GER politics thread

[Skybird]

Not Germany, but Austria:
Berivan Aslan, a Green politician with Turkish roots, lives under police protection now since a man confessed to the police that he was hired to assassinate her - in the name of the Turkish secret service.


Since months Austria sees a debate about how to deal with an incredibly impertinent and hostile acting Turkish secret service conducting large operation in Austria to hujack members of Turkish opposition and Austrians with Turkish roots voicing criticism of Erdoghan.


And Germany? Babbles, ignores and ducks away - as always. Althoigh insiders say Germany has become the biggest playground of Turkish intel operations.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Althoigh insiders say Germany has become the biggest playground of Turkish intel operations.

If true, why do you think this is?

[Rockstar]

Seems the will of the appointed political bourgeoisie is the Supreme law of the land but I wasn't sure if I should have started an European Union politics thread or not.


EUROPEAN Union bosses show a flagrant disregard for their own rules by allowing Germany to ignore the bloc’s laws that other weaker countries are forced to abide by, Express.co.uk can reveal today.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...urt-of-Justice

Germany has established back-door legislation which overrules the EU’s laws on SUPREMACY. Under these supremacy laws all member nations must subjugate their own courts and laws to the over-arching powers of the European Union. Supremacy is supposed to be the bedrock of the EU. However the Germans have found a way around it, according to an EU lawyer and legal expert. Last year, a shock report revealed that Berlin is the EU’s top rule breaker despite efforts by Angela Merkel, the bloc’s most influential leader, to lecture her colleagues on their wrongdoings.




We have these supremacy issues between the federal government and states too. But no state is such a blatant hypocrite as the one found in the Merkelreich

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If true, why do you think this is?

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If true, why do you think this is?

Persecution of Erdoghan critics (Germany has a very huge Turkish sub community), and control mania by erdoghan, wanting to take revenge. He also holds many Turks in prison who have German nationality and made the mistake to travel to Turkey wanting to visit families, its also political hostage taking. Finally, Turkey traditionally tries to kick in the door and wants to widen its influence in Europe, this time not via Vienna, but Germany wehre the state has allowed Turkish ministries and policies extraordinary influence and special rights no other religious or cultural.ethnic group in Germany has. This invitation is massively abused by Turkish nationalism and Islamization efforts. The German ministerial board for Islam-state dialogue is a platform for radical Islamic fundamentalists mostly controlled by Turkey - and the government acts completely helpless in the face of this, does not know how to deal with it without needing to admit that they are no logner in control of those parts of German society where Turkish subcultue and imported mix of Turkish nationalism and Islamic radicalism have the say.

Its the same fault the Germans made that the french made with their Algerians, the Swedes with general Muslim m igration, and the UK with its Pakistani sub-culture and the Dutch with the Indonesians. Its always the same. And the troubleful subgroups all have one thing in common: they are not just strangers and aliens from other places, we have many of these and they mostly do not pose problem, no, the troublemakers all are Muslim communities. Its always Islam at the centre of it.

Thats why I am so totally hostile to further migration of Muslims to Europe and Germany, and not necessarly to migration of qualified and integration-willing foreigners from non-Muslim countries. I strictly diferentiate between Muslim and non-Muslim migration now. The first: No. The latter: after individual checking, and an economic benefit for Germany: yes. But Germans do not want to chose this way, it reminds of the selection process of the Nazis at those cattle trains to the camps... Thats why we now let in just everbyody, unchecked and blindly.

Thats why I want a dismantling of the asylum laws and a complete new writing of them. I do not accept a general right for UNLIMITED asylum and unlimited free moving. Asylum to me must be temporary, and limited by time. The overwhelming majority of denied asylum requests still stay in Germany and get endlessly "tolerated". Only a very small fracit0on of these case get forced to leave the country. Many of them later come back and start new. We even pay them money so that they leave (and then later return again).

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Seems the will of the appointed political bourgeoisie is the Supreme law of the land but I wasn't sure if I should have started an European Union politics thread or not.


EUROPEAN Union bosses show a flagrant disregard for their own rules by allowing Germany to ignore the bloc’s laws that other weaker countries are forced to abide by, Express.co.uk can reveal today.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...urt-of-Justice

Germany has established back-door legislation which overrules the EU’s laws on SUPREMACY. Under these supremacy laws all member nations must subjugate their own courts and laws to the over-arching powers of the European Union. Supremacy is supposed to be the bedrock of the EU. However the Germans have found a way around it, according to an EU lawyer and legal expert. Last year, a shock report revealed that Berlin is the EU’s top rule breaker despite efforts by Angela Merkel, the bloc’s most influential leader, to lecture her colleagues on their wrongdoings.




We have these supremacy issues between the federal government and states too. But no state is such a blatant hypocrite as the one found in the Merkelreich

The whole history of the EU (and the Euro, btw), is a long chain of lies, broken rules, ignored laws and broken promises. Everybody tries to evade the rules if they do not match his views and scheme of things. Even the EU itself brakes its own rules if the outcome of the rules (or votes) do not give the expected (means: demanded) results. I often complained about the way the dictate of Lisbon (the eU constitution) was enforced behind closed doors although by the rules and after rejecting the draft in several countries it should have been thrown onto the garbage heap of history. The Maastrichtd criteria for the Euro and the law-encoded prohibition of states or the ECB financing other states and the ban of collectivising individual national debts, are just the most obvious exmaples. And in 2015, the German goverment even decided to break constitutional obligatiosn to protect borders, which it is not free to chose for, but that it is oblugated to make sure, no matter what.

Politicians, all of them, lie and cheat and betray, and they do it all the time. Thats why I am so in rage about them, and never trust anyone of them, and never put any faith in written state laws, treaties, documents and all that. Its just a piss of ink on a piece of worthless paper.

The Germans are not more and not less guilty or innocent than the other EU members. And the EU instititutions themselves. And Greece for example was only accepted into the Euro because France and Germany together decided to ignore that the disqualification of Greece due to its financial status and economy should be ignored, for nothing but sentimental reasons. Its known by now what came from that. And from the whole Euro desaster (that was enforced by the French).

I expect to see high two-digit inflation rates long before the middle of this century, and now after Corona it will come rather sooner than later.
P.S. and btw without the payments from Germany and its hilarious liability-taking for the debts of other nations, the whole EU and Euro thing already would have collapsed years ago. After Brexit completed, the German share will skyrocket even further, due to direct and indirect cost risings.

[Skybird]

The Nord Stream 2 construction seems to continue. Three Russian supply ships and the construciton ship itself have left the harbour on Rügen were they spent the past months for reconfiguration, and currently cruise in the Baltic east of Bornholm and south of Gotland. The German authorities made it known to shipping traffic in the region where the pipeline's unfinished endings are located that all traffic should manouver with caution due to construction work in the area.

I dont like the complications and implications due to the Russians practicing their poisoning hobby so excessively, but agree more on finishing the pipeline than I disagree with it, it is of the far bigger strategic interest, and increases the options and degrees of freedoms in Europe's energy policies (not just Germany's: Europe's). In the end the US fumes only for one reason about this: because Europeans do not want to buy their liquid gas of inferior quality and for overpriced money. And additonal demand for US liquid gas is so very non-existent in Europe that the Germans have stopped a project to build a new terminal for these tankers in Wilhelmshaven (an offer made to appease the Americans). Problem is: the German failed to find any customers for it. Nobody wnats to buy the ameican gas. None. Not a single additional customer. Why bulding a terminal then at the cost of the German tax payer?

The Polish are angry only because they had their own plans to sack many coins for controlling energy imports to Europe via their own project that collided heads-on with Nord Stream 2. The Baltic states would have liked to have a finger on the blackmailing option trigger, too, and now see another pipeline placed that in case of them conflicting with Europe and wanting to blackmail it, could flank their strategic intentions. The Ukraine also loses options to steal gas from the transit pipeline and possibly blackmailing Europe via the pipeline on its territory. Okay, they all are pissed, I understand, its easy to see. I dont care. Poland pisses the EU and us a very lot since years. They should have expected that this must backfire sooner or later. Once the yhave turned from the by far a lead the biggest net receiver of money from Brussel into a serious net contributor, we can talk again about their strageicx relevance. Currently they take more money from Brussels than the next three or five biggest receivers alltogether.

And the Americans? I dont care either. Europe must learn to play them much tougher, and to be more brutal in defending its own economic interests against "America First".

But Europe also must grow some seriously more military muscles, no doubt on that either.

[Rockstar]

The Nordstream 2 gas pipeline has been steadfastly supported by key players in Germany, including much of the German energy sector and notably the SPD. Their core argument has consistently been that this pipeline is “good for Germany.”

And indeed, Nordstream 2 will make Germany the European gas hub for Russian gas. It is also likely to result in increased liquidity in the gas market and lower German prices. German business also likes the pipeline because it sees it as leading to expanded access to Russian markets.
However, this national interest perspective overlooks the very significant costs that flow from support for Nordstream 2 for German power and influence.

The opposition: Where Brussels and Warsaw stand united

In particular, the states of Central and Eastern Europe have a very compelling argument for their proposition that Germany is in effect assisting Russia in undermining the smaller Central and Eastern European countries’ core security interests.
Their concerns are given extra validation by the opposition of the European Commission itself. Its opposition is rooted in the fact that Nordstream 2 undermines the development of a single European gas market.
The key question is this: How should one look at Nordstream 2 from a pan-EU security perspective – and not just a German national perspective? Currently, the flow of Russian natural gas from Russia through the states of Central and Eastern Europe goes through the Yamal pipeline (which runs through Belarus and Poland) and the Brotherhood pipeline (through Ukraine and Slovakia).
The current set-up provides the states that are located along the two gas pipeline routes with a degree of transit security. Russia cannot threaten to cut off the gas to states along the transit route without simultaneously threatening supplies to the Western European market.
The point often overlooked by German commentators is that Nordstream 2 will not actually bring much more gas into the German market itself. Instead, the gas will flow onward eastward via NS2’s connecting pipeline EUGAL to the Czech Republic and Poland.
The aim of this eastern flow of Nordstream gas is to flood the west to east interconnectors with Gazprom gas, effectively blocking access to the CEE gas market to its competitors. In addition, the surge of gas flows from Nordstream 2 will also undermine commercial incentives to develop alternative pipelines and new sources of supply across the CEE region.
In essence, what Gazprom seeks to do is lock the CEE states into a gas market dominated by Gazprom with no obvious way out. Western Europe, for its part, will still have a diversified supplied market. The CEE states will have a gas market largely dominated by Gazprom.

Trump-style Germany?

Astonishingly, in the raw pursuit of its national interests, almost Trump-style, Germany appears to be willing to undermine the supply security of its EU and NATO allies, as well as abandoning its European commitments to maintaining a single European market in energy.
Not surprisingly, the political cost to Germany from pushing through Nordstream 2 in terms of loss of influence, and distrust in capitals across Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic States is enormous.
However, within the Berlin bubble this undermining of German power and influence has not been noticed. The Berlin bubble even appears unaware of the direct threat to Germany’s own supply security that Nordstream 2 represents. If Nordstream 2 comes into operation, then the Brotherhood pipeline will see a collapse in gas flows transited across Ukraine.
The difficulty for Germany is that the remaining flows of gas transited via Ukraine will then be so small that much of the pipeline network through Ukraine will no longer be viable. Without significant gas flows, there is no economic justification for maintaining the pipeline network in working order. The network becomes worth little more than its scrap value.
If in addition the second string of Turkishstream across the Black Sea to Bulgaria or Greece is built, there will be almost no Russian gas flowing through Ukraine at all. It is hard to imagine that Chancellor Merkel would seriously want to subscribe to such a scheme.
Energy security consequences

The collapse of gas flows through Ukraine is of vital concern to Germany because of the knock-on energy security consequences. Germany would be going from having three different routes, two of which are land-based, bringing Russian gas to Germany to just two, only one of which is on land.
Riskier yet, one of those routes (Nordstream 1 & 2), runs through a narrow two kilometer channel in the shallow Baltic Sea. It will now be responsible for bringing three-quarters of those gas flows to the German shore along that one narrow vulnerable sea-borne route.
The threat to Germany here is not from any deliberate Russian gas cut off. It is the danger of creating a narrow choke of so much of Germany’s energy resource in a shallow sea,when the alternative safer land based Brotherhood supply route which Germany has relied upon goes out of commission.
After all, it is not difficult to imagine a ship’s anchor hitting the pipes; rupture by munitions explosion (the pipe runs through two World War Two munitions dumps) and terrorism.
Inside the Berlin bubble

By making light of all these concerns, Germany may be setting itself up for a perfect storm. It has sowed distrust among quite a few allies. That, in turn, will make it more difficult for Germany to find support for new EU policies or in any crisis.
Already, the Berlin bubble does not make the connection between resistance to refugee quotas and Nordstream 2. Beyond that issue, CEE capitals can credibly take the view that if EU law and policies are not to be applied uniformly and fairly in respect of the EU’s energy markets, they are not going to accept any further development of EU law that favors Germany.


At a minimum, they can argue that the German government always likes to talk of EU obligations clad in the law when its own interests are concerned. In the reverse case, Germany displays a very cavalier attitude about European law and the obligations that implies for Germany.


One counterargument that is often heard in the German debate is that all these arguments against Nordstream 2 are a cover for a U.S. attempt to control the European gas market.

However, as argued above, the questions raised about Nordstream in this article concern key strategic elements of German and European interests. They have nothing in common with U.S. interests, especially any U.S. grand design to wean the Europeans off Russian gas and/or get the continent hooked on U.S. LNG.
Assessing Europe’s strategic interests appropriately can be done without raising any specter of any made-by-Washington gas dependency. Furthermore, such a specter is fanciful in a world awash with natural gas from now over a dozen LNG sources, plus Algeria, Norway and of course Russia.



https://www.theglobalist.com/germany...uropean-union/

[Skybird]

As I repeatedly said , and linked to articles, Poland has its own desire to become a "gas hub" for Europe, and benefitting for it, it wants to create terminals for US tankers and then distribute their load via its own Polish pipeline project to Western Europe, milking the coins and having a hand on the valves.

Nord Stream 2 is not expected to become a major pipeline, more a fallback-to option, namely to bypass the notoriously unsafe Ukraine, that is an unreliable "partner". It cannot be allowed to have the Ukraine be left in that position where it could seriously interrupt the supply to Europe - and this already has happened repeately years ago when the Ukraine stole gas form the transit, did not pay its bills in Russia, and Russia therefore reducing the delivery volumes until the EU made the Ukraine paying its obligations.

The American claims are pretensions, for alibi, only. The fracking industry in the US has invested billions, produced a gas of inferior quality (high chemical intoxiocation levels due to the extraction process), it must therefore be cleaned by the customer again, and it takes a lot of additional energry to cool it down so that it actually can be shipped once it is in a liquified state. The American price demands last time I checked were 30-40% above global market prices for liquid gas. Meanwhile the prices have plummeted, causing havoc in the US fracking industry. The driving powers behind the bipartisan effort in America to force the Europeans to accept this very bad deal for them, were the Republican governors of two states where the industry is big and the investments were big as well and both were close Trump allies at that time when it started.


It is unacceptable that the Americans imply that they have the right to set the rules by which other sovereign nations must play ball to support American interests, andnthat they even threaten individuals with persecution, globally. In fact the bullying, black mailing and threatful behavior that America already practices right now is what they accuse the Russians of what they would maybe do if Europe would depend on them. The American deed is reality, the accusation of what the Russians would do, is just American prediction and US claim. Or better: fearmongering. The Russians have always honoured their business contracts with Western Europe - even at the very height of the cold war.

The American position is extremely transparent and their opportunistic egoism is obvious, and it has little to do with saving Europe from the blackmailing Russians. America wants to force europe to buy its inferior quality gas for overpriced costs, and it has nothing against European dependency in the energy market - as long as it is dependency from US deliveries, which would be ideal, from washington's standpoint.
Russia is the biggest single exporter of energy in Europe, yes, but the European energy market has been diversified over the past one and a half decade sufficiently that even a full stop of Russian deliveries could cause problems, but no threatening breakdown in Europe, and the diversification moves on, still, with renewables pushign more and more into the market. I have my own criticism regarding that, since Germany has neither Austrias nor Sweden's natural conditions to support renewables in an ideal way, but that is a different story.

Sorry, Rockstar, but after the past years not many are left over here who trust your country and its politics anymore. The US has lost that trustworthiness and credibility, and you have only yourself to blame for that. And despite all that handshaking and smiling that will go on between Europe and Biden, Biden will continue with America First, and most European nations will not trust you as much anymore. If we have learned one lesson from the past years, then this: that our bigger problem is not the Russians being unpredictable to us, they aren't, but America. Poland and the baltic states suppoort your stand, yes, the Poles for financial own interest because they want to have that position that Germany now is establishing as a future option for itsself, bypassing Poland, the Baltic states because they are closer located to Russia and they would like to have, despite their small size and strategic low relevance, a controlling finger on the pulse of lifejuice to the EU. And right that is the reason why Germany pushed Nord Stream 2 forward, to deny them this powerful position. We have a lot of political problems with the Polish state already now, and the confrontation between Brussels and Warzaw is obvious. You said the EU is all against the Germans. Well, the EU and the other member states nevertheless waved the project through, and single states who were directly concerned and involved nevertheless accepted the German position and denied Washington the resistance to it that Washington demanded them to show. Last were the Danish onece again,who send Pompeo home with empty hands when he travdelled there a few months ago and demanded them to not allow construction continuing in their waters.

You are not coming to our rescue when you save us from Nord Stream 2, Rockstar. You move for the rescue of your own suffering fracking industry, and we should bail you out of your losses. We did you a friends service, years ago already, however, we told you again and again that frakcing is no good idea, not economically, and not ecologically. You did not listen and knew it better. And there we are now. You with your selfmade problems, and we with the problems you raise to us. Thanks for that.



You are eying your own financial profits - that profane it is. The choice of methods however is completely unacceptable and illustrates an almost totalitarian claim for all world being under your command, and in the long run you will not have done yourself a favor with that arrogance. It will not be forgotten over here, and will increase the alienation between European nations and the US, and will make its influence felt in future designing of our relations to your nation, will even make us potentially moving closer to Russia. We are warned, after four years of Trump. You have not overcome our "stubborness", but you made us being more on our guard - against you. Congratulations again. Anti-americanism has always been present in Europe and in Germany, where many people traditonally are somewhat "closer" to Russia than to America (not that I defend that Russopohilia, I havew little illusioins about the Russian state'S interests), but in the past four years it has blossomed tremendously. You gave us plenty of good reasons for that.

Lets face it, the old post war order is dead and over, and egoism and comparisons of brute force will increasingly define relations between the blocks - even between the former allies Europe and America. Trump served as a fantasticc catalyst for this, accelerating it up to breathtaking speeds.

We have learned to be on the watch against you. Trump acchieved in four years what the French have tried for five decades to achieve. If that is not ironic - especially the French, mon dieux...


P.S. The only valid concern is that of the pipeline'S vulnerability to external phsical hazuards, like ship anchors and ammunition going off. But I have no trustworthy information myself that woudkl allow me to form an educated opinion on these risks, and I certainly would not believe information from sides having strong own interests in or against this project. Therefore, I leave this point completely uncommented.


P.P.S. Both the EU commission and the heads of EU states during a meeting, labelled the American blackmailing and threatening as a violation of international law, and explicitly brandmarked it as this, using no diplomatic language. The legal experts of the EU and the Bundestag both agreed in their assessment that that is what it is: a violation of international law.

[mapuc]

Regarding this The Nordstream 2

Today the Danish government and it's supporting parties has agreed on stopping all Danish oil production in the North Sea by 2050.

I have heard that Denmark will not have enough energy supply to supply the coming needs after 2050 even if we take development of renewable energy into consideration.

I believe Denmark will be one of the European countries who will as others European countries buy this gas.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Schröderization’s Finnish Roots
by Pekka Virkki


https://upnorth.eu/schroderizations-finnish-roots/



“We need a comprehensive, Mueller-style, EU-wide investigation into the extent of Russian influence on our democracies, economies and political systems, which can set out credible responses. It is wrong that Russian billionaires can buy EU citizenship in Malta, launder money in London propertythrough shell companies and seeminglydonate to European political parties at will.

At the same time we have to overcome the current stalemate where EU-Russia contacts are frozen, but member states continue developing bilateral channels with Russia, often serving narrow national interests. The EU and Nato need to reopen channels of communication to reduce the risk of misunderstandings and miscalculations – as was the case during the cold war...


We can always discuss how deeply involved one was and what kind of responsibility should he or she carry, but first of all, we must remember that collaboration with the current Moscow regime, means collaboration with a regime that is aggressively spreading anti-democratic and anti-Western message and goals all over the world.



(Lets be honest I dont even think Trump wanted to get this close. Ahhh the stench of hypocrisy)


Also, Since Germany is wholly dependent on other nations to supply them cleaner than coal energy. Unless Danish oil reserves dry up, I seriously doubt Denmark will be closing all of their oil fields. By the time 2050 rolls around such lofty goals will have been long forgotten. Because lets face it if Germany is to continue to influence and rule in Europe it must import the energy to survive.

Merkel sold Germany's soul to the devil when she made deals with Putin and Erdogan. She dropped trow and took a big hairy dump on Lativia, Estonia, Poland, and Ukraine. She is positioning Germany as the Europe's energy and economic leader and looking for Germany expand that leadership into defense as well.

My hats off too her though, I must admit she's good under her leadership Germany has done something that none of her predecessors have ever managed to do since the end of the Holy Roman Empire. The Chancellor has taken on the role of European leader without firing a shot.


You make a great mouthpiece for Putin. But good luck Germany, Europe, E.U. or whatever you call yourselves over there these days

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

[...] collaboration with a regime that is aggressively spreading anti-democratic and anti-Western message and goals all over the world."

Tell this to the US?

Germany is dependent on other nations energy-wise, yes, this is why it tries to get independent by introducing more renewable energy sources.
The politics of former chancellors like Schroeder are not Merkel's politics, but signed treaties you know .. ah i forgot this means nothing today in the US, and England
You think that a dependency energy-wise or else solely on the US is much better, especially under Trump?
Germany is trying to get independent from anyone,a nd while this is still a glint at the horizon it is better than marching on on old bad paths.

Denmark will close its oilfields i heard alright, but 2050 is far away.

Because lets face it if Germany is to continue to influence and rule in Europe it must import the energy to survive.

It still has to import energy, but it strives to become independent. And this has not much to do with "rule in Europe".

Abandoning nuclear reactors and switching off coal power plants trying to increase relying on renewable resources dos not look like trying to gain an inner-european hegemony or "rule" by giving up leverage on the energy market?
1. Positioning Germany as Europe's energy leader would look different.
2. Regarding your alleged "leadership in defense" i hate to admit it, but when it comes to military Germany sucks. Trump is perfectly right here.
3. Regarding economy Germany is still strong, it does not have to prove this every day. But it is also waning with China's rise, and Corona.

I do not care much what some EU members say about anything as long as those are Poland, Hungary and Romania. They are all on their way on a special dictatorship and disregard human rights and democracy. I'd say the sooner they leave the EU the better, but they will not: They want the EU's money. Which is the only reason they are still there. Maybe the EU should throw them out. Maybe they can form a "Dictator's in Europe and proud of it" pact.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Tell this to the US?

Germany is dependent on other nations energy-wise, yes, this is why it tries to get independent by introducing more renewable energy sources.
The politics of former chancellors like Schroeder are not Merkel's politics, but signed treaties you know .. ah i forgot this means nothing today in the US, and England

haha I posted Schroder and Putin because to this day they still have a very close relationship and its quite easy to find information from the past revealing because of Gerhard being close friends with old East German Secret police officers and Putin. That Merkel has Nordstream 1 and 2. Speaking of bad memories for just about four years now all I've heard was the worst thing on earth for a western leader to do was to be a friend of, make peace or deals with Putin. Now suddenly its OK?

You think that a dependency energy-wise or else solely on the US is much better, especially under Trump?
Germany is trying to get independent from anyone,a nd while this is still a glint at the horizon it is better than marching on on old bad paths.

I dont know about Trump. What I do know is without some miracle technology Germany can never be energy independent. Unless of course it starts building more nuclear power plants or goes into Ploesti again. But you still have choices and astonishingly Germany chose Putin.

I do not care much what some EU members say about anything as long as those are Poland, Hungary and Romania. They are all on their way on a special dictatorship and disregard human rights and democracy. I'd say the sooner they leave the EU the better, but they will not: They want the EU's money. Which is the only reason they are still there. Maybe the EU should throw them out. Maybe they can form a "Dictator's in Europe and proud of it" pact.

That's another thing I kept hearing how concerned I ought to be of what the world thinks of us. Guess we do have something in common after all because I dont care either. Oh and speaking of Dictators Putin said he's going to be increasing Russia's naval presence in the Baltic to guard their investment. But I suppose the United States Navy or Her Majesty's Royal Navy will have to guard you?


As for Poland I think they like others are beginning to see Germany/E.U. a royal pain in the arse. They want the E.U. out of their judicial system and are probably ready to leave the E.U. Your media demonizes Poland as a dictatorship. Yet 16 years ago in 2006 defence minister Sikorski said the Nord Stream project echoed the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, under which Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union carved up Poland at the start of World War II. But we'll be there to help Poland

The greatest environmental impact in connection with the pipeline results from the consumption of the transported gas, if it allows more imports to the EU. That would be in conflict with decarbonization efforts for climate protection. At a nominal capacity of 55 billion m3/a (1.9 trillion cu ft/a), each pipe pair can cause carbon emissions of 110 million tonnes CO2 each annually. Methane losses during extraction and transport need to be added.

Ethical issues

The former Chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schröder, and the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, were strong advocates of the pipeline project during the negotiation phase. International media alluded to a past relationship between the Managing Director of Nord Stream AG, Matthias Warnig, himself a former East German secret police officer, and Vladimir Putin when he was a KGB agent in East Germany. These allegations were denied by Matthias Warnig, who said that he had met Vladimir Putin for the first time in his life in 1991, when Putin was the head of the Committee for External Relations of the Saint Petersburg Mayor's Office.


The agreement to build the pipeline was signed ten days before the German parliamentary election. On 24 October 2005, a few weeks before Schröder had stepped down as Chancellor, the German government guaranteed to cover €1 billion of the Nord Stream project cost, should Gazprom default on a loan. However, this guarantee expired at the end of 2006 without ever having been needed.[153] Soon after leaving the post of Chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schröder agreed to head the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG. This has been widely described by German and international media as a conflict of interest,[154][155][156] the implication being that the pipeline project may have been pushed through for personal gain rather than for improving gas supplies to Germany. Information about the German government's guarantee was requested by the European Commission. No formal charges have been filed against any party despite years of exhaustive investigations.


In February 2009, the Swedish prosecutor's office started an investigation based on suspicions of bribery and corruption after a college on the island of Gotland received a donation from Nord Stream. The 5 million Swedish kronor (US$574,000) donation was directed to a professor at Gotland University College who had previously warned that the Nord Stream pipeline would come too close to a sensitive bird zone. The consortium has hired several former high-ranking officials, such as Ulrica Schenström, former undersecretary at the Swedish Prime Minister's office, and Dan Svanell, former press secretary for several politicians in the Swedish Social Democratic Party. In addition, the former Prime Minister of Finland, Paavo Lipponen, had worked for Nord Stream as an adviser since 2008.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

As for Poland I think they like others are beginning to see Germany/E.U. a royal pain in the arse. They want the E.U. out of their judicial system and are probably ready to leave the E.U.

Do not keep travellers from travelling.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

[...]
As for Poland I think they like others are beginning to see Germany/E.U. a royal pain in the arse. They want the E.U. out of their judicial system and are probably ready to leave the E.U. [...]

Oh god how i wish, and not alone because of the money .. for Poland's government i hope they leave, so maybe we can shoot Kaczinsky and his anti abortion police into the sun.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Do not keep travellers from travelling.

Is anyone making up the shortfall due to the lack UK contributions or are the slices of the cake to become thinner?