Afghanistan deadline

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Gotcha. The questions remains....where the heck is the Afghan forces?

I wonder if thes guys, in the hastily vacated presidential palace, will be nice to American puppet and retired Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, who is remaining in Kabul with with his three daughters...

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Guess I'm not the only one thinking how could the well trained and well equip army just give up so quickly to some not so well trained and equip.

Then I came to think of what Skybird wrote

"Where there is no grown identifying with a state, their is no loyalty to that state.

They are more loyal to their clan or family.

Markus

There is also a very well organized and armed Taliban. Let's figure in those that for cash look the other way and help the Taliban. In short, the Afghan army knows it is a losing battle.

[Vector64]

Never saw a government fall so fast as the afghan

[Cyborg322]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Guess I'm not the only one thinking how could the well trained and well equip army just give up so quickly to some not so well trained and equip.

Then I came to think of what Skybird wrote

"Where there is no grown identifying with a state, their is no loyalty to that state.

They are more loyal to their clan or family.

Markus

The Afghan army gave to so easily because the Taliban deal in deep psychological fear they are terrorist not just in name. They fear reprisals to themselves their families and even their contacts they know they are alone with no allies to help. Negotiating with the Taliban has proved to be useless how that was ever an option baffles me. The Taliban have won hands down both in military and political terms. There was no thought out exit plan and they are now benefitting from it. It is outrageous to say the very least. Now they have the means and finances to wreak havoc if they wish to do so

Simon

[mapuc]

Today we woke to a new situation near the Middle East. A huge changes in Afghanistan and its neighbouring countries(yes they will be affected too)

A terror group has retaken their country.

Can we expect more terror in Europe/Middle East/world from now on ?

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Today we woke to a new situation near the Middle East. A huge changes in Afghanistan and its neighbouring countries(yes they will be affected too)

A terror group has retaken their country.

Can we expect more terror in Europe/Middle East/world from now on ?

Markus

You can bet the Taliban will look to Iraq next. And can also bet Europe is looking to ramp up alertness to possible terrorist attack.

[Jimbuna]

At least five people are reported killed at Kabul airport as Afghans flee following the Taliban's takeover of the country.

The Pentagon says all flights have now been halted after several incidents.

The US is also sending another 1,000 troops to help with the evacuation.

More than 60 countries have issued a joint statement calling on the Taliban to allow people to leave.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

More than 60 countries have issued a joint statement calling on the Taliban to allow people to leave.

Falling on deaf ears.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

More than 60 countries have issued a joint statement calling on the Taliban to allow people to leave.

Any Muslim country among these 60 ?

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Any Muslim country among these 60 ?

Markus

That's a pretty good question.

[Aktungbby]

Vector64!

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

More than 60 countries have issued a joint statement calling on the Taliban to allow people to leave.

They have been leaving in droves for years. Using MMC July 2020 stats there have been well over 600,000 people which left Afghanistan in the last couple of years probably close to a million by now. Most of whom are heading towards Turkey and Iran and I suspect a lot of those will if they haven’t already eventually find their way into the E.U. and Skybird’s hometown. Might be why Turkey is in country maybe trying to regulate the flow. That, and most people in the central Afghan highlands are ethnic minority Turk, mongol and one other I can’t remember.

https://mixedmigration.org/articles/...ove-in-turkey/

Btw how did you like that picture showing the Taliban sporting those m4’s and m4a1’s? I thought they looked fairly new too.

[Skybird]

A German major who was on mission in Afghanistan 2011 since then operates a network for local helpers, since years, and being - or bette rhaving been - in contact with severla thpsuands of these. He was just on the Heut ehorunal braodcast, and I will link that when it goes on youtube in two or three hours. He said that there now is a ring of Taleban around the airport that is nto confronting the Wetsenr presence ther,e but its guarding against the city and that makes it impossible for anyone in the city to reach to the airport. He said that the sdafe houses the German had been running over the past weeks and months, all had been dissolced today because the Taleban systematically go from door to door searching for these safe houses and "traitors", killing them and their families. Our news over the past days said that several hundred people lived int hese safe hpouses. He said when he told them that it is no longer safe to stay and that they should dissapear into the surrounding population, these people were totally and competely shocked. He said the visa process was designed to never work, that the office was insufficjentzly equiopped, and that the protocpol demanded the visa request must be put in afghanbiostan, not form a refuge inba bordering coutnry, thats whzy these people, many hundreds, hid int hese safe houses in Kabul and stayed there for months, hoping in that the Germans would keep their promise. He said that in this morning his project office still had contact to 1500 Afghan helpers and their families. And indicated that now almost all communication links are dead.

The man is shaken. He was calm, self-controlled, a typical attitude that you often can see in prfessioanl soldiers, but his eyes were staring and kind of icy-cold, hard. Politeness and self-control forbid him to become rude in words, but I do not want to know what he really thinks about this biggest and most shameful failure of a german foreign ministry and minister ever in the history of the federal republic. That garden gnome always has been such a carricature of a diplomat, and made me sick on the day he took office. That man never talks. He lets sounds drip out of his sound-hatch, like air bubbles raise from underwater.

The German A400M over Kabul again is running out of fuel and cannot land.

By what that major said, the hope that more Afghan helpers can make it to the airport, seems to be hopeless. The Taleban have isolated the airport. There are only those Afghans inpolace who already are there. The people that are intended now - late - to get evacuated, cnanot reach the escape chance anymore.

There will be a hidden and silent massacre amongst some thousands if not tens of thousands.

There are no more women on the streets. All the preicous wodnerful acchievements the West boasted about - annihilated within one week as iof they never had been there. And the Taleban, after 20 years, back, and stronger than ever before.

Words fail to describe the illusions the West has had over the one top one and a half decade.

I also learned today the Americans made many concessions - and already under Trump - in meetings with the Taleban, while the Taleban gave none.

Biden apparently never was in favour of US interventionism, say the media at least. Seen this way he remains true to himself. But he will need to face rresponsibility for how this ends. Responsibility for havign created the mess in the frist will be needed to be accepted by his predecessors.

And he has one killer argument on his side:

"American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves."

There is no counterargument to this, and I have the strongest of sympathies for this reasoning.

[MGR1]

The different levels of kinship groups provides the basis for identity and social order, and explain two key phenomena of tribal society. First, there is intense competition between kinship groups, with each seeking to maximise advantages for their group members. Second, groups may unite when faced by an external threat. These are both captured in the Arab saying, "I against my brother; I and my brother against my cousin; I and my brother and my cousin against the world". This phenomenon engenders a natural suspicion and closing of rank against the "other", and intra-group reinforcing mechanisms, such as a preference for close intermarriage and assistance or favourable treatment to those within the group.

Quoted from Chapter 2, pages 52-53 of "The Evolution of the Armed Forces of the United Arab Emirates" by Athol Yates, bold mine.

Although dealing with the UAE, it'll most likely be applicable to Afghanistan and it's tribal structure as well. Unlike the UAE, Afghanistan does not have a set of strong family groupings to hold things together from the center. Arguably it never has, even under it's former monarchy.

It should also explain that Western style democracy just won't work there or anywhere else in the Middle East and Central Asia - the local cultures are just too different.

Mike.

[mapuc]

When it comes to us ordinary people discussing Afghanistan and the Afghan army I have read different reason to why why the army gave up without fighting.

Haven't heard any official reason to why. Here I'm thinking on our politicians in the West.

Markus