[REL] Feared Hunters 2.0 - Page 3

ddrgn · 04-28-10, 07:42 AM

Considering the patch will not be out for sometime, I can sit for a few hours with the campaign and change the units to ELITE and release it.

Probably do it later tonight.

04-28-10, 08:14 AM

Brilliant Ddrgn!

I'll look forward to it. Hopefully I'll pull my finger out of my bum sometime soon and start contributing something to the mods community. Work being manic as it is haven't even had change to download the goblin editor as of yet!

Sev.

ddrgn · 04-28-10, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by severniae

Brilliant Ddrgn!

I'll look forward to it. Hopefully I'll pull my finger out of my bum sometime soon and start contributing something to the mods community. Work being manic as it is haven't even had change to download the goblin editor as of yet!

Sev.

Was much easier than I first thought:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...52#post1376352

Enjoy!

04-30-10, 03:03 PM

ddrgn...question about DD behavior with this mod.

I recently installed and attacked an escorted convoy. As I torpedoed and sunk 3 ships in the convoy, over the course of 10 minutes or so, the DD escorts continued to churn on in oblivion as if nothing was happening.

Then, a fourth wounded ship was dead in the water and the convoy sailed on without it. I set up 2000 meters from the strucken ship, and waited for the convoy to pass on to about 12km away. I was out of visual range of the convoy and escorts. I then surfaced and finished off the wounded ship with my deck gun. IMMEDIATELY the DD escorts, from 12k away, turned around and came full speed towards my position, just as they should. They then accurately guessed my location and set up a nice search pattern for about 20 mins. It was MUCH better than stock AI.

But what gives for their behavior while the ships in the convoy were being torpedoed? It seems the DD's "Feared Hunters" modified behavior only occured when I surfaced to use the deck gun?

Any experience with unresponsive DD's when attacking from submerged?

ddrgn · 04-30-10, 11:39 PM

Can you tell me what speed you were going, were you dead quiet when firing your torps? If they have no contact they wont race towards you. The problem, and Nisgeis can correct me if I am wrong, but the scripts only kick in upon a contact. So no contact no reaction. What needs to be done is a search pattern to begin (warships) after the torp is detected. Problem I see though is the AI script for "torpedo detected" does not distinguish between warship and merchant, which is a real problem. I got to work harder with the scripting to see what can be done.

The stock AI script when detecting torpedo is to race ahead full and than back to business as per usual. I am waiting for the next patch to get into the AI more. But I really want to get into it more now ;]

My style of convoy attack is to fire a spread into the mass of ships then go fast and hard loading the torps and go after the hit ships or sink a bigger target. I usually don't dive until I fired all torps 4 forward/1 aft and reload them once, than I go quiet as I can and as deep as I can to reload. They usually pick me up quick and when I play there 3 or 4 of my buds playing, so they make a ****load of noise too. Sounds like you were quiet as a mouse and they did not hear you.

What I will do tho is try and recreate your situation fire some shots and look for reactions.

Although, the mod does not touch the AI, its the same as stock except for when they race towards you on contact at full speed.

Grrr now you got me wanna to test the scripts more ;]

Nisgeis · 05-01-10, 03:22 AM

Sighting a torpedo will trigger a contact being detected. If they see a torpedo, but don't see or hear a submarine, they will list it as an unknown contact, even though if there are no ships or planes around and a torpedo appears, it pretty much has to be a submarine. In stock, they will only react if the contact is classified as a submarine. This is why when the ship was torpedoed, they ignored it and sailed on, but when the sub surfaced and the damaged ship identified it as a sub, the DDs came back.

So, they have to either see or hear(passive or active) a submarine in order for stock to attack it.

05-01-10, 04:45 AM

ddrgn and nisgeis, very interesting feedback.

Yes, indeed I was quiet as a mouse when firing my torpedoes in that encounter. I was either at dead stop or ahead slow the entire time.

It just seems to me that, in the interest of attempted historical accuracy/AI challenge, DD's should observe which direction the torpedoes are impacting from and at least race full speed to a likely location on that side of the convoy. Regardless of whether a submarine contact is actively detected. The torpedo impact should be evidence enough.

Not sure if this is a behavior that can be added.

Monte · 05-01-10, 03:32 PM

Hi ddrgn!
I am playing (and testing) a lot with your DD-test-mission (your post no.5) while waiting for patch 1.2.5

. I use it for both, yours and Nisgeis´, DD mods; of course not at the same time.

So, here´s what I´ve seen:
After escaping the trouble

I surfaced when out of their view range. I turned and went back surfaced to them (after they ended the search). Using my deckgun and torpedos, there was no reaction of the DDs.

I am just curious and would like to know, if this is a general problem or perhaps a collision with another mod?

PS: I found out, that a collision with a DD won´t damage my boat; but that´s another story

ddrgn · 05-01-10, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte

Hi ddrgn!
I am playing (and testing) a lot with your DD-test-mission (your post no.5) while waiting for patch 1.2.5

. I use it for both, yours and Nisgeis´, DD mods; of course not at the same time.

So, here´s what I´ve seen:
After escaping the trouble

I surfaced when out of their view range. I turned and went back surfaced to them (after they ended the search). Using my deckgun and torpedos, there was no reaction of the DDs.

I am just curious and would like to know, if this is a general problem or perhaps a collision with another mod?

PS: I found out, that a collision with a DD won´t damage my boat; but that´s another story

Your seeing this problem only with my mod installed or both mine and Hunter Killer? I believe that is a problem with stock to begin with. How far out were your deck gun shots?

Some collisions are worse than others. I was once rammed in SH5 instantly died. Was a head on collision and I had no prior damage.

Monte · 05-01-10, 03:56 PM

I am seeing this problem with both mods. My deckgun is ready to fire (fire at will) and starts when the nearest target is in range (long range config).

ddrgn · 05-01-10, 05:15 PM

Understood thanks for the feedback. I will get into testing again this week. I will also get involved more heavily with the AI scripting.

Seems we are past the problem with DD's not attacking and damage being less then minimum, time for some fine tuning

Mraah · 05-02-10, 02:11 AM

ddrgn,

Here's an off-the-wall idea that might help an escort react to a hidden sub torpedoing a ship ...

Sober wrote a script that allows ships to detect wakes ... I just asked him if it's possible for a script to be written that detects a torpedo's "splash" when it hits a ship .... The idea is that the "splash" can be flagged as a temporary contact (surface contact?) and the escorts will react.

Also, if this can be done, you can then write a new routine that has a larger search (or spiral pattern) out to 4000 meters from the splash. I know that there was a manuever performed by the escorts called "Observant" but I don't have the details handy to explain.

Any thoughts? Keep up the good work!

Rob

Mraah · 05-02-10, 02:19 AM

ddrgn,

Here's a link that explains Convoy Escort tactics ... including Observant ... Sorry if this was posted earlier as common knowledge ... hope this helps ...

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/...-Convoy-1.html

EDIT ... Link also contains other search patterns, DC patterns etc. Good stuff.

Rob

ddrgn · 05-02-10, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mraah

ddrgn,

Here's a link that explains Convoy Escort tactics ... including Observant ... Sorry if this was posted earlier as common knowledge ... hope this helps ...

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/...-Convoy-1.html

EDIT ... Link also contains other search patterns, DC patterns etc. Good stuff.

Rob

Wow thanks for the resource! Excellent info in there.

I will look into Sobers work, I read the post the other day, problem was if I remember correctly, that they would detect their own wakes and just go backwards. Will check and see if any progress has be made.

I have been able to change the behavior some so that when the torpedo is detected they go full ahead and start a spiral search. So no contact but they just start looking for you. It still needs some tuning and running into some odd issues. I will be working more with it during the week.

doomlordis · 05-03-10, 09:45 AM

Just some feedback, i installed this after using uboat killer 1.02 and i have now uninstalled it and gone back.

The reason is simple, you have dumbed down the detection too much (for my liking), i attacked 6 large convoys with large escort force and i was intercepted only once , granted they did hit me hard but i was running at full speed 20 meters in front of destroyers and they heard nothing several times.
They also seemed to ignore attacks more than before.

Thanks for the effort though.

04-28-10, 07:42 AM	#31
ddrgn Korvettenkapitän Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 918 Downloads: 362 Uploads: 30	Considering the patch will not be out for sometime, I can sit for a few hours with the campaign and change the units to ELITE and release it. Probably do it later tonight. __________________ ddrgn mods: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=217261

04-30-10, 11:39 PM	#35
ddrgn Korvettenkapitän Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 918 Downloads: 362 Uploads: 30	Can you tell me what speed you were going, were you dead quiet when firing your torps? If they have no contact they wont race towards you. The problem, and Nisgeis can correct me if I am wrong, but the scripts only kick in upon a contact. So no contact no reaction. What needs to be done is a search pattern to begin (warships) after the torp is detected. Problem I see though is the AI script for "torpedo detected" does not distinguish between warship and merchant, which is a real problem. I got to work harder with the scripting to see what can be done. The stock AI script when detecting torpedo is to race ahead full and than back to business as per usual. I am waiting for the next patch to get into the AI more. But I really want to get into it more now ;] My style of convoy attack is to fire a spread into the mass of ships then go fast and hard loading the torps and go after the hit ships or sink a bigger target. I usually don't dive until I fired all torps 4 forward/1 aft and reload them once, than I go quiet as I can and as deep as I can to reload. They usually pick me up quick and when I play there 3 or 4 of my buds playing, so they make a ****load of noise too. Sounds like you were quiet as a mouse and they did not hear you. What I will do tho is try and recreate your situation fire some shots and look for reactions. Although, the mod does not touch the AI, its the same as stock except for when they race towards you on contact at full speed. Grrr now you got me wanna to test the scripts more ;] __________________ ddrgn mods: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=217261

05-01-10, 03:22 AM	#36
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Sighting a torpedo will trigger a contact being detected. If they see a torpedo, but don't see or hear a submarine, they will list it as an unknown contact, even though if there are no ships or planes around and a torpedo appears, it pretty much has to be a submarine. In stock, they will only react if the contact is classified as a submarine. This is why when the ship was torpedoed, they ignored it and sailed on, but when the sub surfaced and the damaged ship identified it as a sub, the DDs came back. So, they have to either see or hear(passive or active) a submarine in order for stock to attack it. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

05-01-10, 05:15 PM	#41
ddrgn Korvettenkapitän Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 918 Downloads: 362 Uploads: 30	Understood thanks for the feedback. I will get into testing again this week. I will also get involved more heavily with the AI scripting. Seems we are past the problem with DD's not attacking and damage being less then minimum, time for some fine tuning __________________ ddrgn mods: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=217261

05-03-10, 09:45 AM	#45
doomlordis Wild Night in Bangkok Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 179 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Just some feedback, i installed this after using uboat killer 1.02 and i have now uninstalled it and gone back. The reason is simple, you have dumbed down the detection too much (for my liking), i attacked 6 large convoys with large escort force and i was intercepted only once , granted they did hit me hard but i was running at full speed 20 meters in front of destroyers and they heard nothing several times. They also seemed to ignore attacks more than before. Thanks for the effort though. __________________ subs and birds!

04-28-10, 08:14 AM	#32
severniae Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Brilliant Ddrgn! I'll look forward to it. Hopefully I'll pull my finger out of my bum sometime soon and start contributing something to the mods community. Work being manic as it is haven't even had change to download the goblin editor as of yet! Sev.

04-30-10, 03:03 PM	#34
trotter Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	ddrgn...question about DD behavior with this mod. I recently installed and attacked an escorted convoy. As I torpedoed and sunk 3 ships in the convoy, over the course of 10 minutes or so, the DD escorts continued to churn on in oblivion as if nothing was happening. Then, a fourth wounded ship was dead in the water and the convoy sailed on without it. I set up 2000 meters from the strucken ship, and waited for the convoy to pass on to about 12km away. I was out of visual range of the convoy and escorts. I then surfaced and finished off the wounded ship with my deck gun. IMMEDIATELY the DD escorts, from 12k away, turned around and came full speed towards my position, just as they should. They then accurately guessed my location and set up a nice search pattern for about 20 mins. It was MUCH better than stock AI. But what gives for their behavior while the ships in the convoy were being torpedoed? It seems the DD's "Feared Hunters" modified behavior only occured when I surfaced to use the deck gun? Any experience with unresponsive DD's when attacking from submerged?

05-01-10, 04:45 AM	#37
trotter Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	ddrgn and nisgeis, very interesting feedback. Yes, indeed I was quiet as a mouse when firing my torpedoes in that encounter. I was either at dead stop or ahead slow the entire time. It just seems to me that, in the interest of attempted historical accuracy/AI challenge, DD's should observe which direction the torpedoes are impacting from and at least race full speed to a likely location on that side of the convoy. Regardless of whether a submarine contact is actively detected. The torpedo impact should be evidence enough. Not sure if this is a behavior that can be added.

05-01-10, 03:32 PM	#38
Monte Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 17 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Hi ddrgn! I am playing (and testing) a lot with your DD-test-mission (your post no.5) while waiting for patch 1.2.5 . I use it for both, yours and Nisgeis´, DD mods; of course not at the same time. So, here´s what I´ve seen: After escaping the trouble I surfaced when out of their view range. I turned and went back surfaced to them (after they ended the search). Using my deckgun and torpedos, there was no reaction of the DDs. I am just curious and would like to know, if this is a general problem or perhaps a collision with another mod? PS: I found out, that a collision with a DD won´t damage my boat; but that´s another story

05-01-10, 03:56 PM	#40
Monte Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 17 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	I am seeing this problem with both mods. My deckgun is ready to fire (fire at will) and starts when the nearest target is in range (long range config).

05-02-10, 02:11 AM	#42
Mraah Engineer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Conning Tower - repairing the radar. Posts: 200 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	ddrgn, Here's an off-the-wall idea that might help an escort react to a hidden sub torpedoing a ship ... Sober wrote a script that allows ships to detect wakes ... I just asked him if it's possible for a script to be written that detects a torpedo's "splash" when it hits a ship .... The idea is that the "splash" can be flagged as a temporary contact (surface contact?) and the escorts will react. Also, if this can be done, you can then write a new routine that has a larger search (or spiral pattern) out to 4000 meters from the splash. I know that there was a manuever performed by the escorts called "Observant" but I don't have the details handy to explain. Any thoughts? Keep up the good work! Rob

05-02-10, 02:19 AM	#43
Mraah Engineer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Conning Tower - repairing the radar. Posts: 200 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	ddrgn, Here's a link that explains Convoy Escort tactics ... including Observant ... Sorry if this was posted earlier as common knowledge ... hope this helps ... http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/...-Convoy-1.html EDIT ... Link also contains other search patterns, DC patterns etc. Good stuff. Rob