This is a dedicated thread to list all the incorrect models

[shadow_wxh]

If you find any pushlished SH3 models that has been labeled to be a certain ship or class but do not match historical data please list them here.


Only the appreance of the 3D model is to be exam here,other text based parameter e.g. tonnage,draft,armor,renow,roaster does not count.


Format should be:


Picture of the 3D model,Parameters of the model


Picture of the real ship,Parameters of ther real ship,Description of the real Ship,Links extras etc.


Explaination of the mismatch.

[Anvar1061]

Good! We recognize, but what about the Campaign files?

[shadow_wxh]

Originally Posted by Anvar1061

Good! We recognize, but what about the Campaign files?

We can start an another thread for that. But the problem is,it is extreme difficult to track down all the ship when and where.So most the campaign file is small amount of historcal and large amount guessing not even to mentiong those random layer no way those are correct at all.


However there are some intorlerable errors:
Unit appear earlier that histroy
Aixes ship used by the allies vice versa
Aircraft partrol at night or have patrol distance of 5000km something
These are the ones I can think of for now.

[shadow_wxh]

Ok Here come the 1st defendend,


M35B = Empire Ship
M36B = Empire CAM Ship

This is the Model









MaxSpeed=13 Length=147 Width=18.1 Mast=30.1 Draft=6.9 Displacement=6850


These are the real ones:

EMPIRE BALFOUR - Cargo - Type Y7 - 7201GRT/9640DWT - 136.5 x 17.1 - 1944




EMPIRE BARDOLPH - Cargo - 7017GRT/10280DWT - 136.1 x 17.2 - 1943




Empire Ship have all kinds of classed and dimensions however this type is quite consistant build around 1941 onwards hundreds of them.The average length is 132m width 17m draft 8.2m
The model has about 15 meter longer in length and 1 meter wider and 1 meter shallow,the tonnage is also under estimated.You might argue that are you certain there isn't a longer Empire Ship? The thing is the longer Emire Ship looks like this:





EMPIRE CAPTAIN - Pass/Cargo - 9875GRT/11975DWT - 151.6 x 19.6 - 1944


A longer Empire Ship is usually a tanker or need an extra kingpost.Hundreds Empire Ship scaned the result is conclusive.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by shadow_wxh

Ok Here come the 1st defendend,


M35B = Empire Ship
M36B = Empire CAM Ship




MaxSpeed=13 Length=147 Width=18.1 Mast=30.1 Draft=6.9 Displacement=6850


These are the real ones:

EMPIRE BALFOUR - Cargo - Type Y7 - 7201GRT/9640DWT - 136.5 x 17.1 - 1944




EMPIRE BARDOLPH - Cargo - 7017GRT/10280DWT - 136.1 x 17.2 - 1943




Empire Ship have all kinds of classed and dimensions however this type is quite consistant build around 1941 onwards hundreds of them.The average length is 132m width 17m draft 8.2m
The model has about 15 meter longer in length and 1 meter wider and 1 meter shallow,the tonnage is also under estimated.You might argue that are you certain there isn't a longer Empire Ship? The thing is the longer Emire Ship looks like this:


EMPIRE CAPTAIN - Pass/Cargo - 9875GRT/11975DWT - 151.6 x 19.6 - 1944


A longer Empire Ship is usually a tanker or need an extra kingpost.Hundreds Empire Ship scaned the result is conclusive.

I am the creator of thee empire ship model. How dare you criticize!

Just kidding. Actually I hate that model. It's kind of like calling your own child ugly, but anyway....lol!

The model was created more than 10 years ago, when I was a new modeler. Back then were the "old days" of SH3 modding. Not many websites, not many research materials, and not much experience with modeling tools. The result? Crude-looking ships, with inaccurate features.

I will say that my old friend AG124, who created many of the other early modded ships, did great work with the materials we had back in the day. Sadly he has not posted on Subsim recently (he was studying law and very busy after about 2007). If he had continued modding he would have definitely produced marvelous results. Salute to him!

I did replace the Empire freighter with an improved model around 2009; unfortunately, it was never as popular as the old inaccurate model because it came out after the most popular supermods.

The good news is that work on my WWI mod is winding down at last, and my next project will be the Merchant Fleet Mod II for SH3 and SH4. That mod will aim to provide a new Empire Ship - in fact, new vessels to replace all of the mediocre ones I've made in the past. Plus a lot of new features & tricks to make sinking merchant ships much more interesting.

Anyway, good criticism, and carry on! I hope to have your input when this new project starts (if you're interested).

[shadow_wxh]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

I am the creator of thee empire ship model. How dare you criticize!
....
Anyway, good criticism, and carry on! I hope to have your input when this new project starts (if you're interested).

I knew you would be upset about this so would the other ship modellers.But it has be done.I am in the process of identifiy each every ship model in current SH3 database,give them proper name, assign them to the right contry ,make sure they show up in the right place at right time.Eventually making sure all registered ship models were real ships that did entere service during WWII and a leaset a few doezen individual record under each class.


It is also important too to do this so that sub fans and mod builder can have something to refer to when selecting new mod-what ship are good quality what ship you might think twice.They all looks good at first sight untill years later you find out you been playing with fake ships the whole time.


Those Empire Ship and CAM Ship isn't that bad though,very fat and juicy,love to sink them all the time, just a little over tolerance of errors,plays a major role in the merchant fleet and that is why it is important to get them right.Good to know you are continuing working on it.


I am no ship modeller myself dont have that artistic skill but I can help check everything else goes alright.


Keep up good work,Salute!

[J0313]

Originally Posted by shadow_wxh

I knew you would be upset about this so would the other ship moddellers.But it has be done.I am in the process of identifiy each every ship model in current SH3 database,give them proper name, assign them to the right contry ,make sure they show up in the right place at right time.Eventually making sure all registered ship models were real ships that did entere service during WWII and a leaset a few doezen individual record under each class.


It is also important too to do this so that sub fans and mod builder can have something to refer to when selecting new mod-what ship are good quality what ship you might think twice.They all looks good at first sight untill years later you find out you been playing with fake ships the whole time.


Those Empire Ship and CAM Ship isn't that bad though,very fat and juicy,love to sink them all the time, just a little over tolerance of errors,plays a major role in the merchant fleet and that is why it is important to get them right.Good to know you are continuing working on it.


I am no ship moddler myself dont have that artistic skill but I can help check everything else goes alright.


Keep up good work,Saulte!

He was joking with you, relax.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by J0313

He was joking with you, relax.

It's all OK! We are kidding with each other. I appreciate the criticism.

Another thing I have started doing that I didn't do before is using a "ruler" while modeling. Back in 2006-2008 when SH3 modding started, a lot of ships pretty much used guess work for length/width/height. For my WWI mod Wolves of the Kaiser I measure how many scale feet/meters a ship is in wings3d. I will do the same thing for all new WWII merchant ships. This is a good way to avoid strange-looking ships that are too thin/fat.

[shadow_wxh]

This Ship
OTMS = T3 Tanker or LTMS = T3 Tanker with Light
No idea what does OTMS mean


The Model:


Real Ship:

T3-S2-A1 USS CIMARRON AO-22




T3-S2-A1 USS Platte (AO-24)



T3-S-A1 USS Chiwawa (AO-68)


T3-S-A1 Syosset

T3-M-AZ1Brandywine (II)

Comparison:
Design Length × beam × draft
T3-S-A1 tanker, Chiwawa-class oiler 152.7 m × 20.7 m × 11.3 m
T3-S2-A1 tanker, Cimarron-class oiler 168.6 m × 22.9 m × 19.5 m
T3-S2-A3 tanker, Ashtabula class 168.6 m × 22.9 m × 19.5 m
T3-S2-A3 "jumboized" 196 m × 23 m × 19.5 m
T3-M-AZ1 tanker 167 m × 21 m x 19.5 m
T3-S-B tanker 157.2 m × 21.3 m x 19.5 m
OTMS (3DModel) 190.4 m × 30.3 m x17.5m


There are 6 sub types of T3 tanker obviously the model is after the most common T3-S2-A1.The S-A1 is significant smaller ,the S2-A3 only enter service after the war ended,other sub types have ditinctive different profile.The model is 21.8m longer 7.4m wider 2m short.
The ship funnel is too small.The deck house shape is totaly wrong.Mast and kingpost configuration does not match any exsiting ship.



Conlcusion:

I am totally shocked when I find out how wrong this can get. Any ship does not even follow basic dimension constraint have absolute no vaule worth keeping. All of them shall be dismantled and make room for new ships.

Any one wants to take the contract and get this ship reworked


P.s T3 tankers are exclusively American never lend lease to any other contry.

[iambecomelife]

Good points again. I plan to make several new heavy tanker variants, one of which will replace OTMS. This particular ship was recycled for SH4 and SH5, and equips several nations that did not really own similar ships.

When you get familiar with WWII merchant ships you'll notice that British, American, Japanese, & Norwegian tankers often had their own distinctive "look" - I'm not sure what tanker they were trying to portray with this. I personally would replace it with MV "Atlantic Sun" and her sisters - modern tankers built around 1941 and 11,355 GRT.


Lastly, one of my major pet peeves with simulation ship models? Crane/derrick boom position. Booms were almost always lashed fully up or fully down at sea, (as near to 90' angle or 0' angle as possible). This protected the ship from damage and also maximized how much deck cargo (locomotives, tanks, etc) could be carried - very important in wartime. A real crew never left the cranes sticking out in random directions. On the OTMS model (like a lot of other ships) the booms on the stern kingposts are dangling at a 45 degree angle or something similar. I suspect a lot of modelers see pictures of WWII merchants/tankers that were taken in port, and don't realize that cranes are at an angle because that is when they are needed for loading/unloading. May seem like a little thing, but an actual WWII convoy veteran commented to my favorite modeler that this is something amateur modelers often get wrong!

[Mister_M]

Interesting thread !

This game needs a lot of corrections !

[shadow_wxh]

AMM = Pryo Ammunition Freighter

Model Parameter
ClassName=AMM UnitType=102 MaxSpeed=15 Length=167 Width=15.8 Mast=35.2 Draft=8.8 Displacement=7025 RenownAwarded=370


Only two ships of this class


USS Pyro (AE-1)

Displacement 11,000 t.(lt) 14,110 t.(fl)
Length 147.24 m Beam 18.31m Draft 8.10m Speed 16 kts.





USS Nitro (AE-2)


Displacement 11,000 t.(lt) 14,110 t.(fl)
Length 147.47m Beam 18.61m Draft 8.10m Speed 16 kts.


Conclusion: This one is not even marginal resemble the real ship. The top configuration is wrong (model KKKMF - real MKKKMF) the dimension is wrong (by almost 20 meters!) the details are not even close.Strick out of register

[shadow_wxh]

CHH = Chatham Hospital Ship
CHT = Chatham Troop Transport

UnitType=103 MaxSpeed=15 Length=167 Width=12.3 Mast=37
Draft=9 Displacement=5640
RenownAwarded=300/-8000


Here Are the Models











Here is the real ship:


Name Chatham Type: Steam passenger ship Tonnage: 5,649 tons Completed1926 - Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co, Newport News VA

Owner: Merchants & Miners Transportation Co, Baltimore MD Homeport: Baltimore Date of attack: 27 Aug 1942 Nationality: American


Building Sheet of Chatham:



First of all the Parameter of the Model is completely wrong, the measured out come is as follows:
Length=140 Width=19.4 Mast=38.5 Draft=7.8

For ship size of this the displacement should be above 8000 even 10000.

It didnt say which Chatham it was moddelled after in the file but there isn't many passenger ship called "Chatham" during WWII and It can't be coincident that they all labeled 5640 ton GRT.So this has to be the one it was after ,it just moddeled very poorly.Another unqualified ship model.

[shadow_wxh]

This Ship
NCVW= Converted Whale Factory Ship


The Modle




Real Ship:




Tonan Maru No. 2 - 1942


Southern Empress




Svend Foyn


Notes:Convert Whale Factory Ship is not one particular class of ship but rather a whole range of ships sharing similar design and fuction.It is usally converted from a large tanker or cargo ship ,therefore the name "converted", into factory ship that process catched whales.Some of the distinct feature they usually have are a opening chute with ramp channel,so that the fish worker can drag cathed whale on to the ship, and split funnels in the back.This model features none of that.An interesting ship to add to the fleet however I must regret to say this model quality is rather poor.

[shadow_wxh]

This Ship
NDD_SU1=Type Dserschinski Destroyer


3D Model



Real Ship

Novik



Frunze




Bespokoyniy


Izyaslav


Notes: All the real ship shows crew quarters at the base between no.2 and no.3 funnels however the models shows between no.1 and no.2.The ship bridge is unrealistic large which mean no one can walk from the font deck to the rear deck without entering the bridge,it is unlikely any real ship will design like this.


Suggest replace this model with

DDNovik_3 = DD Novik ;made by Dagon, Vaa which represents a better model