[REL] Harder Enemy Escorts- Better Sensors

[CCIP]

Bingo, it looks like the visual settings for the crew are changed as well. That could explain a few things!

I'm still not convinced by the underwater sensors though; I'm willing to write it off to bad Japanese ASW, but I'm still getting off quite easily. Maybe just luck?

Originally Posted by CCIP

Bingo, it looks like the visual settings for the crew are changed as well. That could explain a few things!

I'm still not convinced by the underwater sensors though; I'm willing to write it off to bad Japanese ASW, but I'm still getting off quite easily. Maybe just luck?

I agree with 'the Duce' . Dump the sensors.dat file that is included and see how it works. And I am working on a new version of this mod. Am getting better results so far.

[FAdmiral]

Let me know when your new version is ready. I have created some
missions with the editor just for the purpose of testing enemy ship AI
for correct detect, movement and attack situations....

JIM

[Ducimus]

I'm still not convinced by the underwater sensors though;

As the saying goes, those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it and all that. Don't forget what we learned in sh3 from all those countless hours of testing.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...33&postcount=2

Theres more i could add, but i have to have the whole file in front of me, and im probably preaching to the choir anyway.

[FAdmiral]

Here is a previous post when I tested using no mods:

I made my own mission from the editor for testing purposes in learning
more about how the enemy DDs work. In my first attempt, no mods,
there I was at PD with scope up watching a DD come within 288 (yards or meters?)
of me. Nothing, he didn't see me or detect me?? I sank the Seaplane Tender
he was escorting. All 4 DDs stopped and all I saw was blinking lights and a few
star shells fired. I waited, still doing 5 kts at PD with scope up. After about 10
minutes with nothing happening, I sank a Lt. Cruiser (1 torp was all it took).
Still nothing ?? The DDs didn't seem to know what to do. I was NOT detected
so I assume they were clueless on what action to take. I had set them all to
Veteran in the mission editor. This was on May 5, 1942 at 730 AM in the Coral Sea.
Sun was already up. Another time I tried to stay on the surface till seen and
then went under. This time they acted more like they should. They started
looking for me and dropped DCs in some areas but not close (I was at 200 ft.,
under thermal layer and silent running) At one time, one darted over the top
of me and I thought here it comes but he didn't drop. I was NOT detected.
As of now, I think DETECTION is the KEY element here. Without that, I don't
think the DDs know what to do !! I will continue further testing on this and
will use some of the mods that are supposed to increase DD agression...

I have not installed any mods yet to run the mission again & check for
different results. I will get to that tomorrow with nvdrifters mod

JIM

[Assertor]

So, Sir do you plan a new "mod" ? Or will you leave it with the first version?
I would be interested in an improved one.
Never the less thank you.

This is nice, they actually fight back a bit now.

Originally Posted by Assertor

So, Sir do you plan a new "mod" ? Or will you leave it with the first version?
I would be interested in an improved one.
Never the less thank you.

I plan on releasing a new version of this mod once it's ready.

[CCIP]

Good to hear!

Indeed I'm not getting detected underwater much. I've been playing for the whole evening, jousting with convoy escorts and patrols in the South China Sea, but so far the only times I've been spotted and/or hit were on the surface.

Gonna go over that nice read by Ducimius again to see what I can tweak in sim.cfg; the rest of this is up to you. I'm sure it's all just a matter of time in finding those right figures

Originally Posted by CCIP

Good to hear!

Indeed I'm not getting detected underwater much. I've been playing for the whole evening, jousting with convoy escorts and patrols in the South China Sea, but so far the only times I've been spotted and/or hit were on the surface.

Gonna go over that nice read by Ducimius again to see what I can tweak in sim.cfg; the rest of this is up to you. I'm sure it's all just a matter of time in finding those right figures

I am making hydrophones more sensitive and depth charge blast radius less. Should get a good effect, but still can possibly survive.

I am also now fixing the problem with ships sinking in storms.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by clayton

Got it! Cant seem to get off this damn soap box...

Nvdrifter, I played the first version of your mod and I did not notice any change with escorts detecting me. I will install your mod tonight and let you know. I also tried your aircraft mod and I did not notice any change between that and version 1.1. It seems that aircraft can detect you almost too easy in this game. I remember reading about Sub captains during the early war who remained submerged throughout daylight getting relieved because they had aircraft paranoia, but during a SH4 patrol, you have to remain submerged because the Jap aircraft act like allied aircraft during the Atlantic battles of 43 - 44! I guess I'm going to have to break out the Bible (Blair's book) and research just how effective their aircraft were. Did japanese aircraft have rader like their oppenents did?

I think all of this is funny! We had the excact opposite problem with SH2- the escorts always detected you and would always drop their depth charges right on the money.
Anyway, the Japanese had several problems with ASW.

1. Japanese depth-charges were too small (first part of the war).
2. Japanese didn't drop their depth-charges very deep <200 feet. (see reason above).
3. Japanese didn't take submarine warfare seriously. Their doctrine of fleet scouts vs anti commerance. (They paid dearly for this)


They did have good detection gear! (from Blair's book). Everybody needs to play SH1, those guys got it right I think. So you guys, keep on MODDING, you do great work . Is it possible to limit how deep they drop the DCs?

[kakemann]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

I am making hydrophones more sensitive and depth charge blast radius less. Should get a good effect, but still can possibly survive.

I am also now fixing the problem with ships sinking in storms.

Great, thanks a lot nvdrifter and the rest of you experienced guys!

I tried to drop the AIsensor.dat file from this package and have tested various missions, but it seems the destroyers act like the unmodded 1.1 game. They can hear, but not very good.

Could it be that the AIsensors file is the "magic file"?

Originally Posted by kakemann

Great, thanks a lot nvdrifter and the rest of you experienced guys!

I tried to drop the AIsensor.dat file from this package and have tested various missions, but it seems the destroyers act like the unmodded 1.1 game. They can hear, but not very good.

Could it be that the AIsensors file is the "magic file"?

The biggest factor is the sim.cfg

[Der Graf Von Rudklide]

What is the historical facts ?
Its known that the Japs did not make much of radar until later in the war.

What was the range and how efficent was it ?
How many destroyers and ships used for escort had radar ?
How many subs where sunk by jap escorts compared to thier ASW tactics from 1941 to 45 ?

Going into details, how much ammo did the jap escorts and subhunters use from 1941 -45 compared to thier sinking of subs ?
Weather, time of the day, the look outs position and the chance to spot a sub with the sun in the eyes there is plenty of things to consider.

Using these informations shut make an fairly accurate gameplay in altering enemie behaviour.

Originally Posted by Der Graf Von Rudklide

What is the historical facts ?
Its known that the Japs did not make much of radar until later in the war.

What was the range and how efficent was it ?
How many destroyers and ships used for escort had radar ?
How many subs where sunk by jap escorts compared to thier ASW tactics from 1941 to 45 ?

Going into details, how much ammo did the jap escorts and subhunters use from 1941 -45 compared to thier sinking of subs ?
Weather, time of the day, the look outs position and the chance to spot a sub with the sun in the eyes there is plenty of things to consider.

Using these informations shut make an fairly accurate gameplay in altering enemie behaviour.

The different sensors for each year are already modelled into SH4.

Yes, few US subs were sunk by Japanese escorts. But most US sub commanders were much more cautious than SH4 players are.