Cant hit "§$%&

LostDream · 04-20-10, 06:35 PM

Evening guys and girls.

Im having a problem with my current patrol. I am trying to use my Deck 8,8mm to engage targets below 2400 tons and torpedoes for anything above that. The last three merchants I encountered where a real pain.

I learned in the Marines to understand very well the effect gravity, powder charge, humidity, barometric pressure, and just plain human error has on crew serve weapons. When you call for a danger close fire mission, those details become very, very important! But in game, I can not for the life of me, get my deck gun to fire straight on the first salvo.

I would approach a target at night. Come to within 1K yards and be 90° on his Port side. Man the gun, with two PO with Deck Gun badges and a sailor with Flack Gun badge, zoom in and get a good sight picture / sight alignment. After that, I would ask my WO for distance to target, adjust my elevation and fire...and watch the round go 5 to 10 mils either left or right!!!

After this, of course the merchant is all up in arms, dodging and weaving for his life, while Im trying to "Kentucky Windage" my rounds on target.

Am I doing something wrong? Why is it that my first round is always off center and way the heck off! I would understand if the round was short / long, but when you place the ship square on the gun-site just to watch the round sail FAR left / right of your target is very, very frustrating.

Im really thinking of sending this bunch of slackers to the Panzergrenadier boot-camp so they can learn how to properly use their weapon!

Lord_magerius · 04-20-10, 08:34 PM

I think it's becaues your WO is looking for a solution for a torp. Best thing I find is to, find your rang using th UZO and then working with the rang that gives you, drop about 100m off at between 1000m - 1800m and you'll have a decent waterline shot

Immelman · 04-20-10, 09:15 PM

First off remember to lead you target. Depending on you position and range in relation to the target and your relative speed you may have to lead by alot or very little.

Second and most important factor is the state of the sea. No swell, little swell, heavy swell make all the difference and you have to compensate for it.

In the Marines I would bet you were shooting from a ground location. Now you are shooting from the deck of a Uboat. Whole new ball game shooting from a very unstable platform. There are 3 deck gun views regular (can't see s@@@ unless you are close say 500m. 1st zoom level can see and target up to 3000m. Extra zoom can actually see and target up to 6-7km.

We are interested in the second setting. Why you ask? Simply because in this one you can see your gun bore on the left side of you screen going up and down as your Uboat heaves up and down with the relentless waves.

That's right you guessed it you must time you shots when the barrel of the gun is more or less centered in the horizontal position and not when its pointing at the moon or aiming at the fish.

The bigger the swell of the waves the harder it is to shoot. The more off the center-line of the Uboat the deck gun is turned the more you feel the unstabilizing effect of the swell.

Patience is the key word here. Wait for the right moment to fire your shots and eventually you get in sync with the motion of the swells and hit the bulls-eye.

That's all you need to know now go out there and practice what you have learned

P.S. In moderate to heavy swell never let your drunken sailors fire the deck gun no matter how may qualifications they have. All you are doing is wasting you ammo. Fire manually you chances of success are far greater.

P.P.S. As the war advances this becomes more of a challenge, the merchies start firing back with better and more numerous guns as the war progresses. They also call in avaialble air support or surface ships in the area (50 km radius).

Weiss Pinguin · 04-21-10, 12:22 AM

Personally I find that the worse the ocean state, the easier it is to just eyeball the rounds in just using the crosshairs. After a while you can get a good idea of where to aim for certain distances, speeds, etc. Of course, if the weather's good enough, then the optics are the way to go.

Although, if your shots are going ridiculously far left/right then your deck gun may be bugging out... I remember a few people complaining about that a while back. I think what happened was the deck went under while they were traversing the gun, and that threw off the gun's aim somehow, causing the shells to go waaay off-target. I can't remember the solution though.

toodrunk · 04-21-10, 02:04 AM

Your gun is stabilized, watch it out of the corner of your eye as you're aiming. The barrel will be in 1 spot then all of a sudden pitch up, as it exceeds the stabilizing ability of the mount. (At least in stock. Dunno if this is true for GWX, haven't used it yet.)

LostDream · 04-21-10, 02:59 AM

Thank you all for the replies =).

As some of you have stated, the guns elevation, up and down pitch, does change depending on the see conditions. I have learned to take my time and timed my shots. Taking my time keeps me from either just shooting over my target, or scaring the heck out of Nemo and family

.

My problem is not with the elevation of my deck gun, it is with the traversing of it. When I fire my first salvo, though I may have the target dead centered in the sights ( by this I mean hitting tab once so I can see the barrel rise and fall to time my shot ) the round once fired would sail either ahead or behind the target. Sorry for the run-on sentence

I like to fire either from a 90° position to my target or to match its course / speed. I press the "Closses visual target" key and have my WO yell out distance and bearing of the target, this way I know how far away the target is and can adjust my guns elevation.

Dissaray · 04-21-10, 03:38 AM

You have the right idea, matching the targets speed, the course isn't so important as you can travese the gun to compensate for that. Coming in on a 90degree AOB isn't bad eather. I find it is also best to keep the target inside 20degrees or so of the bow, the ship tends to rock less that way alowing for accurate fire for a longer period. If you are finding your shots landing fore or aft of your target chances are your speed calculations are off or you aren't factoring in the range to target in your lead angle. shooting at a longer range will require you to lead the target just a bit diferantly, generaly a longer range needs a bit more lead. It seems you have learnd a bit about shooting in the millitary, though how much this will actualy help in the game is a bit of a question as the game isn't a 100% accurate simulation in all respects. I tend to aim for the center mass of the ship, more margin of error that way, and verticaly I go for the water line (based on the range to target given by the WO minus 100m give or take) for the quick kill, and adjust my point of aim as needed based on the varying cercumstances. With this method I can get close on the first shot and quickly get on target in short order.

In my experiance aiming for center mass still works best for geting the best firing solution even when the target is zig zaging. Eventualy you will find the rythem they are using and can adjust your fire accordingly.

About the only way to realy get good at shoing up the enemy ships with your deck gun is practice practice practice; just like with torpidos. I my self am fairly good with the deck gun but can't hit **** with the AA guns beacouse I tend to run and hide form the aircraft but redily engage with my 88. Runing the deck gun naval acadamy mission a few times just to get a feel for how the gun reacts to diferant speeds and angles will get you just the experiance you need without the frustration of having to hunt down enemy ships in the campain. That is what I have found any way. In the end shooting lots and lots of rounds is the best way to get good at things in the game, just like in real life shooting.

gazpode_l · 04-21-10, 04:15 AM

I think where the guy is pressing the tab key once or twice is necessarily where he iz going wrong.

I always shoot from the most zoomed out view where you have the red crosshairs - I find this the most accurate. I also didn't think the game would let you shoot from the other views as IMHO they are reference views and my version won't let you shoot from those views anyway

Like the other member said, use the "practice missions" in the training academy - they take like no time to load up and can be played over & over.

flakmonkey · 04-21-10, 07:51 AM

Do you run sh3commander?
I know the malfunctions option in sh3commander sometimes misaligns the scopes/uzo to simulate damage, maybe its doing something similar with the signt on the deck gun?

Hook · 04-21-10, 10:47 AM

If your shots are hitting consistently on one side, check where the shots are hitting in the sight reticule and use that as your new aiming point. For example, if the round hits 5 marks to the right of the target, move that mark on top of the target and continue to fire. In tanks we called this "burst on target" and it was normal practice.

If your shots are hitting wildly all around the target, turn it over to your gunners. They seem to have better luck hitting things in those conditions.

Hook

LostDream · 04-21-10, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hook

If your shots are hitting consistently on one side, check where the shots are hitting in the sight reticule and use that as your new aiming point. For example, if the round hits 5 marks to the right of the target, move that mark on top of the target and continue to fire. In tanks we called this "burst on target" and it was normal practice.

If your shots are hitting wildly all around the target, turn it over to your gunners. They seem to have better luck hitting things in those conditions.

Hook

I know how to Walk Round on Target, as well Burst on Target adjustments. My problem is that the first salvo is almost always off target no matter what I do.

@Flackmonkey -
I do run SH3 Commander, but have not played with any settings dealing with the gun, so there "should" not be a reason for the uzo/scopes/gun sights to be off zero.

Again my main concern is to have the 1st round hit the target where Im freaking pointing!

Wish I could just paint the target and watch as a JDAM turns the boat into a nice puff of smoke

Weiss Pinguin · 04-21-10, 01:15 PM

Well, as I said, sometimes when you traverse the gun just as the deck goes underwater, the aim can get thrown off by however much you tried to adjust. I've had this happen several times, especially in choppy waters. Usually I just try to compensate, or if it gets to aggravating I turn it over to the gun crew and play artillery spotter from the conning tower.

KL-alfman · 04-21-10, 01:41 PM

hello, LostDream, seems your problem isn't unique:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...light=deck-gun

(read from the 7th post)

Hook · 04-21-10, 06:20 PM

A submarine deck isn't exactly a stable gun platform. Unless the sea is dead calm, and I'm not even sure about then, you'll have constant variations in two axis (pitch and roll, whatever they're called on ships).

Consider what even minor variations in cant will do to a gun's aim. An elevation change adds an azimuth change. If the gun platform is tilted to the right, increasing elevation will cause the azimuth to shift right as well.

And this might be the source of the problem. Ever notice that when you enter the bridge, or go back and forth between the binocs and naked eye how the horizon level changes? It's easiest to see by looking at the UZO mount, which can be straight up and down or tilted at some angle.

While we don't see the same tilt in the gun view (I haven't noticed it anyway), it may be calculated and affecting our shots. At least it usually doesn't change continuously. Next time I have a good gunnery target, I'll test it a bit.

None of this is going to get you a first round hit every time. Sorry 'bout that.

Hook

Platapus · 04-21-10, 08:16 PM

I had the same problem.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/newr...te=1&p=1368594

04-20-10, 06:35 PM	#1
LostDream Sailor man Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 46 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Cant hit "§$%& Evening guys and girls. Im having a problem with my current patrol. I am trying to use my Deck 8,8mm to engage targets below 2400 tons and torpedoes for anything above that. The last three merchants I encountered where a real pain. I learned in the Marines to understand very well the effect gravity, powder charge, humidity, barometric pressure, and just plain human error has on crew serve weapons. When you call for a danger close fire mission, those details become very, very important! But in game, I can not for the life of me, get my deck gun to fire straight on the first salvo. I would approach a target at night. Come to within 1K yards and be 90° on his Port side. Man the gun, with two PO with Deck Gun badges and a sailor with Flack Gun badge, zoom in and get a good sight picture / sight alignment. After that, I would ask my WO for distance to target, adjust my elevation and fire...and watch the round go 5 to 10 mils either left or right!!! After this, of course the merchant is all up in arms, dodging and weaving for his life, while Im trying to "Kentucky Windage" my rounds on target. Am I doing something wrong? Why is it that my first round is always off center and way the heck off! I would understand if the round was short / long, but when you place the ship square on the gun-site just to watch the round sail FAR left / right of your target is very, very frustrating. Im really thinking of sending this bunch of slackers to the Panzergrenadier boot-camp so they can learn how to properly use their weapon!

04-20-10, 09:15 PM	#3
Immelman Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 150 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	First off remember to lead you target. Depending on you position and range in relation to the target and your relative speed you may have to lead by alot or very little. Second and most important factor is the state of the sea. No swell, little swell, heavy swell make all the difference and you have to compensate for it. In the Marines I would bet you were shooting from a ground location. Now you are shooting from the deck of a Uboat. Whole new ball game shooting from a very unstable platform. There are 3 deck gun views regular (can't see s@@@ unless you are close say 500m. 1st zoom level can see and target up to 3000m. Extra zoom can actually see and target up to 6-7km. We are interested in the second setting. Why you ask? Simply because in this one you can see your gun bore on the left side of you screen going up and down as your Uboat heaves up and down with the relentless waves. That's right you guessed it you must time you shots when the barrel of the gun is more or less centered in the horizontal position and not when its pointing at the moon or aiming at the fish. The bigger the swell of the waves the harder it is to shoot. The more off the center-line of the Uboat the deck gun is turned the more you feel the unstabilizing effect of the swell. Patience is the key word here. Wait for the right moment to fire your shots and eventually you get in sync with the motion of the swells and hit the bulls-eye. That's all you need to know now go out there and practice what you have learned P.S. In moderate to heavy swell never let your drunken sailors fire the deck gun no matter how may qualifications they have. All you are doing is wasting you ammo. Fire manually you chances of success are far greater. P.P.S. As the war advances this becomes more of a challenge, the merchies start firing back with better and more numerous guns as the war progresses. They also call in avaialble air support or surface ships in the area (50 km radius). __________________ Fotia kai tsekouri

04-21-10, 12:22 AM	#4
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Personally I find that the worse the ocean state, the easier it is to just eyeball the rounds in just using the crosshairs. After a while you can get a good idea of where to aim for certain distances, speeds, etc. Of course, if the weather's good enough, then the optics are the way to go. Although, if your shots are going ridiculously far left/right then your deck gun may be bugging out... I remember a few people complaining about that a while back. I think what happened was the deck went under while they were traversing the gun, and that threw off the gun's aim somehow, causing the shells to go waaay off-target. I can't remember the solution though. __________________

04-21-10, 04:15 AM	#8
gazpode_l 中国水兵 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chelmsford, Essex Posts: 280 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Deck Guns I think where the guy is pressing the tab key once or twice is necessarily where he iz going wrong. I always shoot from the most zoomed out view where you have the red crosshairs - I find this the most accurate. I also didn't think the game would let you shoot from the other views as IMHO they are reference views and my version won't let you shoot from those views anyway Like the other member said, use the "practice missions" in the training academy - they take like no time to load up and can be played over & over.

04-21-10, 07:51 AM	#9
flakmonkey Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Staffordshire, Uk Posts: 944 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Do you run sh3commander? I know the malfunctions option in sh3commander sometimes misaligns the scopes/uzo to simulate damage, maybe its doing something similar with the signt on the deck gun? __________________

04-20-10, 08:34 PM	#2
Lord_magerius Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Right by the hydrophone station Posts: 724 Downloads: 96 Uploads: 0	I think it's becaues your WO is looking for a solution for a torp. Best thing I find is to, find your rang using th UZO and then working with the rang that gives you, drop about 100m off at between 1000m - 1800m and you'll have a decent waterline shot

04-21-10, 02:04 AM	#5
toodrunk Seaman Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 42 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Your gun is stabilized, watch it out of the corner of your eye as you're aiming. The barrel will be in 1 spot then all of a sudden pitch up, as it exceeds the stabilizing ability of the mount. (At least in stock. Dunno if this is true for GWX, haven't used it yet.)

04-21-10, 02:59 AM	#6
LostDream Sailor man Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 46 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Thank you all for the replies =). As some of you have stated, the guns elevation, up and down pitch, does change depending on the see conditions. I have learned to take my time and timed my shots. Taking my time keeps me from either just shooting over my target, or scaring the heck out of Nemo and family . My problem is not with the elevation of my deck gun, it is with the traversing of it. When I fire my first salvo, though I may have the target dead centered in the sights ( by this I mean hitting tab once so I can see the barrel rise and fall to time my shot ) the round once fired would sail either ahead or behind the target. Sorry for the run-on sentence I like to fire either from a 90° position to my target or to match its course / speed. I press the "Closses visual target" key and have my WO yell out distance and bearing of the target, this way I know how far away the target is and can adjust my guns elevation.

04-21-10, 03:38 AM	#7
Dissaray 中国水兵 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 280 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	You have the right idea, matching the targets speed, the course isn't so important as you can travese the gun to compensate for that. Coming in on a 90degree AOB isn't bad eather. I find it is also best to keep the target inside 20degrees or so of the bow, the ship tends to rock less that way alowing for accurate fire for a longer period. If you are finding your shots landing fore or aft of your target chances are your speed calculations are off or you aren't factoring in the range to target in your lead angle. shooting at a longer range will require you to lead the target just a bit diferantly, generaly a longer range needs a bit more lead. It seems you have learnd a bit about shooting in the millitary, though how much this will actualy help in the game is a bit of a question as the game isn't a 100% accurate simulation in all respects. I tend to aim for the center mass of the ship, more margin of error that way, and verticaly I go for the water line (based on the range to target given by the WO minus 100m give or take) for the quick kill, and adjust my point of aim as needed based on the varying cercumstances. With this method I can get close on the first shot and quickly get on target in short order. In my experiance aiming for center mass still works best for geting the best firing solution even when the target is zig zaging. Eventualy you will find the rythem they are using and can adjust your fire accordingly. About the only way to realy get good at shoing up the enemy ships with your deck gun is practice practice practice; just like with torpidos. I my self am fairly good with the deck gun but can't hit **** with the AA guns beacouse I tend to run and hide form the aircraft but redily engage with my 88. Runing the deck gun naval acadamy mission a few times just to get a feel for how the gun reacts to diferant speeds and angles will get you just the experiance you need without the frustration of having to hunt down enemy ships in the campain. That is what I have found any way. In the end shooting lots and lots of rounds is the best way to get good at things in the game, just like in real life shooting.

04-21-10, 10:47 AM	#10
Hook Bosun Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 63 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If your shots are hitting consistently on one side, check where the shots are hitting in the sight reticule and use that as your new aiming point. For example, if the round hits 5 marks to the right of the target, move that mark on top of the target and continue to fire. In tanks we called this "burst on target" and it was normal practice. If your shots are hitting wildly all around the target, turn it over to your gunners. They seem to have better luck hitting things in those conditions. Hook

04-21-10, 01:15 PM	#12
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Well, as I said, sometimes when you traverse the gun just as the deck goes underwater, the aim can get thrown off by however much you tried to adjust. I've had this happen several times, especially in choppy waters. Usually I just try to compensate, or if it gets to aggravating I turn it over to the gun crew and play artillery spotter from the conning tower. __________________

04-21-10, 01:41 PM	#13
KL-alfman Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Weimar Posts: 930 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	hello, LostDream, seems your problem isn't unique: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...light=deck-gun (read from the 7th post) __________________ Life, Liberty and Property!

04-21-10, 06:20 PM	#14
Hook Bosun Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 63 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A submarine deck isn't exactly a stable gun platform. Unless the sea is dead calm, and I'm not even sure about then, you'll have constant variations in two axis (pitch and roll, whatever they're called on ships). Consider what even minor variations in cant will do to a gun's aim. An elevation change adds an azimuth change. If the gun platform is tilted to the right, increasing elevation will cause the azimuth to shift right as well. And this might be the source of the problem. Ever notice that when you enter the bridge, or go back and forth between the binocs and naked eye how the horizon level changes? It's easiest to see by looking at the UZO mount, which can be straight up and down or tilted at some angle. While we don't see the same tilt in the gun view (I haven't noticed it anyway), it may be calculated and affecting our shots. At least it usually doesn't change continuously. Next time I have a good gunnery target, I'll test it a bit. None of this is going to get you a first round hit every time. Sorry 'bout that. Hook

04-21-10, 08:16 PM	#15
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,948 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I had the same problem. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/newr...te=1&p=1368594 __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.