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Old 02-15-2014, 05:38 AM   #46
TheGeoff
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Version 0.17 released!
Download here: http://goo.gl/cRdSoM

Changes:
  • Changed the periscope view completely. The low quality pseudo-3D view has been replaced by a clear, useful birds-eye view of the sea around your submarine. It displays the terrain and ships which would be visible from the periscope in reality and allows for precise targeting and visual tracking of torpedoes. The switch from (almost)3D back to a 2D view removes a huge barrier from the development of the sim and I think the end result is a whole lot more useful, realistic and versatile.
  • Changed the tactical map in the weapons control panel. It now displays a much larger area around the submarine, and shows both radar and visual contacts. It looks a lot more authentic now too.
  • Added 6 different types of ship to the game. Now there are three types of cargo ship and three types of warship. Warships are still unarmed at the moment but that should change soon.
  • Changed the spotting mechanics - now you're not able to see the exact type and name of a ship until you get close to it and look through the periscope.
  • Changed the way the game handles keyboard inputs, completely removing the annoying input lag from earlier versions. The difference is massive - the controls now feel a lot more precise and responsive.
  • New radar contacts are now announced, and detecting a new radar contact will immediately disable fast travel mode.
  • Numerous bug fixes, mostly relating to water pressure and radiation sickness.

Also updated the screenshots in the first post of this thread to show off the new tactical map and periscope view!
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #47
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Hi Geoff,

I've been playing this for the weekend, and a couple of thoughts:

a) can there be an auto-navigation option, so instead of controlling the subs' movements, these are delegated to the navigation officer, a la SH3?

b) Can the crew give warnings about system failures instead of just 'a muffled bang was heard' or me having to carry out sweeps of the systems to find out if anything has broken yet? I'm sure a systems panel would throw up alerts for something as critical as the Reactor 1 coolant pump failing...

Also, are there any ways of dealing with major fires or radiation leaks, such as using the ventilation purge system, that I am unaware of?

Other than these queries, a good involving game!
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:41 AM   #48
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Hi Tango, thanks for the feedback. I definitely like the idea of an auto navigation system, since at the moment I think manually navigating long distances is probably the least interesting part of the game. I'll figure out a nice way to partially automate it and include it in a future version - I doubt it'll make the next release but I'll be adding it soon.

When an accident occurs aboard the sub, I want the player to feel the tension. It's tricky to find a balance between giving the player way too much information and not giving enough - but I agree, the current system is pretty unhelpful (not to mention unrealistic). In a future update I'll probably either expand the current system with more detailed warning messages or add a "Maintenance Control Panel" or similar which tells you at a glance where potential problems are.

When dealing with fires and radiation it's important to be prepared - it's often best to equip some of the more skillful crew with fire extinguishers, gas masks, chemical suits etc at the start of the game so when something goes wrong they're ready to deal with the problem immediately. Equipment and crew experience makes a big difference in this game. Another decent way to extinguish a fire without risking any crew is to evacuate the room, seal the doors, close the vents and wait till the fire dies from lack of oxygen. I've read that British submarines have some kind of foam-based fire suppression system, I might add something like that soon too.

Purging the ventilation system is meant to allow you to remove radiation and replenish oxygen throughout the sub while you're on the surface. It's way too slow at the moment but I've tweaked it a bit so it'll be a whole lot more effective in the next version.

It's encouraging to see so many people interested in the game! This version already has twice as many downloads as every other version put together
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:59 AM   #49
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Cheers for the reply Geoff, that is some useful information. I found out it is a BAD idea to forget to close the ventilation system before diving, I ended up with severe rising damp!

Would you be interested in writing, or having someone else write (if given the bare bones details), a more comprehensive manual, as there is a lot of stuff i'm not sure about, such as the effects of altering the reactor pump speeds combined with altering the control rod levels to adjust the power output, or how to pump flood water out of your sub?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:36 AM   #50
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As another thought, would the sub have emergency bilge pumps for the removal of flood water? I ask because to rapidly estinguish a fire in the fore torpedo room that I couldn't seal off due to the bulkhead door being destroyed, I locked all adjoining doors, opened the torpedo room vents and flooded the room. This put the fire out fast but i am unsure how to remove the excess water from the boat, which was now sitting on the sea bed at 30M deep.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:04 AM   #51
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Hi TheGeoff really enjoying the the new functionality
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango589 View Post
Cheers for the reply Geoff, that is some useful information. I found out it is a BAD idea to forget to close the ventilation system before diving, I ended up with severe rising damp!

Would you be interested in writing, or having someone else write (if given the bare bones details), a more comprehensive manual, as there is a lot of stuff i'm not sure about, such as the effects of altering the reactor pump speeds combined with altering the control rod levels to adjust the power output, or how to pump flood water out of your sub?
There is a small game guide included in the zip file, called guide.txt. It has a description of most of the subsystems on the submarine and has rough guidelines and advice on how to use them best. It's very outdated now though, it was written for about version 0.09 and definitely needs an overhaul. I'll rewrite it soon as a proper pdf manual with diagrams and screenshots I think.

And yes, bilge pumps (or some way to reduce flooding) are badly needed! I'll be adding them soon, definitely in one of the next two updates.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:51 PM   #53
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Ooops, I just realised that I've never read the manual past the key bindings section. The rest of the manual does indeed answer many of my questions.

Whilst I'm playing this, my mind is whirling with things that could improve it; I've already posted a couple here so far. Others include hostile aircraft that are armed and can cause you damage (you've already said armed warships are a possibility, the aircraft would just be faster moving sprites that are not torpedo-targetabble.) Also, sound effects would boost the atmosphere. Some general submarine-like hubbub would be good, along with clankings when repairs are being carried out, and alarms to signify emergency situations. A good list of appropriate alarms can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarms_...ed_States_Navy
with downloadable sound effect files for you to listen to (in .ogx format).

Personally I would have the Diving alarm/Cow Fart for diving, Collision alarm for collision/flooding, Missile Jettison for fire/radiation, Missile Emergency for inbound aircraft (if you are on or near the surface with radar on) and Power Plant Casualty for mechanical failures.

Hopefully my ideas are of some use, otherwise feel free to ignore them and write them off as the product of a fevered imagination.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:41 PM   #54
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Your ideas are definitely useful, I love hearing suggestions to improve the sim

Aircraft will definitely be in the game, both fixed wing and helicopters, as they have a unique and vital role in modern naval warfare. At first I'll probably add anti submarine aircraft and patrol aircraft like the P-3 Orion, Nimrod, IL-38 and Breuget Atlantic but many more will eventually be added, including carrier-based aircraft and helicopters. I'm not aware of any widely used submarine launched anti-air weapons so I don't think it will be possible for the player to engage hostile aircraft. But they will definitely pose a threat, and will make operating near enemy coastlines a lot more difficult.

Armed warships are not just a possibility, they're already in the next version and seem to be working pretty well! Currently there are destroyers with 5" cannons, frigates with anti-shipping missiles and cruisers with both. They fire at you if your submarine is surfaced within visual range, and I'm looking at the possibility of adding some kind of torpedo or ASROC for surface vessels to attack submerged submarines when they are detected on sonar.

Sound effects would be great but it's often difficult to find high quality free ones. That wiki link is very useful though and I'll definitely be using some of those alarm sounds.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:51 PM   #55
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I might be missing something really simple, but can anyone tell me in wasy to follow steps how to change my ships nationality? It's all well and good being a Ruskie but I would prefer to be British, what?
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:47 PM   #56
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Open gameoptions.ini and change player_nation to whatever you want. At the moment the following nations should work:

USSR
USA
China
Italy
Turkey
Japan
India
Pakistan
Philippines
Argentina
Australia
South Africa
Libya
Israel

Other nations will not work at the moment because they do not have a valid port to start at. Unfortunately, both of the ports I placed in Britain seem to be nonfunctional for some reason, so attempting to start with player_nation=United Kingdom will cause the game to freeze. I'll fix this for the next version. Since there have been quite a few downloads from Germany, France, Spain and Poland I'll also add ports there.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:00 PM   #57
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Thanks, I knew it had to be something simple!
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:53 AM   #58
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Version 0.18 released!
Link: http://goo.gl/3bcZ4K

Changelog:
  • Added ability for hostile warships to fire at the player's submarine. If the submarine is visible from the surface hostile warships will engage with 5" cannons and / or guided anti-ship missiles (depending on the type of ship). Some of these weapons can engage you from beyond visual range so keep an eye on the radar and don't surface in hostile waters unless absolutely necessary!
  • Added the foundations of the noise and stealth modelling system. From the Maneuver control panel it is now possible to check how much of the submarine is visible above the surface and how much noise the submarine is making.
  • Significantly improved AI in situations where there is fire nearby or a lack of oxygen. The crew won't stand around with their pants on fire and wait for orders any more, they'll move to safety. If the entire compartment they are assigned to is ablaze or low on oxygen they will retreat to a safe location and wait for further orders. If they are ordered to complete a specific task, however, they will bravely do so regardless of the risks.
  • Electrolysis of water to produce oxygen and hydrogen is now simulated. This allows you to slowly replenish the ship's oxygen supply while submerged - the system is controlled from the Misc Systems Control Panel. It uses a significant amount of electrical power to operate, so it might be wise to switch it off when not required.
  • Fixed the ventilation system so it's a whole lot more effective now. A side effect of this is that radiation spreads more quickly is the system gets contaminated.
  • Added a system damage summary to the Misc Systems Control Panel. It shows you at a glance which systems are damaged and if immediate repairs are necessary or not. Items shown in white are non-critical (eg. broken screen on a control panel, dented case on diesel generator) and red items are critical (radioactive coolant leak, fuel leak with risk of fire etc).
  • Added nine new cities / ports (Marseille, La Rochelle, Devonport, Glasgow, Kiel, Rostock, Barcelona, Gdansk, Warsaw) and one new nation (Poland). This means it is possible to play as a submarine from France, United Kingdom, West Germany, East Germany, Spain or Poland now, in addition to the existing options (listed earlier on this page)
  • Numerous other bug fixes.

Enjoy
(and keep those suggestions coming if you think of anything cool to add!)
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:43 AM   #59
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Keep them coming, I'm loving it so far because you're no longer shooting fish in a barrel, the fish can now shoot back! In addition to the possible inclusion of a fire suppression system and bilge pump system to pump out flood water whilst submerged, would it be possible to pull into a friendly port and have torpedoes replaced and existing damage (especially to the outer hull) repaired, so you are once again good to go? This would make for an interesting limp back to a friendly base after sustaining heavy damage, whilst avoiding detection by enemy vessels and aricraft. Also, sonar/hydrophone functionality is essential for shipping detection, albeit limited, when completely submerged.

This could be useful for sound effects http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=206077

edit: re the fire suppression system, i reckon it really would need to prevent a fire for 30 mins - 1hr, as I've just had a killer time with a fire in the torp room whilst submerged to 14 metres. The fire destroyed one of the fuel bins as well as breaching the pressure hull letting in water and putting the fire out. I surfaced the boat draining the water out and sent someone in to repair the fuel bin. A large fuel fire broke out, killing my repairman. I had dive to 1 metre, flooding the room and extinguishing the fire, then resurfacing to drain it again, then send in another repairman. Repeat steps with repairman, fire, death, flood, drain, repair, fire etc until I'm running out of sailors!

Oh, what to do?

I can't wait for version 0.19!!!

further edit: Given your list in post #1, here is my list of importance.

- User interface realistic subsystem panels would increase the realism, rather than a screen of plain text

- Realistic modelling of submarine systems we've already discussed a couple of good ideas

- Graphics a bit less blocky and a bit more realistic is always welcome

- Realistic modelling of environment (water physics etc)undersea currents/thermal layers could be a possibility

- Lots of missions escort or surveillance missions would mix things up nicely

- Setting (WWII / cold war / modern) personally I like the current modern setting

- Historical accuracy
- Lots of different playable submarines

these last 2 are 'as and when' for me.

Rock on!
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:07 AM   #60
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Good suggestions Tango! I'll definitely be adding the ability to have your sub repaired and rearmed at a friendly port (and any injured or sick crew treated at a hospital). That will hopefully add more of a sense of persistence - eventually this could grow into a full campaign-type mode, with a persistent boat and crew which you lead through an entire war... that's definitely a long term goal though.
And sonar is of course going to be added soon, it's probably the most important sensor in submarine warfare so that's definitely a priority. Environmental effects like thermal layers will be added at the same time as the sonar. I haven't found a lot of information about what sonar displays actually look like though... I've read a lot about 'waterfall' displays etc but can't find many reference images or videos. I'm not sure how realistic the displays in Dangerous Waters are but I'll probably end making something similar looking unless I can find better info elsewhere.

Thanks for the sound effect link, I'll see what I can find. Like most features, the sound system will probably be rolled out slowly over a few updates - I'll almost definitely start introducing them in the next update. It will definitely always be possible to play the game without sound though - I want to make sure you won't be missing any important information if you play with the sound off. It's purely for immersion.

Fires in the torpedo room are incredibly dangerous at the moment because the torpedoes tend to explode and kill your firemen before you get a chance to extinguish them. Hopefully the fire suppression system will help balance this a bit. At the moment my recommendation is to make sure the best firefighter on the ship is assigned to the torpedo room with a fire extinguisher and gloves, and set the oxygen level for the ship to lower than normal to slow down the rate the fire spreads. Normal air has 21% oxygen, but on real submarines they use around 18% oxygen for exactly this reason. I'm not sure why the fuel bin kept catching fire in your case though, it should only happen once - sounds like a bug to me.

It's funny you mention using realistic panels, that's something I've been thinking about adding for a while. Maybe I'll introduce them as an optional feature soon too. I'm not sure how easy it will be to accurately convey information but who knows, maybe it'll be better than the current system. It certainly would look a lot better!

And as for other mission types, adding a surveillance type mission wouldn't be hard. Most other types will have to wait until later, when the behaviour of AI ships is significantly improved. I also plan to add missile submarines later, which will of course be assigned different missions to the attack submarines.

Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions!
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