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Old 07-14-2010, 09:38 PM   #1
TheBeast
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[REQ][TEC][WISH]MEGAMOD Team Project

There is a lot of talent floating around, doing individual updates. Lately, more often then not, these updates are overlapping each other(touching the same files), generating MOD conflicts so the end user can used MOD A but not MOD B. Both MOD's are very nice, very cool, both are historically accurate, why can't the end user have both MOD A and MOD B at the same time. Lets make that happen and more.
I think it is time for a Mega MOD Team to form up. Making all these very cool MOD updates compatible with each other resulting in a Mega MOD.

Since I am starting this thread, providing a basic high level overview of the project, At this time, I would like to suggest a Team Name... The Skunk Works Project or SWX. I suggest this name for one reason. The British use to refer to German U-Boats as "Skunks" because they smelled so bad but the Team Name is totally open for discussion as with list of desired Team Members.

Private Team Forum:
Maybe Neil Steveans can create a Private Forum for Team Members only. This can help keep the team focused on accepted feature modification and the wish list can be a separate public forum. The Wish List could be discussed once a week in team meetings(WAR Meetings) where bugs, features and wishes are examine and priorities are set.
The Private Team Meetings can be conducted using MIRC or Ventrilo(VOIP) or both. Meeting Minutes(notes) can taking by designated Scribe(s) during the meeting then posted to the private forum for those that were unable to attend the live meeting(s).

Team Leader:
For the Team Leader, I think someone with prior experience working in a Mega MOD team environment should hold this position. If he is willing to accept it, I would like to nominate PRIVATEER for this position.

Team Members:
There are several people that come to mind right away that IMO, obviousy belong on this project. As for me, I am not on this obvious list of names but I would like to be a Team Member in some fashion if possible.
Historian's - I feel we should stay as close to historically accurate as possible but at the same time, keeping in mind that SH5 is a game, the game does have limitations and people need to enjoy playing the game/sim.
MOD'rs/Developers - MOD'ing should be broken in to several main focus area's, i.e. User Interface(Main, Navigation, Sonar, Radar, Deck Watch, InteriorRoomX(Gauges) etc.), AI-Enemy, AI-Crew, Sub Physic's, Crew Dialog, Animations, Equipment Upgrades, Campaigns(by Area(i.e. Total Germany, Happy Times. etc.)), Environmetal, Textures, etc. This list of focus area's can be huge or small depending on who wants what responsibilities within the team.
NOTE: All changes should be developed as individual updates, compatible with the overall MEGA MOD. The individual updates are all Merged together for release as a MEGA MOD just prior to release allowing for one or two test passes as a Merger MEGA MOD prior to actual release. This will help streamline the testing process, resulting in quicker turn around times providing quick and accurate feedback to the developers.
Testing - Designating Trusted Testers that understand what is taking place. They know what needs to be verified when changes are made prior to being rolled into the Mega MOD.
Team Scribe(s) - Responsible for taking notes during team meetings. They then post the Multi-Languare notes in the Team Forum for later review by those that were unable to attend live meetings. The Team Scribe(s) are also responsible for documentation of the MEGA MOD, keeping track of Credits for work done/used and providing the README documentation to the End Users. Also Multi-Language Localization.

Source Safe:
Implement some type of secure file check out process. Any file or files can only be checked out by one person at any given time. When that person is finished MOD'ing that file or files, they check their changes back into the safe allowing for someone else to check it out. This will prevent several people making changes to the same file at the same time without knowing what changes are being made by others stopping many bugs before they have a chance to start. (NOTE: A Secure Source Safe may require a dedicated file server). This server could also act as the secure download source for incremental updates to be used for testing.

IS IT THAT TIME?
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:45 PM   #2
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Well, here are my opinions on the subject:

- With the new community developer having been assigned by Ubi, and with the way he is aggressively searching for information regarding a possible patch, I am not so sure that Ubi has abandoned us yet. I am not saying that I am sure another patch is coming, but it is possible. If one does come, it would really throw a wrench into a super mod team's plans. Now, I don't want to be blasted for this by the Ubi haters crew, I am not saying this in support of Ubi, I am simply saying that I don't want a bunch of people to do a bunch of work and then have it messed up.

- Also, as Privateer has pointed out several times before, we do not have all the tools we need. And, we don't have enough information or knowhow built up with the tools we do have. This problem is constantly grounding people's work.

- On the other hand, as everyone who frequents these forums knows, I strive to ensure compatibility between my mods and other people's mods, and it is extra work to do so. That is one of the reasons why me and BIGREG are working together now, since we both have files that affect the interior, it is easier for us to keep things compatible by working side by side. The same would obviously be true on the large scale, so, you have a very good point there. The conflicts between mods are getting maddening.

- Now, of course cooperation would greatly speed many modders up. Heck, I have been clamoring for any information/help I can get with my interior mod because it simply takes too much time for one man to: come up with ideas, do all the research, figure out how to change something, change it, test it, change it again, etc.


On the whole, I would love to see more cooperation, though I am really undecided on whether or not a super mod team should be formed. If others would be interested in forming a super mod team, I would be happy to help in any way I can if my help is wanted. If the majority of other modders do not think it is a good idea, I would still like to see a movement towards cooperation for the sake of compatibility between individual mods.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelViking View Post
Well, here are my opinions on the subject:

- With the new community developer having been assigned by Ubi, and with the way he is aggressively searching for information regarding a possible patch,
Even with the possible release of a new patch, that really has little impact on forming a team. It will take time to determine objective and direction. Hopefully by the time the team begins to gain that focus any patch will have been release. Even if a patch is release after the team has started work, it should not require to much work on any one person as the workload will have been devided into special focus area's.
Quote:
- Also, as Privateer has pointed out several times before, we do not have all the tools we need. And, we don't have enough information or knowhow built up with the tools we do have. This problem is constantly grounding people's work.
Tools could be the primary focus as the team begins to form. Finding Tools, Creating/Testing Tools etc.
Quote:
- On the other hand, as everyone who frequents these forums knows, I strive to ensure compatibility between my mods and other people's mods, and it is extra work to do so. That is one of the reasons why me and BIGREG are working together now, since we both have files that affect the interior, it is easier for us to keep things compatible by working side by side. The same would obviously be true on the large scale, so, you have a very good point there. The conflicts between mods are getting maddening.
You. Naights, BIGREG, Conus, Sober and whoever else is making or has made interior MOD should be working together and stop pushing/poking each other. If the people I mentioned here all worked together, just imagine what you guys could do and how fast it could be done. Lots and lots of talent running loose right now. I say snag the talent now while they are fresh/willing/ready and produce some of the best work the Silent Hunter Community has ever seen.

Quote:
- Now, of course cooperation would greatly speed many modders up. Heck, I have been clamoring for any information/help I can get with my interior mod because it simply takes too much time~
All the research has already been done, many times over. Look in the SHIII/SH4 forums. These forums are loaded with the information and pictures you are looking for.

Quote:
On the whole, I would love to see more cooperation, though I am really undecided on whether or not a super mod team should be formed. If others would be interested in forming a super mod team, I would be happy to help in any way I can if my help is wanted.
Team Work == Cooperation. If cooperation is what you are looking for, then there is NO DOUBT about forming a Team. Patches do not matter. Continued Ubi support does not matter. Focus, Cooperation and Team Work is what matters, nothing else...
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:16 AM   #4
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Aye, you have once again made some very good points. However, I disagree that patches don't matter. They do to me. I have hit many road blocks that can only be removed by either more patches, more file usage/editing rights given by Ubi, or a ridiculous amount of workarounds(I have been doing some of this lately and it is not fun).

Like I said though, if others would be interested in forming a team, I would be on board. And, keep in mind everyone, we do not need to try to aim anywhere near as high as GWX.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:31 AM   #5
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Some of these road blocks can be bypassed at this time as PRIVATEER and TheDarkWraith have pointed out and demonstrated work arounds. You are I may not posess the skill to do it but in a team environment, some one there may have the required skills and can help us by using their Hex Editing skills to make the required changes and remove some of these road blocks.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeast View Post
Some of these road blocks can be bypassed at this time as PRIVATEER and TheDarkWraith have pointed out and demonstrated work arounds. You are I may not posess the skill to do it but in a team environment, some one there may have the required skills and can help us by using their Hex Editing skills to make the required changes and remove some of these road blocks.
What they've done/talked about are some of the workarounds I mentioned. If we were given full access to the GR2 files, things would be WAY easier to accomplish.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelViking View Post
What they've done/talked about are some of the workarounds I mentioned. If we were given full access to the GR2 files, things would be WAY easier to accomplish.
Already being worked on at this time. Not certain about the progress but I do know it is in work.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:33 AM   #8
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First I have not heard about the community developer - wish they'd had one when they started on Sh5 so we wouldnt have such an abortion to fix -

Seriouisly I apreciate you dont want to start a Ubi-bash and neither do I - can you tell those of us who dont know about the developer and where he/she lives so we can male helpful and constuctive sugestions.

Can the said developer drop us a line to confirm Ubi's continuing interest in this game and the SubSim Forum
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by rascal101 View Post
First I have not heard about the community developer - wish they'd had one when they started on Sh5 so we wouldnt have such an abortion to fix -

Seriouisly I apreciate you dont want to start a Ubi-bash and neither do I - can you tell those of us who dont know about the developer and where he/she lives so we can male helpful and constuctive sugestions.

Can the said developer drop us a line to confirm Ubi's continuing interest in this game and the SubSim Forum
Here is a link to the thread that the moderators made for problems to be posted so that the Com Dev could easily find them.

Link:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172155
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:23 AM   #10
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There is no point yet to involve such a great effort in something that can be broken up by a patch. Mega mods should not be worked out until the last patch will not arrive. Sad thing is that these thief's stole our money and now they work on other projects, so no timeline for the next patches

But Sorlim gave an advice to make a mod pack, where will be included the most needed mods, so all nobs can install the "must have" mods without spending days to figure out what is what and if they are compatible with each other. Because right now, that's maybe the biggest problem with the mods.. finding them and make them compatible.

We have already something similar now, like TDW and Reaper's UI mods, those have included most of the useful mods around. But in the same time, those mods have some unique features that are not available as standalone mods, so there is not much room left for customization. Is like... take it or leave it.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:00 PM   #11
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You can count me in. If and when it forms .
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:42 PM   #12
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Three thoughts:

- GR2 file format is a major c**kblocker.

- It's a lot of work. I hope you guys realize that.

- Seems to me, TheBeast is already acting as Project Manager since he's the man with the plan.


Have fun!
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:01 AM   #13
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At first you should have list of issues to see what is done what is not.
And in the next step: who is working on unsolved problem.

For example:
TDW prepares mod with torpedo attack from planes (and still working with AI)... but who is working on torpedo pylones for planes now?
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducimus View Post
Three thoughts:

- GR2 file format is a major c**kblocker.
Yes it is but I really do not think Ubi is going to change the Model format any time soon if at all. No matter what happens, It is something that everyone is going to forced to deal with.
Discovering/Devoloping Tools in this area is a MUST DO action item for the entire SH5 MOD'ing community.
Quote:
- It's a lot of work. I hope you guys realize that.

- Seems to me, TheBeast is already acting as Project Manager since he's the man with the plan.
I've been trying to dodge this bullet. My People Skills are very blunt Marine Corps Style. I've been trying for many years to change that but even 20+ years after retiring from the military, some people have issue's with the way I say things. My younger sister avoided me for a very long time after I had been in the military for a while. She told me "every thing I say, sounds like I am giving orders.".
I have been Project Manager for many real life project and I've always had clashes with people that feel I am overbearing or just don't like the way I ask for things to get done. Always these clashes have been with people that had zero miltary background. i.e. One time someone, after finding out I was in the Marines said to me "Sempher Fi", I replied "Do or die!" as I always have. Later I found out that person really thought I had threatened his life. All I ment was "Complete your mission or die trying.". Maybe a bit to much Spartan for most(Come back with your sheild or on it).

Just seeing Ducimus here in this forums thread gives me hope that a team may form up. Even if he doesn't want to be part of it. I hope that some of the old school Hard Core MOD'rs Ducimus, Lurker, MadMax and many other will at least be available for advice and answer some "How do I" questions I am certain will surface.
You guys(GWX, TMO, OM, FoTRS, RFB, etc.) know so much about WWII history and how to get that into the game, your MOD's reak with the knowlege you guys have. I feel, it would be a great loss to everyone if we(SH5) were to lose access to the time and efforts you guys have already and or continue to put into the Silent Hunter Community. Please, do not stay away because of some stupid Ubi corporate mistake requiring a Constant Internet Connection.
I truely do not think the DEV's are responsable for this blunder but with all the anger flying around, they really have no choice but to hide from the masses. Personally, at first, I made a list of everyone listed in the SH5 Credits to put on my do not buy anything these guys worked on list. I have sence that time changed my mind, only Ubi and Blizzard remain on that list now. Do I feel I got burned buying SH5? Not really, maybe a bit singed but the bridge to my wallet definately got burnt down and it is going to take a lot on Ubi's part to repair that connection.
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:13 AM   #15
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A few years ago we had an american war ship berth in brisbane and if a mod team was run as efficiently as the american navy then we would be on a winner .
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