Signature Help

HowieWowie · 06-12-17, 07:12 PM

I'm new to Subsim's and I'm trying to get some understanding of the data displayed in the Signature tab. I've read the manual but it's not much help.

For your Ownship values for MF Active, LF MF Passive and VLF LF Towed are given. What's the meaning of a negative number? Positive number?

For the Contact we values for MF Active and LF MF Passive.

I'd like to read up or learn how to use these values in practice. Any suggestions please and thanks!

Jace11 · 06-12-17, 07:27 PM

As I understand it ownship values state the returns you are getting (or would get for your active sonar if you choose to use it) from the designated contact you have selected to each of your sonar arrays. A negative number means that sonar returns are being drowned out by background noise - for instance if you are at high speed, the numbers will decrease. You want high positive numbers across the board. Masking your towed array from the target will also be visible as its value will decrease if you point your bow at the contact.

The values listed by the contact represent his ability to detect you, i.e you know what ship it is, so you know what kind of sonars it has if you have classified your contact correctly. You then want to keep these numbers negative meaning he cant hear you. If you get behind them or they are moving as high speed you'll see there numbers drop drastically to -50, -50 meaning he is as deaf as a post! More typically you'll see -10 or less when you first see a contact but I think they still have a chance to hear you if you do something like cavitate, fire a weapon etc. Generally if the numbers start to go positive as you close, you are in danger of being detected.

HowieWowie · 06-12-17, 07:41 PM

Jace11 thank you for the explanation, very helpful!!

FPSchazly · 06-12-17, 08:51 PM

I've heard from the developers that once one of the enemy's sensors reaches 10 dB (the units of the numbers), the enemy can start tracking you. From that point, they can also track you down all the way to 0 dB. Also, these detection numbers are a relative scale with 0 dB relative being equivalent to ambient noise absolute, such as 89 dB for example. This will reflect in shorter detection distances in bad conditions and longer detection distances in good conditions.

Waervyn · 06-13-17, 06:18 AM

Related to this, does anyone know how much noise a torpedo makes (both when firing and travelling)? I assume this is different per torpedo, but I wonder if there's a ballpark estimate.

Reason I ask is that I never really know whether an enemy will be alerted of me when I fire a torpedo or not.

Thanks!

PL_Harpoon · 06-13-17, 06:55 AM

Looking at the weapons.txt most of them sit around 120 when cruising and 240 when active.

Onkel Neal · 06-13-17, 09:03 AM

Heres the best info I know of
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...87&postcount=2

Jace11 · 06-13-17, 03:55 PM

One thing I don't understand about this system is that you can get their sensor effectiveness values before you get a course and speed, e.g How can I know a Victor has -50/-50 on his sensors with only a low %SOL when I don't know his course and speed. Effectively the game is telling me I'm in his baffles yet the plot doesn't know his heading, speed or position accurately. Is this realistic or are these values circumventing FOW.

Julhelm · 06-13-17, 04:34 PM

Anything before 85% solution are just estimates. Your sonarmen will initially estimate a range for plotting, and the values reflect that.

Pisces · 06-13-17, 04:47 PM

This came in on Youtube just an hour ago:

p.s. He made some more tutorial videos recently. And goes into quite alot of detail as to why he does things. Clearly he has real life experience. So I'd say a subscription boost in in order.

Jace11 · 06-13-17, 05:05 PM

Im subbed to Jive, been watching most of them, very cool and useful, particularly his TMA and how he plans his detection legs.

max-peck · 06-13-17, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace11

Im subbed to Jive, been watching most of them, very cool and useful, particularly his TMA and how he plans his detection legs.

Same
Jive is a BadAss and I am really enjoying his vids
He has taught me a real lot just in the last week about this game

06-12-17, 07:12 PM	#1
HowieWowie Watch Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 24 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Signature Help I'm new to Subsim's and I'm trying to get some understanding of the data displayed in the Signature tab. I've read the manual but it's not much help. For your Ownship values for MF Active, LF MF Passive and VLF LF Towed are given. What's the meaning of a negative number? Positive number? For the Contact we values for MF Active and LF MF Passive. I'd like to read up or learn how to use these values in practice. Any suggestions please and thanks!

06-12-17, 08:51 PM	#4
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 771 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	I've heard from the developers that once one of the enemy's sensors reaches 10 dB (the units of the numbers), the enemy can start tracking you. From that point, they can also track you down all the way to 0 dB. Also, these detection numbers are a relative scale with 0 dB relative being equivalent to ambient noise absolute, such as 89 dB for example. This will reflect in shorter detection distances in bad conditions and longer detection distances in good conditions. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

06-13-17, 09:03 AM	#7
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,284 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Heres the best info I know of http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...87&postcount=2 __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

06-12-17, 07:27 PM	#2
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	As I understand it ownship values state the returns you are getting (or would get for your active sonar if you choose to use it) from the designated contact you have selected to each of your sonar arrays. A negative number means that sonar returns are being drowned out by background noise - for instance if you are at high speed, the numbers will decrease. You want high positive numbers across the board. Masking your towed array from the target will also be visible as its value will decrease if you point your bow at the contact. The values listed by the contact represent his ability to detect you, i.e you know what ship it is, so you know what kind of sonars it has if you have classified your contact correctly. You then want to keep these numbers negative meaning he cant hear you. If you get behind them or they are moving as high speed you'll see there numbers drop drastically to -50, -50 meaning he is as deaf as a post! More typically you'll see -10 or less when you first see a contact but I think they still have a chance to hear you if you do something like cavitate, fire a weapon etc. Generally if the numbers start to go positive as you close, you are in danger of being detected.

06-12-17, 07:41 PM	#3
HowieWowie Watch Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 24 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Jace11 thank you for the explanation, very helpful!!

06-13-17, 06:18 AM	#5
Waervyn Seaman Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 32 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Related to this, does anyone know how much noise a torpedo makes (both when firing and travelling)? I assume this is different per torpedo, but I wonder if there's a ballpark estimate. Reason I ask is that I never really know whether an enemy will be alerted of me when I fire a torpedo or not. Thanks!

06-13-17, 06:55 AM	#6
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	Looking at the weapons.txt most of them sit around 120 when cruising and 240 when active.

06-13-17, 03:55 PM	#8
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	One thing I don't understand about this system is that you can get their sensor effectiveness values before you get a course and speed, e.g How can I know a Victor has -50/-50 on his sensors with only a low %SOL when I don't know his course and speed. Effectively the game is telling me I'm in his baffles yet the plot doesn't know his heading, speed or position accurately. Is this realistic or are these values circumventing FOW.

06-13-17, 04:34 PM	#9
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Anything before 85% solution are just estimates. Your sonarmen will initially estimate a range for plotting, and the values reflect that.

06-13-17, 04:47 PM	#10
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	This came in on Youtube just an hour ago: p.s. He made some more tutorial videos recently. And goes into quite alot of detail as to why he does things. Clearly he has real life experience. So I'd say a subscription boost in in order.

06-13-17, 05:05 PM	#11
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	Im subbed to Jive, been watching most of them, very cool and useful, particularly his TMA and how he plans his detection legs.