game. I played around with it for about a week and was kind of overwhelmed and discouraged by not understanding the many techniques involved in playing the game. So, I put it away.

Fast forward to now, I refound the game and reinstalled everything, determined to invest the time and learning it takes to get good at this game. I have browsed countless videos, articles, tutorials and am still having some trouble of how to put it all together. A simple example would be the process of finding a ship(s) while navigating, picking an attack position, attacking, and then escaping. I understand the fundamentals of the game but I feel like I'm overwhelmed with the details. For example, I have seen about 3 or more different methods to find a torpedo solution. Some people have tutorials on how to take your shot with only using the map and drawing instruments. Is this a practical way to play the game? I find all the ways of coming up with a firing solution very interesting. I would essentially like to know how to use all the different techniques available in this game and I'm a total beginner so I don't know where to start and I don't know which techniques I should save for learning after I have learned the basics. Maybe I'm overcomplicating things a bit? I usually do this. I have watched several playthrough's on YouTube of Wolfpack345 playing SH3, and it seems like he plays the game pretty seamlessly. I'm sure that someone like him probably is aware of all the different methods to play the game, but maybe he's at the point where he's narrowed it down to his own individual toolset of methods and disregards other techniques that may be viable, but he personally may not care for them?

Sorry for the long-winded banter. As you may notice, yes, I am a bit overwhelmed by the game and would appreciate some pointing in the right direction to become a good baseline player with a good understanding of the fundamentals of the game and how to get even better in the long run. I am willing and able to invest the time it would take to learn and understand this game.

Thank you so much for your time and any support you can offer. I look forward to becoming an active member of subsim.com and to be able to participate in some nice conversations and meet some knowledgeable players. Thanks again and Happy Hunting!

Aktungbby · 05-31-21, 01:27 PM

shadowmoses!

Very nice first post. I'm nominating it for

best of: long-winded banter.

shadowmoses · 05-31-21, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

shadowmoses!

Very nice first post. Ixm nominating it for

best of: long-winded banter.

LoL, thanks matey!

Pisces · 06-01-21, 05:48 AM

I don't mind the long banter. Cursed is the person who invented the "TL/DR" shortcut.

So, where is your problem now? Finding them? Figuring out where they are going (course/speed?) Or finally getting the torpedoes on target? Or getting out of dodge when the stuff hits the fans? Obviously we have to try it in that order.

Finding them: Your best sensor on the boat to detect other ships is the hydrophone. Submerged radius is 34km when you listen yourself. If you ask the crew then they won't report anything beyond 20km or so. If they can be bothered at all. That seems quite a distance compared to the visual detection distance with crew on the bridge, 8km or 16km if you use GWX3 or other mods. But when you are out in the Atlantic, you are still sitting on a needlepoint in a haystack. The odds of something being near enough is neigh zero.

Better is to look for icons plotted on the map, clicking on them for details on where they are going, since when and how fast. Personally the range they are drawn around you is rather short, 250km. It's a config file setting, which I personally enlarged to at least 750km. (SilentHunterIII_installfolder\data\Cfg\Contacts.c fg) My reasoning is that BdU sends out these messages that anyone can receive and decode. It is you that determines if you are actually close enough and in a good position to intercept. With the above information I made myself a rule. If the target moves more than 170 km from the initial radio icon then they stray outside of the maximum hydrophone range, and I can no longer be sure they are inside of it. (their given course is N, NNE, NE, ENE, E, etc. plus or minus 11.25 degrees; at 170km this makes an ice-cone with the hydrophone range as the ice ball) If they are slow and I reached inside the 'ice-cone' drawing before they arrived I may have to backtrack them. 9 times out of 10 you find them just late to the party if you made haste with your intercept. They may however changed course in the mean time, so you may loose them on occasion.

Other wise you can try to position yourself in places where traffic merges into choke-points. From there on out you can follow them, get their actual speed and course. Better not do that with ships or convoys inbound for a port. You would have to judge the time until they disappear by de-spawning from the campaign if you can attack them in time. So focus on outgoing instead. Subsequently use the gathered information on them to attack them.

As for tracking, you can do that at a stand off distance. Or sprint ahead like a madman, dive wherever in front of them and do the tracking and final speed and AOB assessments right before you fire. I would say, try the standoff tracking first, as it doesn't get hectic. You'll have plenty of time to get comfortable with learning how to plot, use the map mechanics. Or how to best to manoeuvre your boat.

You can ask the watch officer for ranges and bearings to target on the surface. Mark the spot where you are now. (probably the most hectic part of this) Add the bearing to your current course and subtract any multiples of 360 if you can. Then draw a line on the map from the previously recorded position, in that calculated direction and to the range quoted by the watch officer. Do this several times with multiple minutes apart. 3 minutes 15 seconds as minimal interval is a nice magic number to start with. If you do 4 of those you end up at 13 minutes. And should give a good indication of the path of the target. And the distance between the endpoints of the line (in kilometers) should show a measure of the target speed, 4 times the speed in knots divided by 10. If you want to know, calculate how many meters something at 1 knot moves in 3 minutes, 15 seconds.

If you do the above method, it might however be useful to include some quality of life mods if you don't have them. Stock SH3 doesn't have useful compas-wheels on the cursor tools. So plotting the line isn't as easy. Though you should be able to use the protactor tool to get the angle with reference to north/east/south/west when one leg is exactly horizontal or vertical. I made my own mod, best to enable it with the moding tool JSGME: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=3704

I'll await your response to hear if this is part of the journey you are stuck in. Or if it is beyond this point where you get lost.

shadowmoses · 06-01-21, 10:13 AM

Thanks for the reply Pisces! I appreciate you taking the time to answer me in a straight forward manner.

In all honesty, I think the best idea for me to accurately reply to you is to experiment a bit more with the game. I currently have the game installed with GWX 3 mod for no particular reason. Maybe it's not a good mod for a beginner to this game or additional mods with more useful tools would be beneficial? I will certainly download your mod and experiment with it.

I'll be back in touch after working on the key concepts you mentioned and see where my pitfalls lie. I have a feeling that experimenting will make me more comfortable with all the tools the game offers and I will develop speed and proficiency. Afterwards, I can enjoy the immersive experience of the game. The thought of stalking prey in the deep ocean is exhilarating. I can't wait!

On a side note, I noticed that historically, U-boats would typically travel the surface of water under cover of night and perform surface torpedo attacks. Is that possible in this game?

Thanks again for your reply and I'll reach out again when I can give you a more specific answer to your question.

Pisces · 06-01-21, 10:22 AM

GWX 3 is fine. Doesn't hurt to know how the vanila game works. But by it's popularity (GWX 3) you have the best chance of finding support from others. Just note that the JSGME contained with GWX 3 is outdated. To prevent possible mod setup corruption you might want to download and install/replace the JSGME executable.

Yeah, at some point you just have to try it. Get into the deep (pun intended) and just see how far you get. Don't forget to read the big GWX 3 manual. It does contain a guides on how to manual target with their changed GUI layout. Not very different from vanilla, but clearer guidance than the stock manual provides.

Pisces · 06-01-21, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmoses

...
On a side note, I noticed that historically, U-boats would typically travel the surface of water under cover of night and perform surface torpedo attacks. Is that possible in this game?
...

Not specifically at night on the surface. In the first few years /beginning of the war you can travel on the surface all day. When you encounter something then you need to be careful. Then you need to keep your distance to not get caught in broad daylight. (the 16km rendering range mod GWX3 comes with is recommended for more space to hide and maneuver) You can hide in the fog/haze as you maneuver to their front and only dive when you are in front on their track. Keep your periscope down as much as possible during the daytime as you (or rather they) get close.

Enemy aircover does exist, but isn't so widespread in the beginning. Whenever you encounter a plane, make sure to dive beyond periscope depth and wait it out. But keep moving because you might still get something dropped on you.

Later on in the war, towards the end the Allies get more aircover and better radar, so they can see you from further out in daylight. Then you may have to stay submerged during the day, and move at night. By that time however you should also get some radar detector goodies.

Night surface attacks is certainly possible. It was really exhilarating passing a convoy only 1-2km away. And running away on the surface as my torpedoes headed for their targets. And seeing the convoy escorts search for nothing under the illumination of their flares. But that also makes you cocky and make mistakes. Had a string of 1-2 month careers as I got too close for my well being.

shadowmoses · 06-01-21, 11:46 AM

Pisces

Thank you very much for your insight/knowledge! I'm looking forward to challenging myself to learn much more about the total experience.

The historical insight is great! I can see how more historical insight can create a more layered immersive experience. I watched "Das Boot" last night as well. What a killer soundtrack!

I also checked out your link to the tools you have and they all seem pretty useful. I feel a lot more confident after talking to you and can't wait to head out on my journey as captain! Thank you sir!

bstanko6 · 06-01-21, 04:35 PM

There are many resources here to help you. If you’re looking for historical ways of attacking, you can click on my link below to my YouTube channel. If you’re looking for historical information, you can go just about anywhere here to get it.

If any of my content doesn’t fit your needs, there are many people who have many different styles that they can share with you.

shadowmoses · 06-01-21, 05:16 PM

Thank you very much!

To be honest, I've stumbled across your channel in my searching and I love it! Your content is super-helpful and interesting. I would also like to start building a wealth of knowledge, including historical approaches, so that I can implement them in my toolkit. I particularly liked the video where you show off your setup where you play your games. I'm the type of person that would do something like that. I thought it was so cool how you did all of that stuff to add to the immersion of the experience. I will continue to use your resources to help me on my journey. Thanks for your help!

05-31-21, 12:00 PM	#1
shadowmoses Swabbie Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 5 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Hello, looking for some helpful pointers Hello, I am new to subsim.com. I first played SHIII around 10 years ago and I was extremely thrilled with the premise of the game. If there ever was a game I'd like to get good at, this was the game. I played around with it for about a week and was kind of overwhelmed and discouraged by not understanding the many techniques involved in playing the game. So, I put it away. Fast forward to now, I refound the game and reinstalled everything, determined to invest the time and learning it takes to get good at this game. I have browsed countless videos, articles, tutorials and am still having some trouble of how to put it all together. A simple example would be the process of finding a ship(s) while navigating, picking an attack position, attacking, and then escaping. I understand the fundamentals of the game but I feel like I'm overwhelmed with the details. For example, I have seen about 3 or more different methods to find a torpedo solution. Some people have tutorials on how to take your shot with only using the map and drawing instruments. Is this a practical way to play the game? I find all the ways of coming up with a firing solution very interesting. I would essentially like to know how to use all the different techniques available in this game and I'm a total beginner so I don't know where to start and I don't know which techniques I should save for learning after I have learned the basics. Maybe I'm overcomplicating things a bit? I usually do this. I have watched several playthrough's on YouTube of Wolfpack345 playing SH3, and it seems like he plays the game pretty seamlessly. I'm sure that someone like him probably is aware of all the different methods to play the game, but maybe he's at the point where he's narrowed it down to his own individual toolset of methods and disregards other techniques that may be viable, but he personally may not care for them? Sorry for the long-winded banter. As you may notice, yes, I am a bit overwhelmed by the game and would appreciate some pointing in the right direction to become a good baseline player with a good understanding of the fundamentals of the game and how to get even better in the long run. I am willing and able to invest the time it would take to learn and understand this game. Thank you so much for your time and any support you can offer. I look forward to becoming an active member of subsim.com and to be able to participate in some nice conversations and meet some knowledgeable players. Thanks again and Happy Hunting!

05-31-21, 01:27 PM	#2
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,894 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! shadowmoses! Very nice first post. I'm nominating it for best of: long-winded banter. __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe" Last edited by Aktungbby; 05-31-21 at 10:28 PM.

06-01-21, 05:48 AM	#4
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I don't mind the long banter. Cursed is the person who invented the "TL/DR" shortcut. So, where is your problem now? Finding them? Figuring out where they are going (course/speed?) Or finally getting the torpedoes on target? Or getting out of dodge when the stuff hits the fans? Obviously we have to try it in that order. Finding them: Your best sensor on the boat to detect other ships is the hydrophone. Submerged radius is 34km when you listen yourself. If you ask the crew then they won't report anything beyond 20km or so. If they can be bothered at all. That seems quite a distance compared to the visual detection distance with crew on the bridge, 8km or 16km if you use GWX3 or other mods. But when you are out in the Atlantic, you are still sitting on a needlepoint in a haystack. The odds of something being near enough is neigh zero. Better is to look for icons plotted on the map, clicking on them for details on where they are going, since when and how fast. Personally the range they are drawn around you is rather short, 250km. It's a config file setting, which I personally enlarged to at least 750km. (SilentHunterIII_installfolder\data\Cfg\Contacts.c fg) My reasoning is that BdU sends out these messages that anyone can receive and decode. It is you that determines if you are actually close enough and in a good position to intercept. With the above information I made myself a rule. If the target moves more than 170 km from the initial radio icon then they stray outside of the maximum hydrophone range, and I can no longer be sure they are inside of it. (their given course is N, NNE, NE, ENE, E, etc. plus or minus 11.25 degrees; at 170km this makes an ice-cone with the hydrophone range as the ice ball) If they are slow and I reached inside the 'ice-cone' drawing before they arrived I may have to backtrack them. 9 times out of 10 you find them just late to the party if you made haste with your intercept. They may however changed course in the mean time, so you may loose them on occasion. Other wise you can try to position yourself in places where traffic merges into choke-points. From there on out you can follow them, get their actual speed and course. Better not do that with ships or convoys inbound for a port. You would have to judge the time until they disappear by de-spawning from the campaign if you can attack them in time. So focus on outgoing instead. Subsequently use the gathered information on them to attack them. As for tracking, you can do that at a stand off distance. Or sprint ahead like a madman, dive wherever in front of them and do the tracking and final speed and AOB assessments right before you fire. I would say, try the standoff tracking first, as it doesn't get hectic. You'll have plenty of time to get comfortable with learning how to plot, use the map mechanics. Or how to best to manoeuvre your boat. You can ask the watch officer for ranges and bearings to target on the surface. Mark the spot where you are now. (probably the most hectic part of this) Add the bearing to your current course and subtract any multiples of 360 if you can. Then draw a line on the map from the previously recorded position, in that calculated direction and to the range quoted by the watch officer. Do this several times with multiple minutes apart. 3 minutes 15 seconds as minimal interval is a nice magic number to start with. If you do 4 of those you end up at 13 minutes. And should give a good indication of the path of the target. And the distance between the endpoints of the line (in kilometers) should show a measure of the target speed, 4 times the speed in knots divided by 10. If you want to know, calculate how many meters something at 1 knot moves in 3 minutes, 15 seconds. If you do the above method, it might however be useful to include some quality of life mods if you don't have them. Stock SH3 doesn't have useful compas-wheels on the cursor tools. So plotting the line isn't as easy. Though you should be able to use the protactor tool to get the angle with reference to north/east/south/west when one leg is exactly horizontal or vertical. I made my own mod, best to enable it with the moding tool JSGME: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=3704 I'll await your response to hear if this is part of the journey you are stuck in. Or if it is beyond this point where you get lost. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

06-01-21, 10:22 AM	#6
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	GWX 3 is fine. Doesn't hurt to know how the vanila game works. But by it's popularity (GWX 3) you have the best chance of finding support from others. Just note that the JSGME contained with GWX 3 is outdated. To prevent possible mod setup corruption you might want to download and install/replace the JSGME executable. Yeah, at some point you just have to try it. Get into the deep (pun intended) and just see how far you get. Don't forget to read the big GWX 3 manual. It does contain a guides on how to manual target with their changed GUI layout. Not very different from vanilla, but clearer guidance than the stock manual provides. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

06-01-21, 04:35 PM	#9
bstanko6 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Murwik Naval Academy Posts: 2,122 Downloads: 390 Uploads: 13	There are many resources here to help you. If you’re looking for historical ways of attacking, you can click on my link below to my YouTube channel. If you’re looking for historical information, you can go just about anywhere here to get it. If any of my content doesn’t fit your needs, there are many people who have many different styles that they can share with you. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] BSTANKO6'S SH5 NAVAL ACADEMY http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPbe...W2NArCA/videos DISCORD https://discord.gg/6tFeTSUmVc

06-01-21, 10:13 AM	#5
shadowmoses Swabbie Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 5 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the reply Pisces! I appreciate you taking the time to answer me in a straight forward manner. In all honesty, I think the best idea for me to accurately reply to you is to experiment a bit more with the game. I currently have the game installed with GWX 3 mod for no particular reason. Maybe it's not a good mod for a beginner to this game or additional mods with more useful tools would be beneficial? I will certainly download your mod and experiment with it. I'll be back in touch after working on the key concepts you mentioned and see where my pitfalls lie. I have a feeling that experimenting will make me more comfortable with all the tools the game offers and I will develop speed and proficiency. Afterwards, I can enjoy the immersive experience of the game. The thought of stalking prey in the deep ocean is exhilarating. I can't wait! On a side note, I noticed that historically, U-boats would typically travel the surface of water under cover of night and perform surface torpedo attacks. Is that possible in this game? Thanks again for your reply and I'll reach out again when I can give you a more specific answer to your question.

06-01-21, 11:46 AM	#8
shadowmoses Swabbie Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 5 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Pisces Thank you very much for your insight/knowledge! I'm looking forward to challenging myself to learn much more about the total experience. The historical insight is great! I can see how more historical insight can create a more layered immersive experience. I watched "Das Boot" last night as well. What a killer soundtrack! I also checked out your link to the tools you have and they all seem pretty useful. I feel a lot more confident after talking to you and can't wait to head out on my journey as captain! Thank you sir!

06-01-21, 05:16 PM	#10
shadowmoses Swabbie Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 5 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Thank you very much! To be honest, I've stumbled across your channel in my searching and I love it! Your content is super-helpful and interesting. I would also like to start building a wealth of knowledge, including historical approaches, so that I can implement them in my toolkit. I particularly liked the video where you show off your setup where you play your games. I'm the type of person that would do something like that. I thought it was so cool how you did all of that stuff to add to the immersion of the experience. I will continue to use your resources to help me on my journey. Thanks for your help!