Getting harder, no recognition manual

[Aquelarrefox]

I play real navigation since 5 years, and doing it is another game.
Some days ago I was watching a video from tonci87 on sh5 playing with no recognition manual for historic reasons.
This is ringtone
Sometimes it is mentioned about recognition manual that historic reco manual didn't have the info that altered in game and this is true.
There was good info about warship, including armament not only silhouette. But not much info about merchant and takers. I was researching how the manuals were for Germany, uk and us.
A good compromise for playing field be the raf recognition manual with the silhouettes, length and length to estimate the height of the mast. Here we have the families of ships like us tanker, brit tanker, german tanker and modern tanker with btr and length. You estimate the height. Some special ships like miners could have compete data.

Normally I use a version of charts add-on edited by me,I could make the families for my roster (gwx onealex and mfm)

Are there players playing this way?
You are forced to 3/4 bearing and stalker ships to get course and speed.

[derstosstrupp]

I also never use the rec manual. The more KTBs I read, the more I realize they used methods that were not the rec manual. The most prevalent method in there is matching course and speed (Ausdampfen). It can either be done from the side, or many times it was done from directly in front/behind.

My favorite method is similar to what I’ve gleaned from those logbooks, and that is to overhaul the target until you are on its course line, 0 AOB. You then have its course, at which time you can turn to match it and then adjust your own speed until the range stays constant, or run off his course a certain distance and then match the course, and then adjust your own speed until the bearing no longer changes, now you’ve matched course and speed. Another way is to take bearings while you overhaul the target and then once you get to its course line, plot the course line and then measure the distance between those bearings along the course line, and then solve for speed that way.

In short, the rec manual I believe is somewhat of a crutch, and it also provides perfect information, such that if you do everything right, you would never miss. I like the additional challenge of doing the above.

[Fifi]

I used to play SH5/4 and now 3 all visual only (no map drawings/plotting) and no map contacts, but never tried without ID book...
I guess i can do it as many times i don’t have time for complete identification

[U301]

Can one remove the Rec manual, I never use it.
Looking at Topp in this video it looks like he is only using it by way of Identification.
Link:

KUrtz

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by U301

Can one remove the Rec manual, I never use it.
Looking at Topp in this video it looks like he is only using it by way of Identification.
Link:

KUrtz

Great vid!
Only i would have switched the music for some Rammstein « Deutschland » for instance

[John Pancoast]

One thing to keep in mind is that "harder" does not necessarily mean "more realistic". More often than not, it does the opposite.

[Aquelarrefox]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

One thing to keep in mind is that "harder" does not necessarily mean "more realistic". More often than not, it does the opposite.

That's true, but I think there's nothing like the game recognition manual for merchant in that time for German captains. In this case is both. I believe only the liners have know dimension.

Yes fifii me too, having mfm get identification some times it's not possible. Sometimes is needed to estimate the large by the disposition.

I will try make based in caws make like raf manual, only length for family ships except for fat passager (I need to add some silhouettes, some families I have in roster weren't in caws)

[Fifi]

In fact, ship ID book is only useful to me to get ship length for getting estimate speed with U-Jagd. When i don’t have time to identify the one i want in a convoy, i take one easily identified and get its speed for all the others.
If ship is alone and can’t identify him, i guess its length (up to 100m/150m/200m) for U-Jagd, and compare the different speed given by U-Jagd to match reality.
Don’t need really the distance to target as i always try to be close around 1000m.
AOB is the easiest to estimate when i know the ship course (via the AOB dial)

[Aquelarrefox]

Originally Posted by Fifi

In fact, ship ID book is only useful to me to get ship length for getting estimate speed with U-Jagd. When i don’t have time to identify the one i want in a convoy, i take one easily identified and get its speed for all the others.
If ship is alone and can’t identify him, i guess its length (up to 100m/150m/200m) for U-Jagd, and compare the different speed given by U-Jagd to match reality.
Don’t need really the distance to target as i always try to be close around 1000m.
AOB is the easiest to estimate when i know the ship course (via the AOB dial)

Yes, about height I forget to mention that game doesn't model ships position related to cargoload or free/ballast. In real world your could have several meters of distance in several cargo ships. Passenger didn't should be affected by this, like warships variation should be less.
I'm doing striving similar as you mentioned, I try to make 3 bearing with the disc, it's fast way to get course, even better than pair course speed.
I will try to make the pages for caws for my roster, if you want I could send you fifi .

[Aquelarrefox]

I only find a recognition manual like the used in game for us navy for japanese merchant Navy, witch was shorter than the mfm u boats should sunk.

They could use the stadimeter as in vanilla.I'm some points sh4 is much accurate.

[Pisces]

Ships had different levels of loading so the height of the mast cannot be fully relied on anyway because it might sit deeper or higher in the water on different voyages. Sure, it's not modeled in the game. But with all kind of undocumented mods you can't be sure either without controlled testing.

The only way you can accurately use the stadimeter/range finder is by comparing it to an earlier occasion before. To check if you get closer or further. If you got to close then shells start flying or escorts become anxious. You'll know soon enough. Until then, maintain the save distance you have at that point. You don't need the exact mastheight or whatever structure for it, just observe the size. If it becomes larger is has closed on you. If it is smaller it is further way. Depending on what side you are of it, it indicates if your speed or course is matching. If you are on the side of it, steady bearing indicates matched speed, constant distance indicates matched course. Don't turn when you are matching speed alongside it, or you will screw up the bearing which it needs to catch up to. If you are in front of it, steady bearing indicates proper course, same distance indicates same speed. Gently slide in front of it with minor course differences until AOB shows 0 (symmetric target appearance), then turn to get it on 180. With small course changes your speed will remain steady and not alter the range as quick. Once on the target track (what Stosstrup mentioned) you have position in the future locked down. All it needs is a bearing from aside to fix it to a spot.

The only data that is truely reliable is that of your own boat. So taking the time to match course and speed, by letting the target drift in bearing and diminish/grow in size by the periscope scale, is the most reliable and accurate. Use your own average movement between two points in time: after it was at a certain true bearing and certain distance, make it return to it by your own movement. If you can't set the speed as precise on the dial, then just be approximate and in the end slow down/speed up to let it catch up again. Whenever it does, mark your own plot. Wolfpack has the odometer to measure own movement down to the meter. I believe SH3 has one too, but not with as much resolution (precision). 'Your mileage may vary' (pun intended ) But you can do this based on dead reckoning also if you do real nav. It is the most simple way of target tracking. Anyone with a mk1 eyeball can do it. No math wizardry required other than simple distance over time division and steer in the right direction. And be patient.

p.s. Accuracy means how much a measurement differs from the actual. If the recognition manual value is not correct, accuracy is off. No mater with how many decimals you can get a range from the stadimeter or line measurement tool. Measure range in centimeters/inches versus hunderd meters/yards, that is resolution or precision.