GER politics thread

[Skybird]

There is a revolt of the CDU party base going on, in today's party meetings on federal state levels two thirds of speakers so far lined up behind the CSU's Markus Söder and not their party chairman Armin Laschet. The resistance at the base is immense. It can hardly come as a surprise for the party bosses - except they had lived in a cave so far. Their plan to silently decide it behind locked doors in a backroom and have the party nod it of, is passé.

The bosses have to accept that the party does not want Laschet as candidate, because different to the bosses the base knows that they will get destroyed in the next elections if they pick Laschet. There are polls showing that not even 3% of germans would vote for a chancellor Öaschet.

Whats going on in the bosses' minds? Probably the same sort of reality-denying drivel that occupies them with regard to the corona crisis "management".


Andf Laschet himself? Is nothing more than only an ego-trip on walking legs. After 16 years, Merkelism has to be buried, fianlly, 16 years too late. Laschet shall not become chnacellor, with him it would be like a fifth term for Merkel, with more air wasted for babbling and thus an inferior CO2 balance.

[Skybird]

According to leaked "secret" information, only one of the 16 federal sdtate'S CDU delegates and party bases support Armin Laschet (his home state Northrhine-Westphalia), all the 15 others are set up against him.



If there is any sanity left in this party, they must call it a day and leave the candaidacy to thei sister party, even if it is smaller. Since months all polls show that only Söder has a realsitic chance to defeat the ever groweign Greens.

I am no fan of Söder or the CSU, I am no fan of any politician or party, never. But even I feel tempted to vote for the first time ever in my life - just to prevent Laschet. 16 years of Merkel stagnation is enough. Enough, enough, enough and enough. Enough is enough. Its enough.

Listen, CDU! ENOUGH!!

That would be a joke. Me voting for Baerbock. Thats like Catfish voting for Trump. (I take it for granted that Baerbock makes the race against Habeck in the Greens' internal competition, she has a qualification that nobody can beat: she is female).

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That would be a joke. ... Thats like Catfish voting for Trump. ...

^ I couldn't, wrong nationality
Theres's also Merz ...

Sie müssen erst denSöder durch den Laschet ziehn,
und mit der kleinen Merkel ganz nach oben drehn,
dann erscheint sofort ein Spahn und da drücken sie dann drauf,
und schon nimmt das Ganze seinen Lauf ..

[Catfish]

Germany will (have to) be soo happy and thaankfull.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN2C016H

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ I couldn't, wrong nationality
Theres's also Merz ...

Sie müssen erst denSöder durch den Laschet ziehn,
und mit der kleinen Merkel ganz nach oben drehn,
dann erscheint sofort ein Spahn und da drücken sie dann drauf,
und schon nimmt das Ganze seinen Lauf ..

Oh Gott, jetzt reimt er auch noch...! Meinem armen inneren Eichhörnchen bleibt wirklich nichts erspart...
Im Übrigen ziehe ich es vor, die Leute lieber durch den Kakao zu ziehen, den ich ihnen hinterher dann zu trinken gebe.

[Skybird]

The caucus of the Bundestag parliamentary groups of CDU and CSU have delivered Laschet a sounding defeat, he is being described as being heavily depressed and emotionally injured. A very robust and substantial majority from his own party has told him clearly that they do not want him. 15 of 16 regional associatiosn have positioned themselves against him, with very huge majorities. Over the day, news from the party groups in the states also delivered him just kicks and hits and crunshing slaps. It seems he was so disconnected form reality that he really got surprised how much resistance there is - and this although since many months it is clear that a very huge majority of his party does not want him, he has made too many mistakes, and has babbled too much stupid nonsense, and has turned his coat many times too often. What is noteworthy is the farther away from the level of offices and posts in Berlin the lower ranks speaking out are, the clearer they position themselves against Laschet. There are federal states where he did not got a single supporting vote from his own fraction today!

The Bavarian however has made it clear that he is not intending to retreat without setting up a battle to the CDU. In fact he is homing in for the kill, much to the fuming and raging of CDU bosses, who despertaely want to stick with Merkel'sman. Also, the minsiter presidents were rolle dover severla trimes by an alsmot hyperactoive minister president Söder, that they took this revelation fo their own indifefrence and oassivity as a personal insult. The civil population however gives Söder credit for it. He may have the lead personnel of the CDU Bundestag group against him - but this leaders' level is also quite isolated from their own party base it seems, having formidably miscalculated the mood in large parts of the party that was described by a CDU guy today like this: "We do not want a repainted Merkel." And another man from the abse said: "I want to win elections. If we go wioth the infeiror vcandidate of ours, we would get sunk." Heck, didn'T I use similair words just days ago? I mwoudl say with Laschet they get dug in that deep that afterwards they cannot even find the place anymore where to place the memorial stone.

Mind you, four years ago the building of the coaliton - or better its continuation - was an endless pain and I was and still am of the opinion that there should have been no government building, but new elections, that far apart everythign and everybody were. The great coalition WAS VOTED OUT back then - and this fact was ignored. Since then I saw the current government as non-legitimate, and as nothing more than just a dead corrupt body floating on the water. Many at the CDU base did take it very angrily that Merkel allowed the SPD, the biggest looser of that eleciton, to pose as the triumphing victor, giving them the most important ministries, amongst them finances. This anger still is there, and has alienated many at the base of the party from Merkel, and their party leaders.

IMO it was betrayal of the vote.


Edit:
Der Tagesspiegel writes about Markus Söder (CSU):


The fact that he is currently popular with the people as a crisis manager is not enough to get a big sister's chairman out of the way. The fear has to be added. The fear that Laschet will remain in the polling low and the MPs' fear for their own mandate. -

Fear has a real foundation. The surveys are not a fantasy product, nor is the widespread pro Söder mood among the grassroot followers. This is easier to ignore as the head of the country than as a normal MP. You can show the difference quite well with Bernd Althusmann, the head of the Lower Saxony CDU, and his deputy Fritz Güntzler. Althusmann spoke for Laschet in the presidium. His vice, MP from Göttingen, is for Söder. "You have to go to the field with the team that you win with," says Güntzler. Laschet should continue to play. "But we need Markus Söder as a captain."

Güntzler, just to explain, is the captain of the FC Bundestag football team. But the situation can no longer be dealt with playfully. Especially not for Laschet. -

Söder's maneuver is designed in such a way that it only turns out well for himself in any case; if necessary, he remains the absolute ruler of Bavaria. But how does Laschet want to go into battle with a CSU boss who believes with him the party will face a huge defeat? Laschet is already damaged, says another Christian Democrat. How he wants to get out of there - a mystery. -

But if the Bavarian wins, the entire CDU leadership threatens to fall into insignificance. Söder finally declared her unanimous vote for Laschet to be rather irrelevant in a “modern form of democracy”. Surveys, overflowing CSU emails with encouragement and other barometers of sentiment count more than any committees. -

In any case, Söder has achieved one thing: his admirers in the CDU are marching on.

[Skybird]

The CDU elite: a party of zombies.



(Focus)

[Skybird]

Vera Lengsfeld, a former GDR civil rights activist, writes:

In a number of comments on the Chancellor candidate power struggle in the Union, one can read that the spectacle should distract from the planned attack on the Basic Law by amending the so-called Infection Protection Act. That’s not entirely wrong. But there is much more to it than that. It is about the final elimination of the former CDU successful model in favor of a second left-green party. Of all the possible candidates for Chancellor, only Markus Söder is stupid and / or lacking in character enough to want to bring Chancellor Merkel's mission to a bitter end. -

I have known Angela Merkel since 1990 and know from her own mouth that she has basically always rejected the CDU (“I want nothing to do with the CDU” to Ewald König. “I don't want to look like a CDU chick from the West " to me). For her, the party was the only option to get into big politics after Lothar de Maizière first made her his deputy government spokeswoman and then successfully proposed her to the Kohl cabinet. She became Minister for Women and Youth and inherited de Maizère as Deputy Federal Chairwoman of the CDU. -

But the party, which she never formally joined, but into which she was accepted as a member of the “Democratic Awakening”, only served Merkel as a vehicle of power. I am firmly convinced that there has never been any other bond. That was always Merkel's strength. She could act freely without being hindered by emotional concerns. During her time as party leader, and increasingly as Chancellor, she shifted the CDU further and further to the left. -

During the time of the first grand coalition, the Social Democrats joked that Merkel was the best female social chancellor of all time. Then they stopped laughing because Merkel was involved in social democratic politics, but it did not help the SPD, but rather harmed it. The black and yellow interim government has slowed the left shift of the CDU, but not stopped it. Even the FDP could not or did not want to prevent the sudden exit from atomic energy. -

Officially, this was Merkel's reaction to the tsunami in Japan, but the Greens had previously signaled internally that there could be no coalition with the Union because of the decision to extend the term for the nuclear power plant by the black and yellow government. The party leadership of the Greens would have understood very well that Merkel wanted to collect the money for the implementation of the energy transition from the nuclear power operators with this extension of the term. However, the basis would not support that, said Claudia Roth's office manager during a summer party at Wannsee. In the second grand coalition, even more green issues were focused. The open borders demanded by Claudia Roth were implemented by Chancellor Merkel in 2016. -

There shouldn't actually be a third GroKo. But it wasn't enough for black-green because the Greens entered the Bundestag as the weakest party in 2017 and they were forced to negotiate with the FDP. But it was dumped so arrogantly that the annoyed Christian Lindner got out. -

Instead of being given the chance to recover in the opposition, the SPD had to participate in government again and has since suffered from apparently incurable consumption. Why a 15 percent party is still running a candidate for chancellor has more to do with the power of habit than with a real chance of emerging as the strongest party in the next elections. -

The fourth Merkel government is the very grand coalition, because it has the green ruling party on board while waiting. The Greens are Merkel's most loyal allies, which once again proves their unconditional support for the annulment of the Basic Law by means of an amendment to the Disease Protection Act. Merkel obviously has the goal of laying the ax to federalism at the end of her term of office, which is supposed to prevent Germany from becoming a central power again. -

This short story has to be kept in mind if one is to understand what the question of Chancellor in the Union is really about. -

There are two opposing positions: Armin Laschet has recognized that Germany today is a case of restructuring and that the country, with him the CDU, needs a fundamental renewal. Friedrich Merz is also aware of this, which is why he supports his former adversary Laschet. Both stand for a break with Merkel's policy and a fresh start. Merz is right when he says that Germany is only three percent away from a Chancellor Baerbock, and he wants to prevent that. -

Markus Söder, on the other hand, stands for a continuation of Merkel's policy. If you want Merkel votes, you have to do Merkel politics, he announced. His General Secretary Markus Blume seconded: "We want to continue the success story, the legacy of Angela Merkel." Now the Merkel votes are decreasing. Even if she emerged victorious in the elections, it was not because she had historical successes, but benefited from the weakness of the opponents. -

Merkel's policy has changed Germany profoundly, but not for the better. On the one hand, it produced the AfD and, on the other hand, made the Greens strong. Within just four years, the weakest opposition party in the Bundestag has become a party that not only runs a candidate for chancellor, but can also work out real chances for the chancellery. If Söder should become a candidate for chancellor, he will help the Greens into the Chancellery. -

I have already said it in earlier texts and I am repeating it now: In my opinion, Merkel does not want the Union to win the next federal election because that is the only chance for her that her policy will not be assessed. -

Söder is the guarantee that Germany as a restructuring case will not be discussed in the election campaign. As soon as Söder is nominated, what has already been practiced in “Spiegel” will set in: All of his contradicting statements will be dissected and he will be ripped off by the old media. The old media, which fully rely on Baerbock hype, will look at Söders mask shops and the subsidies for his wife's company. Against Baerbock, the bully from Bavaria will look old. She is as good a media professional as he is. In terms of content, it has nothing to offer. It will show him and the public that green politics are still better made from the original than from plagiarism. -

Armin Laschet is the only chance for the Union to swim free from the left-green corner and to set its own substantive accents. Reinforced with the economic and financial competence of Friedrich Merz, this could avert the impending defeat and the disintegration of the CDU. -

I'm not saying that because I'm a supporter of both, but because I'm afraid for Germany, which deserves better than being dismantled for good.

Since 16 years I call Merkel the most successful "Wendehals'" (turncoat) of the revolutions that swept away the former Warsaw Pact and the Soviet-dominated regimes in Eastern Europe. I called her that many times in the forum. And that she has a deep-rooting disdain for Germany (I say), at least for the CDU (Lengsfeld indicates).There is an evil old joke about her, according to which Merkel just fulfills Erich Honnecker's late revenge against the "BRD". I do not laugh about that anymore, since long, I think it simply is true. I see the effects of her politcal legacy, and must come to that conclusion.

I disagree with Lengsfeld's praise for Laschet. Laschet is a typical and loyal Merkel-risen boy, and that is the reason why the CDU base rebels against its bosses, some delegates said it quite clearly, oroginal quote: "We do not want a repainted Merkel". Last time I red a number it said that about 70% of the CDU delegates are against Laschet, that is even more rjectio, far more rejection, than in the polled open public (where Söder leads over Laschet by 2-3 factors). They already were up in arms after the one-year long coalition building three years ago, where Merkel made the biggets looser, the SPD, the biggets winner and gave them the most influential and powerful ministry seats, including finances. What Lengsfeld says about Söder'S comments on continuing Merkelos policy, may or may not be true as well, I do not know if it is true since I canot remember him havign said that, but I may have simpyl missed it. The point is: of Laschet I knoiw sure as hell that he is right on this pro-Merkel-contiuation course, he said it many times, it is said about him, and his boss-supporters all are Merkel fanboys.

But her general description of Söder may be true or not, i am not certain, to me Söder just combines Machiavellian raffinesse with unscrupulous opportunism. I am a fan of Macchiavelli, because in the first that man was about being unsentimental and objective in trying to identify and describe, without passion, the mechanisms by which to secure power and describe political structures to project it. He did not judge the good and evil in it. He said: if you want to acchieve this (good or bad in itself, he was not interested), you have to do that. He did not allow, as best as he could prevent it, that sentiments corrupted his observations, and thats something that I respect.

I expect the Greens in the next government, this way or the other, they even have very realistic chances to win the election and claim the chancellory. That will mean financial hardships for the ordinary people that these so far simply refuse to realise, being blinded by paroles and ideological indoctrination. It also will accelerate the economic decline of Germany and thus the econimic powerhouse of Europe. I see this whole political shift - supported by every party except the AFD - as a direct and immediate danger even to my very own personal economic survival interests as a private being over the longer distance future. I am in danger to get ruined by them over the long run, like many, many others will be as well. Thats why I am not only hostile to these jackals on the matter, but on the personal level as well. It could not get any more personal, since they threaten the basis of my very economic and financial existence.

The point is neither Söder nor Laschet nor the SPD's Scholz are a valid alternatives. German can only vote on the method of suicide. But suicide it must be, no matter their choice. Blade? Bullet? Poison? Gallow? Choose, its an election year! You are free to choose!

Germany has run out of working options, and gets teared down by the many, many, many burdens and obligations that Merkel has helped to entangle it in. I use to call Merkel something else as well, don't I. The worst political desaster in Europe since 1933 and the 12 years of darkness following it. Maximum damage done.

Congrats to Honnecker. Looks like he is in for the late win.

[mapuc]

Sounds like you are heading strait towards a North Korean style of politics

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Germany will (have to) be soo happy and thaankfull.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN2C016H

Funny, what was Trumps Policy? Increase your contributions to NATO or were reducing our troops levels.

Last June, Trump had announced his intention to cut the U.S. troop contingent in Germany by about a third, saying Berlin had been taking advantage of the United States while not meeting financial obligations to NATO.

Trump had singled out Germany, the largest economy in Europe, as a freeloader on the back of the U.S. military, telling Fox Business Network this summer that “Germany doesn’t pay what they’re supposed to pay” on NATO and that the country was “taking tremendous advantage.”

November 8th 2020

In an announcement by Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, Germany finally pledged to reach the NATO spending goal of 2 percent of economic output.

Mission accomplished, Trump still bad man, Biden takes credit, our troops remain and here's 500 additional troops to boot. But don't worry they'll all be vaccinated because we take care of our own

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Funny, what was Trumps Policy? Increase your contributions to NATO or were reducing our troops levels. [...]

This was probably the reason for underfunding the Bundeswehr
Or better, is

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Funny, what was Trumps Policy? Increase your contributions to NATO or were reducing our troops levels.

November 8th 2020

Mission accomplished, Trump still bad man, Biden takes credit, our troops remain and here's 500 additional troops to boot. But don't worry they'll all be vaccinated because we take care of our own

Nonsense. A pledge to fulfill the 2% goal Germany and other NATO countries have given already many years ago, and repeated it several times. Why do you think that this time it is more than just words - with a green coalition government coming in, and the enormous costs of the Covid Tsunami ? And Karrenbauer has to decide nothing, because she is defence, not finance. And the finance ministry - is ulta-red territory, the current federal minister heading it being an SPD man and an unscrupulous red sock.

Words are cheap. Cheaper than defence budgets, I mean.


And thansk for vaccinating the Bundeswehr people currently stationed in US bases for training. I admit Germany can need any help it could get to push the good cause.

[Rockstar]

Frankly I think all the rants about wanting higher contributions is mainly just to be a general pain in the arse because of NordStream2. If it wasn't for that I doubt we'd would really care.

[Skybird]

As I predicted, Annalena Baerbock is the Greens' candidate, it has just been formally announced. Since the CDU/CSU still are deadlocked in their selfdestruction, it still is possible that they make Laschet their candidate. In that case I see very realistic chances for Baerbock and the Greens to win the chancellor's office this autumn. If the union gets back to its senses and goes with Markus Söder (whose polling results currently are 3-4 times higher than that of Laschet...), the election is less open and predictable.

The SPD has its head in an imagined glorious past, and excells in this. Since this seems to be very relevant and satisfying for them, they do not care too much to win elecitons in the present. (And if they would, i still do not see they would have the means).

[Skybird]

The second time it seems the CDU bosses now hjave decided to make Laschet their candidate. They fearsomely avoided at all cost to let the party basis have any say on it, knowjhg that then they would get annihilated by the oarty vote. It is unknown whether Söder will this time accept the "defeat", he indicated in a rhetorical stunt some hours earlier that he leaves the decision to the CDU.


If it stays this way, this is a seocnd big pous for the Greens, for Ladhcte trails hre Green'S SAnnalena Baerbock clearly, with having not even one in ten Germans sympathising with the idea of him as chancellor. With Söder as candidate, almost every seocnd could imagien to then vote for the union.



Tells a lot on how disconnected from reality the CDU party fat cats are. They have divided out and distributed the bear's pelt already - without even finding it necessary to get a realistic plan how to hunt the bear down and kill it first.



Polls show that if this sunday there would be elections, with Laschet they could expect to lose 100 seats in the Bundestag. They currently hold 245, and Laschet clearly defeated by Baerbock. With Söder, they would gain seats as a union, and defeat Baerbock, and very clearly.