GER politics thread - Page 6

Skybird · 02-26-17, 08:40 AM

^ But this trend for super state auuthprity is what drives the ordinary people away - sicne such construction, may it be the UN, may it be the EU, heavily violate the drive of most people to confess to theirt historiclaly grown feelings of idnetity and according rite, cultural behavour, value system. instead thes eorganisaiton create their own artifical, lifeless stil-birth of universlaistic values that expect people to identitfy with all mankind instea dof their social and cultural peer groups. It does nto work, it is against human nature. As i currently read in a fantastic book - the sam eproblem there alreayd was in Rome, it had tremendous inflouenc ein the fall of the firts republic.

Do not tell people to behave against their human nature and their desire to identitfxy themselves with what they call their home - you must lose if you nevertheless work against this nature, and must necessarily cause violent resistane to your "inhumane" claim sooner or later.

Living in Russia with its modern extremely strong form of nationalistic sentiment and pro-Russia-"cult"

, you should have no problems to see the truth in what I say.

----

Huch! Spies spy! The germans do it as well! Drama! TRAGEDY! SCANDAL...!!!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1136188.html

Oberon · 02-26-17, 09:11 AM

Tsk tsk, you're not allowed to spy, naughty Germans. We're only allowed to spy on you.

Besides, why spy on the BBC, it's 'fake news' remember?

ikalugin, you have a good point, but these German and French states did have the advantage of having some sort of cultural joint identity, in that they considered themselves French or German, but that doesn't tend to extend to the whole continent as much. People tend to think of themselves as country first continent second.

Skybird · 02-26-17, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

People tend to think of themselves as country first continent second.

Family first. Tribe next. Then neighbouring populations of close cultural roots. Then things like countries, empires, kingdoms.

Thats why the left - and the EU - is so determined to destroy the institution "family" as central key and core cell of the identity-providing social fundament. Already Lenin formulated that. They money is to be destroyed to destroy the fundament of capitalism. The family is to be destroyed as fundament of communal spirit and burgeouise identity. Both have to to be destroyed to create the space neeed for one collective, centrally controlled and defined test-tube-identity defined by the party/elite.

The people should not elect the leaders they want - the leaders instead want to create the people they demand.

ikalugin · 02-26-17, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Tsk tsk, you're not allowed to spy, naughty Germans. We're only allowed to spy on you.

Besides, why spy on the BBC, it's 'fake news' remember?

ikalugin, you have a good point, but these German and French states did have the advantage of having some sort of cultural joint identity, in that they considered themselves French or German, but that doesn't tend to extend to the whole continent as much. People tend to think of themselves as country first continent second.

I cannot be sure in case of the German state, but in case of the French state it is actually quite clear that they did not - that identity was created together with the French nation-state

A more recent example would be Ukraine - the national identity was enforced onto the population in one generation. Should EU survive and survive on the pre crisis trajectory for a generation - there would be a new identity out there (anti-Brexit protests sort of did show that process occuring, even though we observe early stages of it).

Skybird · 02-26-17, 07:08 PM

Identity tends to be something sticking to a people for generations and centuries - and that is how long it takes to form or change one. That it could be done shorter, metaphorically by pushing a button on some bureaucrat's desktop or by printing a stamp in some official formula (or drawing lines on a map in a different manner than bfeofre, for that matter), is the big illusion.

ikalugin · 02-26-17, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Identity tends to be something sticking to a people for generations and centuries - and that is how long it takes to form or change one. That it could be done shorter, metaphorically by pushing a button on some bureaucrat's desktop or by printing a stamp in some official formula (or drawing lines on a map in a different manner than bfeofre, for that matter), is the big illusion.

This was not strictly true in the past, this is even less true now.

French for example did not even share a single spoken language (this was introduced via mass media), Chinese still do not share a single spoken language (this is now being introduced via mass media).

If you want to see how fast modern nation building works in Europe now look no further than Ukraine. It managed to build itself into a nation-state in 25 years. The foundations of such a nation-state are simple:
- consistent historic myth creation.
- consistent falsification of culture.
- state sponsored and enforced distribution of the myth and culture.

Both myth and culture have to be simple in nature and hostile to any competition.

p.s. the ability to introduce culture/historic myth to vulnerable populations is especially clear in the post Soviet states, in addition to the nationalistic examples (Ukraine, Kazahstan, Belorussia, to lesser extend Russia as we adopted continuation of the existing structures) you get religious ones (spread of Islam to the atheist Dagestan for example).

p.p.s. to clarify - originally I wasn't talking about formation of a unitaric nation-state of Europe, I was talking about formation of a super state above nation-states of Europe which would provide certain services to the people of those nation-states that those nation-states could not. For example credible Armed Forces.

Skybird · 02-27-17, 06:49 AM

The Chinese are united by race. They are Han. Their sense of unity is very strong.

The regional feelings of identity in Europe you can see all across Europe. Despite the desperate attempt of EUcrats to ridicule or demonise them, local independence movements and sometimes even huge mass movements you can see all across Europe. France. Italy. Spain. Balkan. Alpine area. Switzerland. Denmark. Poland. At least over 60 political such movements are usually listed when talking about this, if you lower your numerical criterion from when on you count somethign as a movement, you even can end up with hundreds.

Then there are the shared roots of different languages (the Romanic, Germanic, Slavic branches of languages). The shared religious background, mainly - EU-denied - Christianity, although desintegrating into several sub factions like Catholic, Protestant, orthodox, Anglican. The dozens and dozens of regional local cultures, the more decisive these are the more isolated by terrain people are. In the Alpine area cou can get different identities this way from valley to valley already. The occident is diverse, still there is shared historic fundament in philosophy and patterns in which we think, feel, perceive and approach the world and life in general. At home we may feel in the family we are part of, then the village we come from, then the region where our dialect is being spoken.

I am member of my family, this is my most intensely felt identity. I love Lübeck, and I know Berlin since I lived there long (don't like it), nevertheless these places are dearer to me than others. If i were born more to the south, i would consider myself to be Bavarian, maybe. But then also German, the next wider context. I may feel close to an Austrian since we share a 98% identical language, but the Austrian history is that of a huge, multicultural empire, the German is not - the differences are immense, the social behaviour norms and standards as well as the self-perception are very different therefore (Germans often underestimate that when going to Austria, and think Austria is just like Germany, due to the language - it is not). Nevertheless we all are Europeans if we were born here and our families stem from here, still there are differences, and for people coming from another continent, culture, race, "Europe" nevertheless means somethign even more different again than for families rooted in Europe since many generations and centuries, even more so when the non-Europeans come from an own culture that different to the EU is very strict in advocating its own individual cultural identity. The Turks are an actual example. There is plenty, plenty of diversity in Europe. But if you put much of that into one train and drive to China, or Egypt, or the Kongo, you will soon see what the travellers on that train from Europe all have in common, and what separates them from all others, necessarily.

And Russia, the Sovjet Union - the dictators there often thought they could replace people at will and move whole ethnicities around like chess pawns. But the original feeling of identity prevailed, especially in the Muslim southern districts. You simplify too much there, ikalugin, in order to acchieve a wanted claim that man can be opportunistically manipulated and socially reprogrammed at arbitrary will (the will of the party, for example). You underestimate the individuality of people, ethnicities, cultures, identity. As they say: blood is thicker than water. In Europe, progressives may try to intentionally ignore that. In Russia, tyrants may want to ignore this diversity to claim more power for themselves when ordering the kind of self-perception they want their subordnates to have. But still - Russian feelings of "being Russian" seem to be extremely strong, try to retrain that: I am quite certain you would fail.

But especially in the places where most mass migration to Europe is coming from - the Muslim North Africa and Middle East and the Southern Balkan - people are much less self-denying, and feel such feelings of own identity even stronger, encouraged by the call of Islam for totalitarian uniformity: "power by uniformity". I cannot see that the progressive EU's social-engineered test-tube identity it provides poltically correct thinking people with (that claims nothign less than to not just speak for Europe but all mankind), has anything to offer that could confront these far stronger, energetic and dynamic self-unerstandings these foreigners bring with them. And that is the reason why Muslim migration fails to lead to successful integration throughout Europe. Its not migration in general that poses problems. Its migration from muslim countries, countries that already before Muhammad'S impact on the grounds of history were very patriarchalic and "machismo" and remained to be so until today. If you think you can socially re-engineer this to your liking as well, then you think wrong - like the EU and the politically correct establishments thinks wrong as well.

Skybird · 02-27-17, 07:34 AM

Not politics, but still: finally a precedence case has been laid out by a German court. For illegal car racing, which led to the killing of one innocent third car driver who had nothing to do with the two monkeys racing, both racers, who raced down the Kurfürstendamm in Berlin with 160 km/h and jumped several red traffic lights before smashing into the murder victim on the Tauentzien (near the famous KaDeWe), have been found guilty of MURDER and were sentenced to life. The deed took place one year ago, in February 2016.

Two of the things I have absolutely zero tolerance for, are drivers who drive drunk, and illegal racers on public streets.

A psychologist who tested both drivers, said they still show zero insight for their guilt. As so often with these kind of young men living on steroids and by a diat composed of narcissism bars, they insisted until the end that they had everything under control.

Which means, in reverse conclusion, that it was the mistake of the murder victim that it got killed. Thats the one point that has especially pissed me when i saw a report on it on TV some months ago.

The kill drivers were identified in the newspaper as Marvin H, 25 years, and Hamdi N., 28 years. The latter seems to be the one who crashed into his victim, as I recall it.

My mum's sister and here unborn baby and fresh husband got killed by a drunk primitive like these , 45 years ago. My own girlfriend and non-announced fiance got killed by such a drunk ape-thing as well, 30 years ago. He got his license back after just some months, and some time later again drove drunk, and again caused a heayv accident and injured several others.

I feel no mercy at all for these two.

ikalugin · 02-27-17, 08:06 AM

@skybird (because your post is too long to meaningfully quote).

We can agree to disagree then as civilised men.

What we can do is to make a fair wager, regarding the way the world is going. Is it reasonable to assume that you would live (and maintain intelectual capacity) for another 25 years? If so, then we can set formal conditions regarding the terms of the wager and a worthy price, maybe a bottle of high quality alcohol in my cellar (which would further improve from 25 years of being there)?

ikalugin · 02-27-17, 08:26 AM

http://csbaonline.org/research/publi...whole-and-free

Skybird · 02-28-17, 05:08 AM

Not Germany, but Netherlands, but still somewhat crucial for German foreign policy:

the Dutch parliament has ordered a study to exmaine whether the Euro currency really still is in the Netherölands' best interest, and if and how the country could leave the currency union. This decision comes two months before they have general elections in the country, and the results of that study will be presented later this year.

The Dutch start to feel the sting from Draghis plundering course and illegal state financing policy, pension fonds are beign cut and future pensioners will need to expct to get less money due to the ECB policy.

If the Dutch, often seen as the prime example of EU- and Euro-friendliness, decide to leave the Euro, it would send shockwaves through and a lethal signal to the Euro-zone, and Germany, would be even ore isolated in the Eurozone than ever before. The scale of such an exit compares to the Brexit. If not just Greece or Italy leaves, but the Netherlands, a net payer, then I think it is game over for the Euro. The Dutch have higher economy growth the Germany, and export twice as much goods per head than the Germans.

So after Greece, Italy, France, Spain, we now have a new potential ground zero for a megaexplosion of the EU/Euro .

English: http://www.reuters.com/article/nethe...-idUSL8N1G95BX

German: https://www.welt.de/finanzen/article...it-Europa.html

I read in financial news that investors' expectations that at least one country will leave the Euro within the next 12 months, has gone steeply upwards in recent weeks. Currently over 25% consider that to be the most likely going of events, tendency: steeply climbing further. The Eurocrisis, as they call it, of course nevr had gine away, nor was it under control. It was just violently hidden under the carpet - by moving more and heavier furniture onto that carpet. Now the floor threatens to break through.

Skybird · 02-28-17, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

@skybird (because your post is too long to meaningfully quote).

We can agree to disagree then as civilised men.

What we can do is to make a fair wager, regarding the way the world is going. Is it reasonable to assume that you would live (and maintain intelectual capacity) for another 25 years? If so, then we can set formal conditions regarding the terms of the wager and a worthy price, maybe a bottle of high quality alcohol in my cellar (which would further improve from 25 years of being there)?

25 years is a damn long time. Lets just disagree.

ikalugin · 02-28-17, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

25 years is a damn long time. Lets just disagree.

I mean 1/4 of a century is about 1 generation.

Jimbuna · 02-28-17, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Not Germany, but Netherlands, but still somewhat crucial for German foreign policy:

the Dutch parliament has ordered a study to exmaine whether the Euro currency really still is in the Netherölands' best interest, and if and how the country could leave the currency union. This decision comes two months before they have general elections in the country, and the results of that study will be presented later this year.

The Dutch start to feel the sting from Draghis plundering course and illegal state financing policy, pension fonds are beign cut and future pensioners will need to expct to get less money due to the ECB policy.

If the Dutch, often seen as the prime example of EU- and Euro-friendliness, decide to leave the Euro, it would send shockwaves through and a lethal signal to the Euro-zone, and Germany, would be even ore isolated in the Eurozone than ever before. The scale of such an exit compares to the Brexit. If not just Greece or Italy leaves, but the Netherlands, a net payer, then I think it is game over for the Euro. The Dutch have higher economy growth the Germany, and export twice as much goods per head than the Germans.

So after Greece, Italy, France, Spain, we now have a new potential ground zero for a megaexplosion of the EU/Euro .

English: http://www.reuters.com/article/nethe...-idUSL8N1G95BX

German: https://www.welt.de/finanzen/article...it-Europa.html

I read in financial news that investors' expectations that at least one country will leave the Euro within the next 12 months, has gone steeply upwards in recent weeks. Currently over 25% consider that to be the most likely going of events, tendency: steeply climbing further. The Eurocrisis, as they call it, of course nevr had gine away, nor was it under control. It was just violently hidden under the carpet - by moving more and heavier furniture onto that carpet. Now the floor threatens to break through.

If I were a gambling man I'd say Greece would be the first to leave post-BREXIT.

ValoWay · 02-28-17, 12:33 PM

The media has to stop giving racist nationalists a platform!

Quote:

While most Dutch voters say they favour retaining the euro, the eurosceptic far-right party of Geert Wilders is expected to book large gains though it is unlikely to win enough votes to form a government.

source:http://www.reuters.com/article/nethe...-idUSL8N1G95BX

There always were extreme right parties in Europe, America and around the globe.

Quote:

The party was founded in 1964 as successor to the German Reich Party (German: Deutsche Reichspartei, DRP). Party statements also self-identify the party as Germany's "only significant patriotic force".[12] On 1 January 2011, the nationalist German People's Union (German: Deutsche Volksunion) merged with the NPD and the party name of the National Democratic Party of Germany was extended by the addition of "The People's Union".[13]

source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rty_of_Germany

Just because the media reports more often now about scum like this doesn't mean things are any different than they were before. It is not the first time that there was a wave of Muslim refugees and immigrants in Germany. The first generation, those which were not born in Germany, will have a hard time to adapt to local lifestyle and culture but as soon as the as their children, the 2nd generation, are born and start to enter public schools the assimilation process will become drastic and apparent. Yes, it also means more reports of juvenile delinquency and racism for about a decade but that will eventually disappear.

I have studied this topic at university and think the main reason why the German government decided to take so many refugees was to guarantee the longevity of the German healthcare, retirement and pension system. It is a proven scientific fact that Germany desperately needs higher birthrates to upkeep the system which is more than likely the reason why they did it.

If you are a nationalists I suggest to think twice before you throw out everything that's foreign, cause it might pay for your rent once you're old and unable to work..

Children with a foreign background in German elementary schools are barely distinguishable from kids with native ancestors nowadays. The media simply has to stop fearmongering and stop acting like everything that happens was new and exclusive so that they can sell more copies..

02-26-17, 08:40 AM	#76
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	^ But this trend for super state auuthprity is what drives the ordinary people away - sicne such construction, may it be the UN, may it be the EU, heavily violate the drive of most people to confess to theirt historiclaly grown feelings of idnetity and according rite, cultural behavour, value system. instead thes eorganisaiton create their own artifical, lifeless stil-birth of universlaistic values that expect people to identitfy with all mankind instea dof their social and cultural peer groups. It does nto work, it is against human nature. As i currently read in a fantastic book - the sam eproblem there alreayd was in Rome, it had tremendous inflouenc ein the fall of the firts republic. Do not tell people to behave against their human nature and their desire to identitfxy themselves with what they call their home - you must lose if you nevertheless work against this nature, and must necessarily cause violent resistane to your "inhumane" claim sooner or later. Living in Russia with its modern extremely strong form of nationalistic sentiment and pro-Russia-"cult" , you should have no problems to see the truth in what I say. ---- Huch! Spies spy! The germans do it as well! Drama! TRAGEDY! SCANDAL...!!! http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1136188.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-26-17, 07:08 PM	#80
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Identity tends to be something sticking to a people for generations and centuries - and that is how long it takes to form or change one. That it could be done shorter, metaphorically by pushing a button on some bureaucrat's desktop or by printing a stamp in some official formula (or drawing lines on a map in a different manner than bfeofre, for that matter), is the big illusion. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-27-17, 06:49 AM	#82
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The Chinese are united by race. They are Han. Their sense of unity is very strong. The regional feelings of identity in Europe you can see all across Europe. Despite the desperate attempt of EUcrats to ridicule or demonise them, local independence movements and sometimes even huge mass movements you can see all across Europe. France. Italy. Spain. Balkan. Alpine area. Switzerland. Denmark. Poland. At least over 60 political such movements are usually listed when talking about this, if you lower your numerical criterion from when on you count somethign as a movement, you even can end up with hundreds. Then there are the shared roots of different languages (the Romanic, Germanic, Slavic branches of languages). The shared religious background, mainly - EU-denied - Christianity, although desintegrating into several sub factions like Catholic, Protestant, orthodox, Anglican. The dozens and dozens of regional local cultures, the more decisive these are the more isolated by terrain people are. In the Alpine area cou can get different identities this way from valley to valley already. The occident is diverse, still there is shared historic fundament in philosophy and patterns in which we think, feel, perceive and approach the world and life in general. At home we may feel in the family we are part of, then the village we come from, then the region where our dialect is being spoken. I am member of my family, this is my most intensely felt identity. I love Lübeck, and I know Berlin since I lived there long (don't like it), nevertheless these places are dearer to me than others. If i were born more to the south, i would consider myself to be Bavarian, maybe. But then also German, the next wider context. I may feel close to an Austrian since we share a 98% identical language, but the Austrian history is that of a huge, multicultural empire, the German is not - the differences are immense, the social behaviour norms and standards as well as the self-perception are very different therefore (Germans often underestimate that when going to Austria, and think Austria is just like Germany, due to the language - it is not). Nevertheless we all are Europeans if we were born here and our families stem from here, still there are differences, and for people coming from another continent, culture, race, "Europe" nevertheless means somethign even more different again than for families rooted in Europe since many generations and centuries, even more so when the non-Europeans come from an own culture that different to the EU is very strict in advocating its own individual cultural identity. The Turks are an actual example. There is plenty, plenty of diversity in Europe. But if you put much of that into one train and drive to China, or Egypt, or the Kongo, you will soon see what the travellers on that train from Europe all have in common, and what separates them from all others, necessarily. And Russia, the Sovjet Union - the dictators there often thought they could replace people at will and move whole ethnicities around like chess pawns. But the original feeling of identity prevailed, especially in the Muslim southern districts. You simplify too much there, ikalugin, in order to acchieve a wanted claim that man can be opportunistically manipulated and socially reprogrammed at arbitrary will (the will of the party, for example). You underestimate the individuality of people, ethnicities, cultures, identity. As they say: blood is thicker than water. In Europe, progressives may try to intentionally ignore that. In Russia, tyrants may want to ignore this diversity to claim more power for themselves when ordering the kind of self-perception they want their subordnates to have. But still - Russian feelings of "being Russian" seem to be extremely strong, try to retrain that: I am quite certain you would fail. But especially in the places where most mass migration to Europe is coming from - the Muslim North Africa and Middle East and the Southern Balkan - people are much less self-denying, and feel such feelings of own identity even stronger, encouraged by the call of Islam for totalitarian uniformity: "power by uniformity". I cannot see that the progressive EU's social-engineered test-tube identity it provides poltically correct thinking people with (that claims nothign less than to not just speak for Europe but all mankind), has anything to offer that could confront these far stronger, energetic and dynamic self-unerstandings these foreigners bring with them. And that is the reason why Muslim migration fails to lead to successful integration throughout Europe. Its not migration in general that poses problems. Its migration from muslim countries, countries that already before Muhammad'S impact on the grounds of history were very patriarchalic and "machismo" and remained to be so until today. If you think you can socially re-engineer this to your liking as well, then you think wrong - like the EU and the politically correct establishments thinks wrong as well. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-27-17, 07:34 AM	#83
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Not politics, but still: finally a precedence case has been laid out by a German court. For illegal car racing, which led to the killing of one innocent third car driver who had nothing to do with the two monkeys racing, both racers, who raced down the Kurfürstendamm in Berlin with 160 km/h and jumped several red traffic lights before smashing into the murder victim on the Tauentzien (near the famous KaDeWe), have been found guilty of MURDER and were sentenced to life. The deed took place one year ago, in February 2016. Two of the things I have absolutely zero tolerance for, are drivers who drive drunk, and illegal racers on public streets. A psychologist who tested both drivers, said they still show zero insight for their guilt. As so often with these kind of young men living on steroids and by a diat composed of narcissism bars, they insisted until the end that they had everything under control. Which means, in reverse conclusion, that it was the mistake of the murder victim that it got killed. Thats the one point that has especially pissed me when i saw a report on it on TV some months ago. The kill drivers were identified in the newspaper as Marvin H, 25 years, and Hamdi N., 28 years. The latter seems to be the one who crashed into his victim, as I recall it. My mum's sister and here unborn baby and fresh husband got killed by a drunk primitive like these , 45 years ago. My own girlfriend and non-announced fiance got killed by such a drunk ape-thing as well, 30 years ago. He got his license back after just some months, and some time later again drove drunk, and again caused a heayv accident and injured several others. I feel no mercy at all for these two. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-27-17, 08:06 AM	#84
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	@skybird (because your post is too long to meaningfully quote). We can agree to disagree then as civilised men. What we can do is to make a fair wager, regarding the way the world is going. Is it reasonable to assume that you would live (and maintain intelectual capacity) for another 25 years? If so, then we can set formal conditions regarding the terms of the wager and a worthy price, maybe a bottle of high quality alcohol in my cellar (which would further improve from 25 years of being there)? __________________ Grumpy as always.

02-26-17, 09:11 AM	#77
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Tsk tsk, you're not allowed to spy, naughty Germans. We're only allowed to spy on you. Besides, why spy on the BBC, it's 'fake news' remember? ikalugin, you have a good point, but these German and French states did have the advantage of having some sort of cultural joint identity, in that they considered themselves French or German, but that doesn't tend to extend to the whole continent as much. People tend to think of themselves as country first continent second.

02-27-17, 08:26 AM	#85
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	http://csbaonline.org/research/publi...whole-and-free __________________ Grumpy as always.

02-28-17, 05:08 AM	#86
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,494 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Not Germany, but Netherlands, but still somewhat crucial for German foreign policy: the Dutch parliament has ordered a study to exmaine whether the Euro currency really still is in the Netherölands' best interest, and if and how the country could leave the currency union. This decision comes two months before they have general elections in the country, and the results of that study will be presented later this year. The Dutch start to feel the sting from Draghis plundering course and illegal state financing policy, pension fonds are beign cut and future pensioners will need to expct to get less money due to the ECB policy. If the Dutch, often seen as the prime example of EU- and Euro-friendliness, decide to leave the Euro, it would send shockwaves through and a lethal signal to the Euro-zone, and Germany, would be even ore isolated in the Eurozone than ever before. The scale of such an exit compares to the Brexit. If not just Greece or Italy leaves, but the Netherlands, a net payer, then I think it is game over for the Euro. The Dutch have higher economy growth the Germany, and export twice as much goods per head than the Germans. So after Greece, Italy, France, Spain, we now have a new potential ground zero for a megaexplosion of the EU/Euro . English: http://www.reuters.com/article/nethe...-idUSL8N1G95BX German: https://www.welt.de/finanzen/article...it-Europa.html I read in financial news that investors' expectations that at least one country will leave the Euro within the next 12 months, has gone steeply upwards in recent weeks. Currently over 25% consider that to be the most likely going of events, tendency: steeply climbing further. The Eurocrisis, as they call it, of course nevr had gine away, nor was it under control. It was just violently hidden under the carpet - by moving more and heavier furniture onto that carpet. Now the floor threatens to break through. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.