Time to upgrade...

[onelifecrisis]

I really wasn't sure where to post this. It's not got anything to do with SH3 Mods, but I figure the mods forum is where the techy types hang out.

Anyway it's time to replace my 5YO rig, but I'm a bit baffled by the new hardware options. Which is better - a standalone HD4850 graphics card, or a HD4550 in hybrid crossfire with a HD3200? Also, how much more powerful is a Phenom II X4 when compared with an Athlon II X4? Help plz.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Moved it here

Have fun with the upgrade. Plan to do the same sometime next year. I
will wait until after SH 5 comes out.

[onelifecrisis]

Oh, duh, I didn't even see this forum here. Thanks RDP!

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Oh, duh, I didn't even see this forum here. Thanks RDP!

No problem, have a good one

[AVGWarhawk]

Look at the speeds of the processors. Such as my Phenom X4 9850 are 2.5Ghz in speed. However, I believe that is x4 now as you have 4 processors working for you. I'm not an ATI fan and like Nvidia. Go no lower than a 9800GT in my opinion. Do not be afraid of a 64bit OS. I run it and love 64bit. I run 8 gig of RAM with the 64bit. Question for you, wait for windows 7 or use Vista? I have Vista and it is a good OS in my opinion. I do not have troubles with it at all. Windows 7 will be out shortly so maybe spend the time getting your hardware then purchase when 7 is out.

[onelifecrisis]

7 won't run older games, so I'll be sticking with Vista (which, hopefully, will). If I could have it my way I'd have XP with DX10, but M$ decided to make DX10 Vista only so I guess I'll have to wave goodbye to XP.

[bybyx]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

I really wasn't sure where to post this. It's not got anything to do with SH3 Mods, but I figure the mods forum is where the techy types hang out.

Anyway it's time to replace my 5YO rig, but I'm a bit baffled by the new hardware options. Which is better - a standalone HD4850 graphics card, or a HD4550 in hybrid crossfire with a HD3200? Also, how much more powerful is a Phenom II X4 when compared with an Athlon II X4? Help plz.

Hello OLC. I like this topic of yours.
I will start by asking the most important question. How big is the budget for your pc? The second most important is. For what purpose will you use it? And another: From where are you going to buy the rig? A link to some sites in UK will help.
Here's my two cents:
When you buy a new rig it is always good to plan ahead. I personally take my time and buy when a completely new generation comes to the market. Why? Because after 2 years or so I can upgrade my rig without the need to start from scratch. Having a latest generation motherboard and a good PSU will allow you, 2 years from now, to upgrade 2 or 3 parts like CPU, Ram, Video Card and give a new life to your PC. For example I bought a PC in 2004 when I started my PHD studies in Geography because I was in need of a more potent PC for working with maps, and for playing DOOM3, Far Cry and HL2. In 2006 I replaced the, Cpu, Video Card and added 1gb of Ram. I could do all this because the motherboard and PSU could support the newer and more power hungry parts parts. In my opinion the priority of the parts in a PC is:
1. See what you can use from you current rig ( optical drives, FDD, a HDD for storage etc.) I still have in my PC the 2004 CD-RW and DVD-RW.
2. Motherboard. A good motherboard is more reliable and it allows you to place more powerful components and in generally it makes the computer run more smoothly. Also an advanced motherboard is ideal for overclocking
3. PSU. Provides power to the entire rig. A good quality PSU will ensure stability, protection and enough juice for the components in a PC, especially for the power hungry Video Cards.
4. CPU. You need a good CPU to run different applications faster. Also having a powerful CPU is not enough. You will need fast RAM,fast HDD and fast Video Card. There is a need for balance between these components. You can have the most powerful CPU, but a crappy Video Card will slow the PC down and vice versa. Sadly a lot of games are CPU bounded and not VGA bounded.
5. RAM. The more ram you have the better. Choose Ram that will go with the motherboard. Fast Ram is great.
6. Hdd. Is better to have more than one. If the budget allows buy a really fast one for OS, programs and games and a standard one slower but with large capacity for storage. The Hdd is the slowest part in a PC.
7. Video Card.(VGA) This one is a bitch. A powerful card is expensive, two are even more expensive.
8. Case. A PC needs ventilation in order to keep the temperature down. Heat for a PC is bad. A big case is necessary for a powerful rig.
9. Sound Card goes hand in hand with the loudspeakers. If you want excellent sound buy excellent sound card and speakers.
The rest like optical drives, Fdd( really buy one! is very cheap and you never know when you will need one) mouse, keyboard, mouse pad, display are more of a "Chacun a son gout"

Hope it helps!

[Fluffysheap]

I'd probably get XP and then upgrade to Windows 7 later. Everybody hates Vista although, in reality, Windows 7 is not going to be that different. Unless you have some DX10 thing you want to use right now though, there's no good reason to get Vista. You can still find XP and OEM versions of XP are pretty cheap.

640GB is a small drive by today's standards, but it depends on what you do. I have 3TB total but then, I also use my PC as a media server. A friend of mine has 500GB and only does games and the web and his drive is still half empty. If you mostly care about games 640GB will be OK.

It's hard to upgrade RAM nowadays... it's not like the old days where you could just stick in more RAM and have it work. Now all the RAM in a system has to "match" so you pretty much have to take the old RAM out when you put in new. I tried to upgrade from 2GB to 4GB and I even made sure to get the same part number of RAM, but it wouldn't work because the manufacturer had changed the voltage rating on the memory without changing the part number!

Whether to get 2GB or 4GB depends on what you are doing. If you just want to run games and you don't plan on doing any funny business, then 2GB is probably enough for now. But if you want to do something like leave your web browser open with a couple dozen tabs while you play, or use non-game apps that are big memory users (photoshop, modeling programs, whatever), you'll be happier with 4GB. Even though any one program in a 32-bit system is limited to 2GB of memory, the extra RAM will allow you to multitask better. Plus, the OS takes up half a gig nowadays. But most importantly, RAM is cheap - to go from 2GB to 4GB will cost you $30 and save you an upgrade a year from now when it starts to matter. The downside is that, without 64-bit OS, you can't use the whole 4GB. (Well 32-bit Linux can, and Server 2003, but you're not going to use either of those for games!)

One last thing, be sure to get a good power supply. This can have a significant impact on your system stability and upgradability. Overall, power supply quality is improving in the sense that a medium-priced PSU can now be as good as a really good one from a couple years ago; but a cheap power supply will suck as much as ever.

Edit: Awesome! I look like Popeye now!

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

I'd probably get XP and then upgrade to Windows 7 later. Everybody hates Vista although, in reality, Windows 7 is not going to be that different. Unless you have some DX10 thing you want to use right now though, there's no good reason to get Vista. You can still find XP and OEM versions of XP are pretty cheap.

I actually have an OEM version of XP but it came with my old Alienware. I assume that if I try to install it on my new PC then something will go tits up?

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

640GB is a small drive by today's standards, but it depends on what you do. I have 3TB total but then, I also use my PC as a media server. A friend of mine has 500GB and only does games and the web and his drive is still half empty. If you mostly care about games 640GB will be OK.

Trust me, I will never get anywhere near 640Gb. I don't store music or videos on my PC, I just use it for work and games, and I tend to play only a few games at any given time. My old HDD is a 70Gb drive and I rarely used more than two thirds of it.

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

It's hard to upgrade RAM nowadays... it's not like the old days where you could just stick in more RAM and have it work. Now all the RAM in a system has to "match"...

That's not actually new. 9 years ago I upgraded the RAM in a system of mine and was told back then that I had to match the current RAM exactly (manufacturer and everything) so I did. It's not a big problem IMO as long as you know exactly what kind of RAM you have.

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

...but if you want to do something like leave your web browser open with a couple dozen tabs while you play...

I find the very suggestion of such behaviour to be horrifying! Seriously, I do not do that. I hate stutter in games and will close everything (even system services) to ensure a smooth game. That's a long-time habit and not likely to change. So, from what you say it sounds like I'll be good with 2Gb.

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

One last thing, be sure to get a good power supply...

LOL, we x-posted on that methinks

[onelifecrisis]

Ahh, google is my friend.

http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42918

[CaptainHaplo]

Onelife - seriously reconsider the 450W ps...

The 4850x2 alone requires a 650W ps. You try hooking it to a 450, your going to have problems.

With the rig your looking at - a 750 or 850 Watt is probably a better long term option.

DO NOT SKIMP ON THE PS! I suggest something like Corsair or other high end, quality PS.

I just picked up a 750W Corsair for $120. Can't beat that when it has a 5 year warranty.

Processor questions have already been addressed. As for vid cards, I have used both Nvidia and ATI, have been on ATI for most of the recent years, but went ahead and got a GTX260 OC'd out of the box by BFG. Lifetime warranty - $200. So far, I haven't been able to force ANYTHING I playunder 60fps. (But dang that thing was HUGE!)

For Crossfire/SLI - you have to have 2 pci-e X16 slots - and usually you have to use the same family of cards... Like 2 GT9800's - but not a 9800 and an 8800. Going with an X2 style board is fine as long as you make sure your Mainboard has the room for it without losing additional slots because they are covered.

More memory is always good. If you choose 32 bit OS though, don't get over 4. It can't address it.

No reason not to go 64 bit UNLESS you run really old stuff. Then, you have dosbox. 7 is definitely the way to go regardless. Its what Vista should have been years ago.

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks bybyx. I am a few steps ahead of you I think.

I can use the peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor) and optical drives from my old PC as well as (if needed) the sound card. With this in mind I've shopped around and the best sites I've found so far are www.pcspecialist.co.uk (excellent) and www.cyberpowersystems.co.uk (also very good). The former has a deal on 4850X2 cards, and I've put together this system for £587 including VAT and delivery:

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2
CPU: Intel® Core™i5
GPU: 1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 4850X2 (considerably more powerful than a GTX 260 or even a GTX 280, but priced amazingly because of their special offer)
RAM: 2GB DDR3 1600MHz (another 2GB would push the price past my £600 limit)
HDD: 250GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
O/S: Windows Vista Home Basic (32bit)
PSU: High Quality 450W PSU

It has no peripherals and no optical drives.

Their site has a neat feature where you choose your custom build and it works out how much power you'll need (it even adds a 20% contingency to be safe). Also their PSU's are good quality ones, judging by the prices they're charging for them (PSUs are the only thing on the site that aren't amazingly well priced) which I find reassuring given that my old PC has blown 3 PSUs in the last 3 weeks.

Also, with the build above I get a free copy of Operation Flashpoint 2 which is a nice bonus since that's one the games I wanted a new rig for.