My 688 must have a squeek

Tinman764 · 06-19-17, 04:49 AM

It seems that no matter what I do, I can't stop enemy subs detecting my 688 and getting a good solution on me.

My normal missions run thus:

I start at battlestations, I don't close distance.
I go to silent running and beam the contact to try and get a quicker solution.
They normally go active at this point but this doesn't seem to improve my solution.
We end up shooting at each other at the same time and I spend the next 15 minutes dodging active torps.

Now, I've read Red Storm Rising - I want to kill subs without them knowing I was there! How do you do it?

PL_Harpoon · 06-19-17, 05:25 AM

What's your speed at the start of the engagement?

Tinman764 · 06-19-17, 05:56 AM

I try to start at 5 or 10knts.

I noticed something else - I was hovering just below a very strong layer just now hunting an Alpha who was also below the layer.

We fired, I bumped up through the layer expecting the Alpha and his torps to lose contact with me. Nope, they ploughed straight through into me.

06-19-17, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman764

I try to start at 5 or 10knts.

I noticed something else - I was hovering just below a very strong layer just now hunting an Alpha who was also below the layer.

We fired, I bumped up through the layer expecting the Alpha and his torps to lose contact with me. Nope, they ploughed straight through into me.

At what distance?
And how fast where you doing this?
A layer is no magic shield that protects you all the time, but it sure can help.

I agree though, the enemy always finds you even if you do your utmost to prevent this - and that really has to change.

Tinman764 · 06-19-17, 06:57 AM

Yep, I always keep the speed set to 1/3rd when I'm trying to build a solution and I picked up his torps a long way out - it's possible that they might have been ship or air dropped from something I didn't pick up, I guess. In which case putting myself above the layer would have only made things worse.

FPSchazly · 06-19-17, 07:17 AM

At 1/3rd, you have a pretty low bearing rate so it will take longer to build a solution. You have to keep a watch for the contact's ability to hear you in the signatures screen. If their sensors are below 10 dB, you can go faster and they won't pick you up. It is possible there are airplanes or helos nearby that are seeing you.

To quote ramjb here, to be stealthy doesn't mean being slow:

PL_Harpoon · 06-19-17, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

At what distance?
And how fast where you doing this?
A layer is no magic shield that protects you all the time, but it sure can help.

I agree though, the enemy always finds you even if you do your utmost to prevent this - and that really has to change.

It's strange cause I don't have that experience at all.
I believe that at the start of the engagement, if you don't choose to close in the game will put you at a distance at which either you can detect them or they can detect you. So if the sea is really noisy you can start the engagement inside their active sonar range. But in perfect conditions you can start as far as 30 KYDS(@devs - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here)

Tinman764 · 06-19-17, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

It's strange cause I don't have that experience at all.
I believe that at the start of the engagement, if you don't choose to close in the game will put you at a distance at which either you can detect them or they can detect you. So if the sea is really noisy you can start the engagement inside their active sonar range. But in perfect conditions you can start as far as 30 KYDS(@devs - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here)

There is an option to change the games distance scale from 1/2 (the default) to 1/1. I had changed this and was getting picked up on the enemy active as soon as I started each time.
I've changed this back to the default and it is exactly how you describe - much more managable.

I'm pretty sure this is a bug.

VizlaN · 06-19-17, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman764

We fired, I bumped up through the layer expecting the Alpha and his torps to lose contact with me. Nope, they ploughed straight through into me.

After the AI has a solution and fired at you, it knows exactly where you are no matter what you do. Devs are aware of it, but will probably take some time to do what I assume will be a full rework to an AI that does not cheat. Same goes for surface vessels.
For now, be aware they do not properly adjust for depth, so if you have the option go deep if he is shallow and vice versa, and they are not good at properly setting activation range(viable strategy is to for instance go deep and turn towards the torpedo so it activates past you).

Tinman764 · 06-19-17, 08:28 AM

I just made a seperate post, I think I've discovered a bug with the distance scale option.

Basically, if you have the distance scale set to 1/1 then as soon as you start the mission it seem that any active sonar immediately detects you with a score over 10. If you leave the distance scale alone at 1/2 then any active sonar starts with a score below 0.

Julhelm · 06-19-17, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VizlaN

After the AI has a solution and fired at you, it knows exactly where you are no matter what you do. Devs are aware of it, but will probably take some time to do what I assume will be a full rework to an AI that does not cheat. Same goes for surface vessels.
For now, be aware they do not properly adjust for depth, so if you have the option go deep if he is shallow and vice versa, and they are not good at properly setting activation range(viable strategy is to for instance go deep and turn towards the torpedo so it activates past you).

That's not true. The reason they know where you are is because they keep pinging you, updating your position. So if you can escape their active range they will lose you. The main problem is that submarines seem to share information when they should not.

PL_Harpoon · 06-19-17, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

The main problem is that submarines seem to share information when they should not.

I assumed they're using some kind of underwater telephone for that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_telephone)

VizlaN · 06-19-17, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

That's not true. The reason they know where you are is because they keep pinging you, updating your position. So if you can escape their active range they will lose you. The main problem is that submarines seem to share information when they should not.

What is the explanation for the behavior I linked you in the video last week, vs one sub that had -20 on SNS COMP active/-30 passive and torpedo still tracking perfectly? For reference:

You said you would pass it on to the programmer, was that not done or was what you just said what came back even tho the video shows only one sub?

06-19-17, 04:49 AM	#1
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	My 688 must have a squeek It seems that no matter what I do, I can't stop enemy subs detecting my 688 and getting a good solution on me. My normal missions run thus: I start at battlestations, I don't close distance. I go to silent running and beam the contact to try and get a quicker solution. They normally go active at this point but this doesn't seem to improve my solution. We end up shooting at each other at the same time and I spend the next 15 minutes dodging active torps. Now, I've read Red Storm Rising - I want to kill subs without them knowing I was there! How do you do it?

06-19-17, 07:17 AM	#6
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 771 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	At 1/3rd, you have a pretty low bearing rate so it will take longer to build a solution. You have to keep a watch for the contact's ability to hear you in the signatures screen. If their sensors are below 10 dB, you can go faster and they won't pick you up. It is possible there are airplanes or helos nearby that are seeing you. To quote ramjb here, to be stealthy doesn't mean being slow: __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

06-19-17, 05:25 AM	#2
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	What's your speed at the start of the engagement?

06-19-17, 05:56 AM	#3
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	I try to start at 5 or 10knts. I noticed something else - I was hovering just below a very strong layer just now hunting an Alpha who was also below the layer. We fired, I bumped up through the layer expecting the Alpha and his torps to lose contact with me. Nope, they ploughed straight through into me.

06-19-17, 06:57 AM	#5
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	Yep, I always keep the speed set to 1/3rd when I'm trying to build a solution and I picked up his torps a long way out - it's possible that they might have been ship or air dropped from something I didn't pick up, I guess. In which case putting myself above the layer would have only made things worse.

06-19-17, 08:28 AM	#10
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	I just made a seperate post, I think I've discovered a bug with the distance scale option. Basically, if you have the distance scale set to 1/1 then as soon as you start the mission it seem that any active sonar immediately detects you with a score over 10. If you leave the distance scale alone at 1/2 then any active sonar starts with a score below 0.