Nature repairs when Humans are not around

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The universe does not take risks, nor does it decide. It is.

From a universe point of view, it will hardly be taken note of by anyone ever.

The universe is not aware that it exists. This is one of the human species most noteable charateristics. We are aware of our existence and make a feeble attempt to explain it. We know our past and are charting our future. Until we come in contact with a similar species, we are, to our knowledge, the crowning achievement of the evolutionary process.

Humans tend to be moralistic but the universe has no morals. And we should treat it as such.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I doubt we last 170 mio years, also the successors of the dinosaurs are still among us, and i do not mean your democrat reptilian overlords

Lol, well i'm betting that our species not only survives a couple hundred million years but by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe.



Human are number one!

[skidman]

Originally Posted by u crank

Until we come in contact with a similar species, we are, to our knowledge, the crowning achievement of the evolutionary process.

Nope. Evolution doesn't produce achievements, that perspective is completely wrong. The process of "making copies" that are slightly different from the last copy uses different kinds of replication machines, that is, different kind of phenotypes. If you wanted to classify these machines (which is a very anthropocentric and limited approach) in terms of fitness (the term Darwin used, because he knew nothing about genes and their selfishness) the only reasonable feature usable for classification is how long they have been part of the process.

"A monkey is a machine that preserves genes up trees, a fish is a machine that preserves genes in the water; there is even a small worm that preserves genes in German beer mats. DNA works in mysterious ways.”
Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene"

[u crank]

Originally Posted by skidman

Nope. Evolution doesn't produce achievements, that perspective is completely wrong.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not a scientist, but it would seem to me that the natural evolutionary process of the human species ended a long time ago. Unlike all the other forms of life on this planet we are directing (for better or worse) our own future. Once that started we began an evolution not solely directed by the former process that we and all other species have been subject to. Maybe achievment is the wrong word. Perhaps 'development' would be better suited to describe that fact.

[mapuc]

Evolution

I believe it's not in its nature to overcome itself, but to improve its creation.

Like us human...in the beginning we were like apes and today with hundreds of mutation have developed and are now Homo Sapiens Sapiens(I think it is)

The question then is

Why haven't the evolution done the same with other animals ?

Now you may say
Look at some art of our monkeys-they have learned to use tools.

Is it because of a mutation in their genes or is it something
they have learned ?

August wrote
" by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe."

No doubt we one day will master such a thing.

I think however this is something that first will come true hundreds of years from now.

If mother nature/evolution decide to erase us from this planet, long before this can be done, then we are truly doomed.

I have hope we will survive as species

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I doubt we last 170 mio years, also the successors of the dinosaurs are still among us, and i do not mean your democrat reptilian overlords

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not a scientist, but it would seem to me that the natural evolutionary process of the human species ended a long time ago.

No, such processes may slow down (sharks for exmaple), but if such process ever comes to an end, the species has gone extinct. It would mean that the surrounding variables have come to an end and do not change anymore, and that is practically unimaginable. These variables, too, if they would appear to not change anymore, would have stopped to exist.



Heraklit: Panta rei! Even mountains, ocean seabeds, continents.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Germans have nothing to laugh about when it comes to submitting to tyrants.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Evolution

I believe it's not in its nature to overcome itself, but to improve its creation.

Like us human...in the beginning we were like apes and today with hundreds of mutation have developed and are now Homo Sapiens Sapiens(I think it is)

The question then is

Why haven't the evolution done the same with other animals ?

Now you may say
Look at some art of our monkeys-they have learned to use tools.

Is it because of a mutation in their genes or is it something
they have learned ?

August wrote
" by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe."

No doubt we one day will master such a thing.

I think however this is something that first will come true hundreds of years from now.

If mother nature/evolution decide to erase us from this planet, long before this can be done, then we are truly doomed.

I have hope we will survive as species

Markus

Evolution does not create anything. Its just a model for us poor handicapped unimaginery brain dwarfs by which we create a system with places in it to which we appoint our own subjective observations - hopefully as best as we could to help us mastering our future challenges better than without this system project, and that is what we call science. If we sort them according to our wishes or preset worldviews, then it is called ideology or religion instead.


So, evoltuion does not exist and does not create. It is just a name for our own sorting work trying to make sense of what we see. A model. But the map of a city is neither the city nor the greater world it is build in. And it is up to us to decide what we paint into that plan and what not, and we never know whether our knowledge about the city is complete and so whether or not our plan is complete. We just try to make sens eof it all. But it is our brain'S wheelchair, not a existing entity in itself.

[mapuc]

^ What would you call our development from Neanderthal to what we are today

Isn't it some kind of evolution

From Danish Wiki

Evolution is a process whereby the composition of inheritance in a population changes over generations. [1] Evolutionary processes give rise to the diversity of life at all levels of biological organization, including the level of species, individual organisms, and the level of molecular evolution.

Is there another word who should be used instead of this evolution ?

Markus

[Skybird]

All I wanted to indicate, mapuc, is that "Evolution" is nothing in itself, no seperate "something", with own existenmce. It has no9 goal, no intention, no self-existence, its just a name that we have invented for a way in whcih we sort our obersvations into an order that we have invented. Granted, I agree that this order we sort observations into makes prgamatic sense for our purpoises - but that is our intellect'S puüprioses only, and nobody and nothing else beyoind our own human intellect has even a clue on that thgere are some lifeforms who invented a word and attached it to the way the world around is going.


In this understanding, "evolution" does not exist. And thus it has no self-made creation, no in etion, no goal, no origin. Its our own mind chasing shadows in an attempt to allow us making us masters of our future fate by controll8ing the nevriuonem,nt we need to loie in better. Its like the rules for agme that we have invented, say "Monopoly". There is no "Monopoly" out there, it doe snto exist. Its a set of rules we have invehted to sort social itneraciton in a systamtical way that we call a "game". It has no exiostenc ebeyiond our agreement on these rules. And still, although it just is a fata morgana, a fiction, it still allows us to enjoy each other during the match (or not, this game can call grim emotions into life...).


The word for a thing is not the thing itself. The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon. Evolution is just a word with a menaign wer have invented - the real world sand i8ts ever-.changing dance is somethign different. And still our little brain trick allows us to make sense of it in an improved way so that we can form conceots and underdstandsiugnsd by which we hope to manipulate our living cionditioons and future fates to our advantage.


Science never describes absolute, tota, final truths or realities - to do that, it would need to be disconnected from the context of the universe which it reflects over, it would need to be not a part of the universe. But it is. The claims it raises, are always temporary. They last as long only as nobody shows up with better ways of explaining what we see and experience.


I say all this only becasue of your opening "evolution improving its creration". There is no creation by anyone, there is no intention to improve, there is no origin known to all this existence, and no holder of the experiene and no owner of the creation.


There is just the process. The dance.

[Catfish]

Evolution is blind in a way that it is not directed into a certain direction. It can have positive or negative results.

So e.g. the genetical change of blood cells over generations to higher concentrations of sickle cells can have positive or negative results, depending in which environment you live. While it generally reduces life expectancy, it also helps against Malaria and dying of it in the short run.

New research has shown that some genetical changes can indeed happen during the life of an organism, not in the way Lamarque had described it, but in a more restricted way. This will be interesting, especially in the appropriate biological warfare labs of certain beloved governments.

[mapuc]

There's one thing I have discovered when it comes to us human

We have very high thoughts about our self.
Nothing wrong with a dosis confidence now and then.

But I get the feeling that people think if we should be extinct - Nature will collapse.

Markus

[Platapus]

When it comes to the planet, humans are certainly non-essential

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No, such processes may slow down (sharks for exmaple), but if such process ever comes to an end, the species has gone extinct. It would mean that the surrounding variables have come to an end and do not change anymore, and that is practically unimaginable. These variables, too, if they would appear to not change anymore, would have stopped to exist.

I'm sorry but I am not doing a very good job of explaining my point of view. And you are right, evolution does not stop. The point I am trying to make is that the human species has moved to a point of evolution/development that no other species has. We are aware of who we are and how we got to this point and we are now actively taking part in our own evolution/development.