REL: Extended FreeCam 1.0

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by JMV

Hello Stoemfly ,

DL your file. I must say it's superb. It really adds a new dimension to the game !

However, I have a small problem :

1 ) When I activate <F2> I get in the Control room ok, I can go forward or back with <Num Pad 8-2>, turn left or right with <Num Pad 4-6>, but I'm about 1 or 1.5 meter high above the ground , so I wanted to raise myself a bit with <Num Pad 7> but it has no effect at all, as well as <Num Pad 2> if I want t go lower. Is this normal ?
This happens to when I go to <F4> and go around. And in that case, I tried <Num Pad 7 or 1> and I suddently found myself in cam view in the "Kiosque" ???

2 ) Now for this one, may be I did a wrong move ? : I enter the hydrophone room with a left click of the mouse, then I don't quite remember how I got there, but suddently I found myself with the cam headed toward the ceiling or if I thy turning the camera, looking at the sonarman from above, as if the camera axis had changed...
I had to leave it that way, because I was unable to turn in such a way that I could see the way out...
So, to enter = mouse left click
What do you do to to go out of the Hydrophone room ? Is it well <Num Pad 0> or <End> ? Do I get back to the Control room that way ?
When I am in cam view in the Hydrophone room can I type <H> to sit at the Hydrophone ? If NO = How. If = YES, how do I get back to the Hydrophone room in cam view ?

And, I don't quite get this part of the Readme :

"- Keyboard layout changed, Key 0 on numeric pad or Key "End" is for going back to a fitting station (exaple you want to leave the 2D map view, you will return to the view where you have opened it) . Different new "go back`s" added, new key "Num /" or "POS1" now weapons officer -> identify target, new key "NUM *" or "Pause" now weapons officer -> create solution to target."

Thank you in advance, and very sorry for the disturbance, it's a very nice mod anyway.

Hello JMV,

1: Right, the most benefit is also to know how to use the cam. If in a 3D-view, i just point your view in the direction you want to go, using the mouse, while moving using the arrow keys left of the numeric pad. That allow you to move in every direction you like to. Dont turn your view with the keyboard, only use the mouse. Only move with that dedicated arrow keys left of the num pad. If you wont have those keys, bacause you are using a notebook, you could try to use the numpad arrow keys but pressing the Num-Lock key first, to disable Num-Lock. In Multiplayer, you shold know, pressing the Num-Lock key also opens the multiplayer chatline, close it again with enter.

2: Entering the Radio or Sonar station is possible by left clicking on the 3D radio or sonar man, you can also use the 2D icons by right clicking the icons. If you want to leave such a station you can do it always with the "End" Key, the "NUM 0" only works if "Num-Lock" is activated. After you have exited the radio or sonar station, the cam is positioned in a way like you have just stand up from that place, just turn the cam to that direction you want to go next using the mouse, by moving again with the arrow keys.

Also, if you are in a high dive or surface angle, it could be that exiting those stations will drag you out of sectors sometimes, or your simply not able to reach the areas infront or behind the central position, but this could also happen on a real sub

[JMV]

Thank you so much for your explanations, Stormfly
Believe it or not I did'nt know you could use the mouse for free viewing
I will try again when I load the game.
So, if I understand well <Num Pad 7 and 1> are of no use if I want to rise above the floor ( altitude ). I don't see how you do that with the mouse, but I will try.

Thanks again.

[karamazovnew]

Stormfly, thanks again for this mod it allowed me to finnaly understand how the free camera works and why the GWX team decided not to use one . The camera is affected by 2 things. First, the shocks controller (which unfortunately doesn't work right for external cameras) but that didn't explain why I felt moving to a weird pivot in the center of the sub. So I went into the xxx_CR.dat files and found the problem. The cameras are parented to a central node. That node acts as a circular TRIM dial. As the angle of the sub is changed, the TRIM dial reacts with the same magnitude (btw, sideways angles are not linked to the trim dial, only the longitudinal one). While this looks good as long as the camera is near that trim node, it goes through walls as you go far from it. So I've tried turning the camera itself into a trim dial. But again I've hit a problem. As the free cam moves away from it's usual position, it doesn't bring the node from the xxx_CR.dat file with it . So there's only one way to stabilise the camera, delete the TRIM dial from the camera group parent. That will make the cameras way more stable.

[Stormfly]

nice, sounds good !

...ive not to much time in the moment, would be nice if you could send me your stabilazed version

[karamazovnew]

Done, OMG it works great! I've only modified the free command room camera for the Type7. Here's how.

I've removed the Trim dial linked to the camera group parent (just delete the selected node):



But then I had to rethink the cameras.dat file. Here's a picture of how it looks now, I'll explain bit by bit.




You see, the camera that you actually SEE is the last Dummy_Cam node, _Dummy_Cam_InteriorFore2. You had the FreeMove linked to it so, as you moved that node, you saw through the moving cam. BUT, the MechShocks was placed above that node, in a differnent node that did not move. In other words, the pivot of the rotation stayed behind. Even with the trim dial removed, you still had weird movement. I had to reposition the nodes, remove their offset and also delete the RotationSpring node. As it is now, it works like a charm, the camera pivots on it's center, not the center of the sub, and you can see both waves action and diving angles In other words, all that you loose is the annoying vertical movement of the camera that makes you go through the roof and ceiling in the radio room.

Here's the modified files. BTW, this file is only for you Stormfly, others please don't use it, allow Stormfly to adapt it to all of the subs in his mod.
http://www.filefront.com/14393517/For_Stormfly_Only.zip

I can't wait to see what you can do with this. By the way, maybe you can do something about the Conning Deck Camera, I'd love to see the same movement as in the interior. It would look amazing standing on the bridge with a stabilised cam.

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Done, OMG it works great!

Thanks, sounds excelent !

...this is community work, all are welcome to contribute

[Stormfly]

ok, i looked into that... yes the cam is stable now, but you loose the interrior diving angles, they are still present (but reduced) if you look to bow direction. The problem is, if you turn your head to the stern or side, the movement of the sub goes into the same direction. I noticed, if you turn the view to the bottom, your entire torso is moving, like the center of rotation moved down, this is nice !

[karamazovnew]

You don't loose the interior diving angles. Previously you had them doubled (shocks+trim dial), before moving from the initial position, and they transformed into an up down movement as you moved away from the initial position. Go to the back of the sub and keep the camera pointed at an officer's head. Order a dive and then an emergency surface. You'll see that it moves very well by a realistic number of degrees. SUre beats the hell out of going through the ceiling .

[JMV]

Very good guys, thank you for the explanations. We'll wait to see what stormfly can do with the file you gave him Karamazovnew.

For me, all that is a bit like trying to understand Hebrew. I certainly coul'nt understand what triggers what, and have it fixed by myself .
Is there is the slight chance of reenabling commands <Num 7-1> that would be nice, but no hard feelings if It's impossible.
Thank you anyway both.

[Cheapskate]

Originally Posted by JMV

Very good guys, thank you for the explanations. We'll wait to see what stormfly can do with the file you gave him Karamazovnew.

For me, all that is a bit like trying to understand Hebrew. I certainly coul'nt understand what triggers what, and have it fixed by myself .
Is there is the slight chance of reenabling commands <Num 7-1> that would be nice, but no hard feelings if It's impossible.
Thank you anyway both.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what comes out of Stormfly's and KMnew's collaboration.

The longitudinal instability (particularly in the RR) was my only major concern with this mod. Even in the calm water of the Navigational training mission I was being thrown in and out of the superstructure when surfaced. Underwater the movement feels slightly exaggerated but not unbearably so.

The CT camera is also unstable but again, only when surfaced.

Can't say that I noticed anything untoward with the conning deck camera. The movement up there seems entirely reasonable IMO.

Must say I can't see the point of using the numpad keys to get around. I tried this method of control when I saw your first post and nearly tied my fingers in knots! Yes, it is possible (using keys 9 and 3 for up/down) but it is horrendously difficult. Fearing the onset of RSI in the short term and maybe arthritis later in life, I decided not to practice and see if I could get used to it.

I'll settle for the mouse + up arrow key any day of the week!

All in all, I think Stormy's control system is near perfect. The Go-Backs work wonderfully well. Just using the mouse on the slideout station panel plus the officer icons and the normal dials it seems possible do nearly everything necessary to control the boat systems and communicate with the crew. To test this I managed to complete (and pass) the whole Navigational training mission while laying on the Captain's bunk . Bit of an extreme thing to do I know, but it does demonstrate the absence of any real failings with Stormfly's key commands.

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

You don't loose the interior diving angles. Previously you had them doubled (shocks+trim dial), before moving from the initial position, and they transformed into an up down movement as you moved away from the initial position. Go to the back of the sub and keep the camera pointed at an officer's head. Order a dive and then an emergency surface. You'll see that it moves very well by a realistic number of degrees. SUre beats the hell out of going through the ceiling .

...do a test please, go to the radio room using the free cam, look at the weapons officer and dive, you will see that the diving angles turn in the wrong direction. it only works correct, if your view is directed to the bow.

If it`s working correct, i did something wrong with your files...

[JMV]

Must have missed something. I don't get it sorry. !
Cannot you raise from the ground and vice versa, without having to go forward up or down, or downward up or down ?

[Cheapskate]

Originally Posted by JMV

Must have missed something. I don't get it sorry. !
Cannot you raise from the ground and vice versa, without having to go forward up or down, or downward up or down ?

Not with the keyboard it seems.

But just try using the mouse to look round and steer. The up-arrow key is the only one you need to move.

With this combination you can spin on a sixpence and simply turn round and walk back once you have reached your destination.

[JMV]

So in F2 I'm just 1 or 1.5 meter high.
No way to look at anybody from the crew higher than his belt ???

[Cheapskate]

Just push mouse forward to look up. Use up-arrow to rise. Move mouse back slightly to level out. Then away you go. You can be any height you want to be!

Edit: Just realised: I've made these movements sound as they are completely separate from one another. They don't have to be ...the key press and mouse movements can be simultaneous, giving a more realistic impression of walking or climbing.