Swedish navy chasing foreign sub

[ikalugin]

Err do they exist in plans at least? I mean weren't visbys going through the helicopter capability upgrade as recently as 2012?

Also I think you still have issue with arty, so my guess is that the budget cuts haven't been merciful on anyone.

P.s. what is the point in visby if the only ASW weapon it has is 400mm tubes?

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by mapuc

She is, there are however a big advantage in using a Helicopter for ASW than a boat, like the Visby.

A sub can't hear the helicopter, not before the sonarbouy starts to binging(or what it is called) A ship can be heard, even if it doesn't go fast.

Markus

If the reports of coming to the surface for air and or charging batteries are true then it can't be a nuclear submarine.

as for ASW helicopters or patrol planes ... a submarine can hear low flying aircraft depending on the depth of the sub. American subs have hindsight sonar on a scope to listen to the baffles.

This whole thing should be awake up call for Sweden to get serious about ASW.

Don't the Swedish have subs that can take a quick search around?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

If the reports of coming to the surface for air and or charging batteries are true then it can't be a nuclear submarine.

as for ASW helicopters or patrol planes ... a submarine can hear low flying aircraft depending on the depth of the sub. American subs have hindsight sonar on a scope to listen to the baffles.

This whole thing should be awake up call for Sweden to get serious about ASW.

Don't the Swedish have subs that can take a quick search around?

True, when a helicopter get lower the rotor makes "pressure" on the water which can be heard(If I remember it correctly)
The Swedish Navy know this and therefor they got only so and so low before they lowered the sonarbouy.

It is a wake-up call for the Swedish politician.

Have read some chat questions and answer from some expert.

few of these question was "Is Russia preparing to invade Sweden?"
The expert: No

My thought about all this

If it is a Russian sub, it is there for two reasons

1. Replace old equipment
2. Testing the Swedish navy's ASW-possibility

I guess it is number 1, ´cause this sub got into trouble and now it try to escape into international waters, where this Ns Concord await.

Markus

[mapuc]

"Russian main transmitter may have started operation"

This is one of the headlines on aftonbladet.se(Swedish news paper)

a very interesting article.

Markus

[ikalugin]

Would you care to provide a quick overview of this article then? That would be most interesting to read

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Would you care to provide a quick overview of this article then? That would be most interesting to read

Ohh sorry

Used google translate

"A military Combat Boat ran on a Russian head transmitter that floated to the surface.

It should have been the starting point for the entire operation Armed Forces now engaged in the Stockholm archipelago, according to an unverified source.

- This is credible and reasonable tasks, says Göran Frisk retired commodore and former submarine hunter.

Last Friday, a Combat Boat from the Armed Forces have been driving on an object in the Stockholm archipelago, a form of Russian main transmitter, which have been stuck under water, detached and floated to the surface, according to a source.

This information is not verified, but so interesting and informed that they are not going to overlook.

- It was a Combat Boat 90 which collided with what they first thought was a submarine, but later turned out to be a fixed installation that cut through and floated to the surface in the Stockholm archipelago, said Aftonbladet source to reporter John Stambro.

The object that will be half a meter in diameter, roughly, is taken care of and are now in a military area.

This should have been found on Friday, and was the start of the operation to the Armed Forces announced that it is carrying out in the Stockholm archipelago.
a source.

The hunt is about transmitters
According to Aftonbladet source, it is mainly more Russian transmitter sought on the sea floor right now.

Yesterday was cordoned an area at the entrance to Nynashamn, next Nåttarö, of the civilians. No one was allowed to approach more than 10,000 feet for several hours. From a distance they looked big three corvettes HMS Visby, Sundsvall and Stockholm, and according to Aftonbladet source, the Armed Forces at the time to have made several discoveries of Russian transmitter.

The source says that the search also affects mini-submarines and military personnel, but that the primary race is about transmitters.

Göran Frisk retired commodore and former submarine hunter, saying that the information is credible. The Russian emergency signal that Swedish Dagbladet last weekend stated to have been sent on Thursday could from just such Russian transmitters according to Aftonbladet found in the archipelago

- These communication buoys attached to submarines. They send coded signals to satellites about everything from diesel fuel leakage, fuel problems and Spetsnazförband. The Russian military system is very centrally controlled, the Russians systematically communicate between each other, says Göran Frisk.

"Driving on a light buoy"
The likelihood is great that the three observations Armed Forces assessed as credible evidence of foreign underwater operations during Sunday's press conference is about both Russian transmitter - and the submarine image as "Erik", 27, took the south of Jungfrufjärden Göran Frisk believe

- Then one begins this kind of operation Have communications buoys been torn off it is hard for the submarine right now.

Supreme Commander Sverker Goranson says that data as far as he knows is wrong.

- I know you hit a light buoy, something else I do not know, so I do not know where it comes from, he says.

Have you driven on any installation that are not Swedish?
- I do not want to go into what we found or reports we receive in detail. Therefore, we must content ourselves with the presentation we had. For operational security reasons, we keep things to ourselves. "

Markus

[Type941]

So basically Russian boat was towing/replacing some spying equipment, **** went south, Swedes saw it and trying to find it, and Russians put ships nearby to grab it too but looks like it's a goner and Swedes have it.

is that the TLR version of Swedish article?

[ikalugin]

Could it be that some old Intel gathering equipment was faulty and left the sea bed? And thus wiped the Swedes into searching for more of those?

[Jimbuna]

Gets me wondering just how poorly prepared and equipped some NATO members are for similar eventualities.

Granted, Sweden is not a member and hardly has much if any past history this century as being anything other than a neutral.

[daft]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Could it be that some old Intel gathering equipment was faulty and left the sea bed? And thus wiped the Swedes into searching for more of those?

Could be, but intelligence gathering equipment like that is rarely designed to float to the surface. But I don't know.

The Defence Forces called an extra press conference at 1300 today which got speculation going. Turns out, they just wantef to say that some of the ships will now anchor at Berga for maintenance and repairs while a small contingent remains at sea. They call this a new phase. To me it feels like a clear indication the reported observations has turned up nothing and that it is now time to scale back and then call off the operation.

[daft]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Gets me wondering just how poorly prepared and equipped some NATO members are for similar eventualities.

Granted, Sweden is not a member and hardly has much if any past history this century as being anything other than a neutral.

The waters in the archipelago are really difficult to search in. A small submersible with enough endurance can hide on the bottom in cracks and crevices and remain virtually undetectable. If then manages to move to areas already searched it becomes even more difficult. I suspect that both passive and active sonar gives a lot of clutter, and the murky waters make visual inspections with ROVs difficult as well.

[daft]

Ok, some of the ships that anchored at Berga earlier today are on the move again. A naval spokesperson said that time is on our side. Our adversary can't stay below forever, sooner or later they need to pop up to breathe. Suddenly it sounds like the navy is confident they have whatever it is contained and it's now just a matter of waiting it out, hence the corvettes moving back to base. This is all speculation on my part, and 99% likely to be wrong. It would however fit if the sub started to make move now that darkness has fallen.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by daft

Could be, but intelligence gathering equipment like that is rarely designed to float to the surface. But I don't know.

The Defence Forces called an extra press conference at 1300 today which got speculation going. Turns out, they just wantef to say that some of the ships will now anchor at Berga for maintenance and repairs while a small contingent remains at sea. They call this a new phase. To me it feels like a clear indication the reported observations has turned up nothing and that it is now time to scale back and then call off the operation.

I was talking about anchored equipment and the archor breaking.

[daft]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I was talking about anchored equipment and the archor breaking.

Indeed, could very well be.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Gets me wondering just how poorly prepared and equipped some NATO members are for similar eventualities.

If I remember correctly it looks very bad.

I in some exercises where Sweden where the hunted(Sub) the ships from NATO(USA, Netherland, England, Canada and some more) couldn't find it. When they was chasing subs from England, they found it, but with huge problems.
(by the way, in one execise from 2004 the Swedish Sub was disqualified not for cheating, it was for not being found-Heard that from a friend)


Edit. In exercises where Sweden was one of the hunter, the Swedish ship found the Sub almost immediately(that is until 2005, from thereon I have no clue how the execises have been going on for us the Swede)
Markus