Afghanistan deadline

[Catfish]

"Analysis: Biden lost faith in the U.S. mission in Afghanistan over a decade ago"

Seems he had reasons..
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...go-2021-07-09/

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

The Russians, having marched across the bridge in retreat; The U.S., doing a bugout like the departure from 'Nam; the Chinese are now preparing to move in with their
globally domineering thinly disguised Road & Belt Initiative to support the new (whichever)regime in Afghanistan... considering that Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan really couldn't handle this region either, Comrade Xi is welcome to try....

Originally Posted by Catfish

"Analysis: Biden lost faith in the U.S. mission in Afghanistan over a decade ago"

Seems he had reasons..
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...go-2021-07-09/

Maybe Biden reads my posts: https://www.historynet.com/indomitable-afghanistan.htm

Despite Soviet advances in weaponry and some success in counterinsurgency tactics, Afghanistan had become a military and political quagmire, and by the end of 1987 the Soviets, then led by Mikhail Gorbachev, had had enough. Following their withdrawal from Afghanistan on Feb. 15, 1989, the country devolved into civil war, as heavily armed fighters from all sides and ethnic groups vied for power in Kabul, again demonstrating their tradition of resisting rule from their own capital as much as from foreign invaders.

Afghanistan remains a unique case in history, for its tribal-based society, its myriad ethnic groups who share a sense of nationalism when challenged by an outside power, and for its prohibitive terrain. Its people have learned over the centuries to resist every kind of invasion —indeed, resistance appears to be in the nation’s lifeblood. Mountstuart Elphinstone succinctly summed up Afghanistan’s character some 200 years ago:
There is reason to fear that the societies into which the nation is divided possess within themselves a principle of repulsion and disunion too strong to be overcome, except by such a force as, while it united the whole into one solid body, would crush and obliterate the features of every one of the parts.

I welcome China's Road and Belt Initiative in Afghanistan. It will prove too costly to their frail bullying form of glitz and economic domination of poor nations currently ongoing since the 1959 takeover of Tibet.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Me

Comrade Xi is welcome to try....

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-...ica-withdrawal

As American troops complete their withdrawal from Afghanistan, Beijing appears to have been waiting in the wings for an opportunity to enter the war-torn country.
For President Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party, Afghanistan is a crucial piece of the puzzle. It offers a portal through which the Chinese military might access the Arabian Sea, via Iran or Pakistan.
Afghanistan could also provide access to Iran and the Middle East, and a route to the Indian Ocean and on to Africa.
As China prepares to make significant investments that would secure its influence in Afghanistan, author and China expert Gordon Chang has doubts about the regime's ability to succeed. "Because the Chinese are more vicious, yes, I think they’ll have a better chance of achieving their goals in Afghanistan than us," Chang said in an interview with Fox News. "But having a better chance doesn’t mean they’ll succeed. I think they will just take longer to fail."

TALIBAN SURGES AS BIDEN PULLS US TROOPS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, WITH EXPERTS WARNING OF ‘FOREIGN POLICY DISASTER’

"We’ve seen China establish relationships in unruly areas, but this would be a much bigger commitment for them," he continued, pointing out that Afghanistan is one of 14 countries bordering mainland China. "This is not some far away commitment where they can just pull up stakes, once China goes in it is going to be extremely hard for them to get out."
As mentioned, one of China’s key interests in Afghanistan is access.
Chinese leaders have reportedly already been negotiating a deal with Kabul authorities to invest in Afghanistan’s infrastructure through China’s international "Belt and Road Initiative."
The trillion-dollar program has funded multiple projects, generally focusing on hard infrastructure like airports, roads and seaports, throughout Asia, Africa and the Middle East.
It has been used by the Chinese Communist Party to grow its influence by providing infrastructure loans to poorer countries in return for control over local resources, of which Afghanistan has plenty.
Tapping into Afghan’s vast natural resources has been a long-standing goal of China. The country sits on an estimated $1 trillion to $3 trillion in mineral wealth, including rare semi-precious gems, copper, iron, gold, uranium and lithium, which is essential in batteries for alternative energy sources.
The deal with the Afghan government would reportedly extend the $62 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, a project started in 2013.
Chang, however, speculated that extending the BRI may end up benefiting the Afghans, not the Chinese. "I don’t think Belt and Road really is that important in terms of the way Afghans think," he said. "It just gives them more leverage over the Chinese, because once you start building infrastructure you’ve got to protect it."
When it comes to accessing Afghanistan’s vast untapped natural resources, he claimed it may be more costly than China anticipated. "It's going to be pretty expensive for them to get minerals out of Afghanistan."
"I'm not saying they can't do it; I think they probably will do it. But the cost is going to be much higher than they presently contemplate." "Afghanistan is an unruly country," Chang pointed out. "Even with [China’s] 30-year lease on their copper mine were not able to take advantage of it."
Finally, by gaining a foothold in the region, China seeks to deny Uyghur and other Turkish minorities sanctuary and avoid an anarchic scenario in which a rise in Islamic fundamentalism on its border threatens domestic security in China. "Beijing is committing genocide and crimes against humanity against them, and they’re worried that Afghanis are going to aid the Uyghurs," said Chang.
With its bought influence, Beijing will expect the Taliban to ignore the "genocidal" oppression of their fellow Muslims, the 12 million Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang province, which sits close to the Afghan and Pakistani borders.
Chang expressed his doubts, saying, "Although [the Chinese] are vicious, I don't think that they're as vicious as the elements that they're going to face."
"They've got a great relationship with the Taliban, but the Taliban are not the only element in Afghan society. There are a lot of militants with very different interests," he observed. "India can play these groups against China in Afghanistan, bedevil the Chinese, bog them down."
Ultimately, Chang said he believes the decision for the U.S. to withdraw from Afghanistan was the correct one.
"Right now, the most important threat to the United States are not the militants in Afghanistan, but China. We were bogged down in Afghanistan with this whole notion of nation building." He went on to suggest the U.S. focus on redeploying its forces to aid friends and allies in the regions surrounding China.
"Beijing has a lot of money, they can do a lot of things, but they can't do everything and right now they are overstretched. And it looks like they're going to add one more commitment to something that, yeah, maybe they can succeed, but is going to come at an enormous cost."
"I would love to see China get mired into Afghanistan," Chang admitted. "This is going to be fun to watch."

[Otto Harkaman]

Why did the Taliban delegation come to Moscow for talks?
https://english.pravda.ru/russia/20445-taliban_russia/

a delegation of the Taliban* movement paid a visit to Moscow to assure the Kremlin that the Taliban* does not threaten either Russia or its allies in Central Asia.

[mapuc]

^ And I am the real Santa

Markus

[Rockstar]

So we opened a can of good old fashioned whoopass and after twenty years of occupation we leave and the Taliban want to join the international community. They realize if they want to be recognized diplomatically they need to play by certain rules so they can reap the benefits the international community has to offer. Good for them, apparently some of what we have done and are still doing may have done some good.

Since Biden has no faith in the mission maybe he should allow someone else to take the helm. We could certainly use a leader right now instead of a quitter trying to cover his arse if things go wrong.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So we opened a can of good old fashioned whoopass and after twenty years of occupation we leave and the Taliban want to join the international community. They realize if they want to be recognized diplomatically they need to play by certain rules so they can reap the benefits the international community has to offer. Good for them, apparently some of what we have done and are still doing may have done some good.

Since Biden has no faith in the mission maybe he should allow someone else to take the helm. We could certainly use a leader right now instead of a quitter trying to cover his arse if things go wrong.

Why did I get the picture where Chamberlain standing on the stairway outside the Plane waving with a piece of paper, when I read your comment the others where it says Taliban want to join the international community.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Why did I get the picture where Chamberlain standing on the stairway outside the Plane waving with a piece of paper, when I read your comment the others where it says Taliban want to join the international community.

Markus

All I know is from articles I’ve read is they do want to be recognized politically and diplomatically. I’ve read the Taliban realize they must meet certain criteria set forth by the international community in order for that too happen. Who knows if they can hold it together long enough. I think the U.S. is ready as we have not officially included them in a list of terrorist threat assessments and we even went so far as to suggest the current Afghan government recognize them.

For twenty years all I’ve ever heard is quagmire, British death march, Soviet withdrawal, and now scenes of Saigon. Haven’t seen it yet.

Right now and much too India’s and possibly NATO’s delight, Pakistan at the moment is more worried about the Taliban than anyone.

[Otto Harkaman]

Older book, but just from a quick glance, makes me think we were just a passing diversion, regarding that all sides were waiting for us to leave so they could get back to the real game.

China’s strategic appreciation of its growing rivalry with India is, of course, starkly different. Beijing’s official policy is that it has no territorial or hegemonistic ambitions in Asia, other than reunification of Taiwan to the mainland. But, in reality, Chinese strategists are keenly aware that the steady growth of their nation’s power will accentuate already existing economic and strategic rivalry with India.

[Skybird]

A grim though important reminder of what you are dealing with there.

Warning, violent images.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/13/a...hnk/index.html

A famous German foreign correspondent legend, now dead, Peter Scholl-Latour, once wrote or said that during the Sovjet invasion, Russian prisoners sometimes were bound "spread eagle" on the ground and got their stomachs slit open, then were left for slowly dying from the sun and wild animals, birds.

Be careful whom you trust with your treaties you want to sign and whose promises and declarations of intentions you want to invest in. Its a wild place.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So we opened a can of good old fashioned whoopass and after twenty years of occupation we leave and the Taliban want to join the international community. They realize if they want to be recognized diplomatically they need to play by certain rules so they can reap the benefits the international community has to offer. Good for them, apparently some of what we have done and are still doing may have done some good.

Since Biden has no faith in the mission maybe he should allow someone else to take the helm. We could certainly use a leader right now instead of a quitter trying to cover his arse if things go wrong.

Withdrawal was committed to by that sad loser Trump, remember?

[Mr Quatro]

Give it back to the Muslims ... that's all it really is

A war between Muslims ... at least South Vietnam wanted to be free of commie influence in their part of the country.

Now America and Russia have something in common we lost the same war

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Withdrawal was committed to by that sad loser Trump, remember?

Historically both Biden and Trump were of the same opinion regarding Afghanistan. One a career government official who could use his power to sway Ukraine to protect his own son. Did nothing for the families whose sons he kept sending to Afghanistan.

The other lived up to his campaign promise and within a few years got us out. Action speak louder than words.

As for the mission it’s no longer direct military involvement rather gray zone diplomacy, we still need leadership, not hand wringing excuses. Kabul could very well fall in the next six months. I’m thinking because of not listing the Taliban amongst current terrorist threats and our past desire that Kabul recognize the Taliban we are preparing ourselves to deal with who ever is left standing after the smoke clears.

There’s only so much we can do for Afghans. If they want to keep what we gave them then they need to step up and fight for their own. Unfortunately Islam is a religion of terror and a power hungry few use that religion as an excuse to kill and maim the innocent to get their way. All in the name of a their loving allah of course

[MaDef]

Kabul could very well fall in the next six months.

That's a generous assessment of Afghan military ability. I think the Taliban will be rolling into Kabul end of October, beginning of November.

[mapuc]

Would China make a different. Here I'am thinking. The government in Kabul is under pressure from Taliban so they speed up the agreement with the Chinese.

This in hope the Chinese would send troops to protect Chinese workers.

Markus