[WIP] Lighthouses mod

[gap]

Originally Posted by MLF

Hello - you 2 have been making good progress I've just checked on my iPad

Thank you MLF, we missed you

Originally Posted by MLF

I should be in a position to test the latest version tomorrow with a bit of luck, but I can't say when.

No hurry

Originally Posted by MLF

Anything specific you would like tested?

Yes, Kendras is dealing with damage modelling now, but due to his poor gfx card he cannot be sure about visual stuff. You should keep an eye on:

- Water reflections: I have applied the Min and MaxVisDis settings you had suggested, and I would like to know if reflections look okay now.

- Caustics: I have added caustics to the lighrhouse base and during one of his tests Kendras reported seeing them, but only underwater. I have adjusted controller's parameters, and I would like to know if caustics look okay now.

- Specular reflections on the model: as you probably have read already, in the latest version I have added relfection controllers to most materials used on the model and on its subparts. How do they look in game?

- One last thing: tle latest versions of the mod have restored light effect in its original configuration, i.e. halo FX on, but eithout water reflections. Thatis due to the two controller crashing the game when working together, as you and Kendras have reported. In v. 8 I have included a copy of the FX file without halo but with water reflections. Could you tell us:
a. if witha that file enbaled in place of the standard one, water reflections work
b. what is more desiderable/better looking among halo lights, or lights casting light on water?

Originally Posted by MLF

I can't believe you are doing all this without an installation - remarkable

I am long used to that. I rarely run SHIV and 5, even if I have them installed on my system and working. I have a copy of SHIII + GWX on the hard disk of an old laptop that I use now as an external data storage disc. I cannot play the game from it obviously, but I can look into its files. I can figure out many things from them, but I couldn't have progressed to that point without your and Kendra's precious work

Good news :

- the beacon can take damage now
- it's destroyable as expected


Bad news :

- when the lantern or the platform is destroyed, the halo is still lightning over the beacon
- the specular maps don't work, the beacon is quite black :

 

Question :

- how can you determine so precise values for damage zones ?


Notes :

If the platform is destroyed, the lantern and top mark are still visible, so :

- I have moved the Y02 as child node of the platform
- Y03 transformed into a child placement node of the platform

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

Good news :

- the beacon can take damage now
- it's destroyable as expected

What happend when it is destroyed? It simply disappears from game or what else?

Originally Posted by Kendras

- when the lantern or the platform is destroyed, the halo is still lightning over the beacon

That's odd. I expected the lantern not to disappear from game when its platform is destroyed: that happens becasue lplatform and lantern have no relationship (I might have a better fix than the one you have devised, I will post a patch for that shortly), but the light effect is tied to the lantern through placement node, so detsroying the lantern should definitely destroy the FX attached to it

Originally Posted by Kendras

- the specular maps don't work, the beacon is quite black

Okay, I am sure there is a fix for that too. Let's wait for MLF's report first.

Originally Posted by Kendras

- how can you determine so precise values for damage zones ?

s3d damage editor. You access it from a button with 3d cubes on it, near the texture rendering buttons in model preview interface-

Originally Posted by Kendras

- I have moved the Y02 as child node of the platform
- Y03 transformed into a child placement node of the platform

Do you mean you set Y02 as a child node of Y01, or as child of the platform equipment in library file? As I said before, I might have a better soluce. If spossible, I would like those nodes to be indipendent and fully configurable...

[gap]

@ Kendras

Please, enabled this patch on top of alpha v 11 without your node changes, and tell me if now lantern and topmark are destroyed when the platform is destroyed:

https://www.mediafire.com/?szcdtoxxs1401qc

Should the light still shine when the group of equipments is destroyed, try removing the RayTraceHalo controller from the light FX. I am under the feeling that this controller causes more problems than else

Originally Posted by gap

s3d damage editor. You access it from a button with 3d cubes on it, near the texture rendering buttons in model preview interface-

I knew that. I mean how you give so precise values, with 6 decimal digits ?

Originally Posted by gap

Do you mean you set Y02 as a child node of Y01, or as child of the platform equipment in library file?

as child of the platform equipment in library file.

More answers tomorrow, I need to sleep, and night gives advices.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

I knew that. I mean how you give so precise values, with 6 decimal digits ?

Vertex coordinates in Wings3D

Originally Posted by Kendras

as child of the platform equipment in library file.

Okay, if that works, it could be a good solution also for the topmark, but let's test the patch I have posted a few minute ago first

Originally Posted by Kendras

More answers tomorrow, I need to sleep, and night gives advices.

[gap]

Tonight is too hot and there are too many mosquitos in the room, can't sleep

Anyway, while at bed I was considering the reflect map corruption problem. The next information I need from you is wether rock's texture is similarly corrupted or not. Moreover, there is a set of tests you could do for us:

1. resize LH_LaPlate.tga to 512x512 pixels saving it as a 32 bits/pixel tga, no compression;
   
   if that doesn't fix the problem,
   
   
2. embed the resized LH_LaPlate.tga to the first material in LLH_LaPlate.dat;
   
   if that doesn't make any difference,
   
   
3. rename the labels of the two materials in LH_LaPlate.tga to whatever you want, LaPlate_Concrete1 and LaPlate_Metal1 for example;
   
   if that doesn't work either,
   
   
4. tomorrow we will think about something else!

gap off

[MLF]

Hi gap,Kendras.


Here are my findings:-

Originally Posted by gap

.

- Water reflections: I have applied the Min and MaxVisDis settings you had suggested, and I would like to know if reflections look okay now.

The reflections look good, apart from the light (halo) missing - that doesn't look right IMO. See screenshot 1

Originally Posted by gap

- Caustics: I have added caustics to the lighrhouse base and during one of his tests Kendras reported seeing them, but only underwater. I have adjusted controller's parameters, and I would like to know if caustics look okay now.

I believe caustics are the reflection of light from 1 surface to another. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caustic_(optics)

I would therefore expect to see light being reflected from the sea on to the lighthouse which I don't I'm afraid. However the light/shade does change when the sun moves around the tower. (See screenshot 2 and 3)

Originally Posted by gap

- Specular reflections on the model: as you probably have read already, in the latest version I have added relfection controllers to most materials used on the model and on its subparts. How do they look in game?

As Kendras reports, the model was black with speckles. I deleted the alpha channel and the light was rendered correctly but possibly specular reflections isn't working?

Originally Posted by gap

- One last thing: tle latest versions of the mod have restored light effect in its original configuration, i.e. halo FX on, but eithout water reflections. Thatis due to the two controller crashing the game when working together, as you and Kendras have reported. In v. 8 I have included a copy of the FX file without halo but with water reflections. Could you tell us:
a. if witha that file enbaled in place of the standard one, water reflections work
b. what is more desiderable/better looking among halo lights, or lights casting light on water?

I believe the reflection of the light on the water is more desirable as you have to be very close to the light to see the line under the platform which is still there. (See screenshot 4)

I also noticed a gap (not you) appearing between the tower and the base/rock as the sea level rises and falls – IMO not critical as underwater (See screenshots 5&6)

Chart Icon is much much better. (Screenshot 7)

Rock and tower both collisionable (Screenshots 8 & 9)

As reported by Kendras, after shooting away the light – halo and top mark still exist. (Screenshot 10)


Hope this helps

Out for most of day, so won't be able to test.

Regards,

MLF

Originally Posted by gap

What happend when it is destroyed? It simply disappears from game or what else?

The tower falls down, and then disappears.

Originally Posted by gap

The next information I need from you is wether rock's texture is similarly corrupted or not.

Yes, similarly corrupted.

Originally Posted by gap

Moreover, there is a set of tests you could do for us:

1. resize LH_LaPlate.tga to 512x512 pixels saving it as a 32 bits/pixel tga, no compression;
   
   if that doesn't fix the problem,
2. embed the resized LH_LaPlate.tga to the first material in LLH_LaPlate.dat;
   
   if that doesn't make any difference,
3. rename the labels of the two materials in LH_LaPlate.tga to whatever you want, LaPlate_Concrete1 and LaPlate_Metal1 for example;

Nothing is working. I did exactly as you asked, and here is the result at the end :

[the_frog]

Kendras, gap,

in case you two want to have an addtional opinion about the texture issue, send me the *.dat file plus the texture (original site prefered)

[gap]

Originally Posted by MLF

The reflections look good, apart from the light (halo) missing - that doesn't look right IMO. See screenshot 1

Okay, I hope in the next days you will get the time to test my tweaks of the light FX without halo but with water reflection controller. See one of my answers below for more details on that.

Originally Posted by MLF

I believe caustics are the reflection of light from 1 surface to another. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caustic_(optics)

Yes, you are right. More specifically, caustics are sun rays refracted by the wavy sea surface and reflected on other surfaces. This is how this optical effect looks in reality:

 

and this is how SH5 mimics it:

 

I know caustics are also featured in SHIII, but I don't know how well implemented they are.

Originally Posted by MLF

I would therefore expect to see light being reflected from the sea on to the lighthouse which I don't I'm afraid. However the light/shade does change when the sun moves around the tower. (See screenshot 2 and 3)

Yes, I don't see any caustics in your screenshot

Originally Posted by MLF

As Kendras reports, the model was black with speckles. I deleted the alpha channel and the light was rendered correctly but possibly specular reflections isn't working?

No, specular reflections are coming from the alpha channel. No alpha channel, no specularity

Originally Posted by MLF

I believe the reflection of the light on the water is more desirable as you have to be very close to the light to see the line under the platform which is still there. (See screenshot 4)

I think there's a misunderstanding here: to the best of my knowledge the main purpose of the RayTracedHalo controller, is making light sources to cast light on surrounding objects. When Kendras worked on the light effect (now stored in the Lighthouse_FX file), he added one to the light node, and this is where the light halo on platform's underside is coming from, I think. The controller has two states: "True" and "False"; when used in its main role, the controller must be set to "True", but I have read on the forum that the same controller could be used on some objects for making them to block the light from a nearby light source, so to prevent the light from affecting its back faces. As far as I understood, this is done by adding a second RayTracedHalo controller to the desired object, and by setting its flag to "False". This is exactly what I did with the platform, as i thought it could cure the glitch shown in your screenshot. When you tested my files, you reported that nothing had changes and I removed the controller (the one set to "False" from the platform, not the one one attached to the light effect, which is set to "True" and which has always been there from day one.
I then tried to add water reflections to the ligh effect, and attached a WaterReflectionController to it. When you tested this new version, you told me that the game crashed just after the first light flash and that you fixed the problem by removing the RayTracedHalo controller. That must have been the one stored in Lighthouse_FX, as the other one (the I had previously attached to the platform) had already been removed. Now my question is:

after you removed that controller, were light reflections working? was the lack of light halo acceptable?

I hope I made myself clear this time

Originally Posted by MLF

I also noticed a gap (not you) appearing between the tower and the base/rock as the sea level rises and falls – IMO not critical as underwater (See screenshots 5&6)

That's a bit puzzling too.

You said a gap "between the tower and the base/rock". Base/rock and tower are two separate objects, that's right. Their junction lies at the top of the concrete base (bottom of the yellow/black tower), and it is well above the sea level. Your screenshot and your wording clearly show that the glich happens underwater, near the water line, and that it only affects the concrete base, which is a solid mesh. Did you ever notice a similar glitch while testing other versions of the mod? Might the Caustics controller (attached to the base) have anything to do with it?

Originally Posted by MLF

Chart Icon is much much better. (Screenshot 7)

Originally Posted by MLF

Rock and tower both collisionable (Screenshots 8 & 9)

Originally Posted by MLF

As reported by Kendras, after shooting away the light – halo and top mark still exist. (Screenshot 10)

That was expected. I wish someone had tested v11 with patch 1 enabled on top of it

Originally Posted by MLF

Hope this helps

Out for most of day, so won't be able to test.

Sure it did! Thank you for your feedback and enjoy the week-end

Originally Posted by Kendras

The tower falls down, and then disappears.

Coool

I have one of the damage decals ready, and another one is in the works. When we finish with more important features/fixes, I can create a destroyed tower model to be linked to the main model through ObjectRemains controller (or, if it doesn't work, I can split the main model in two halves), and we can work on some 'concrete debris falling in the water' effect. What do you think?

P.S: can you please copy/paste your zone settings here?
I might decide to reinstall the game and to do some tests myself

Originally Posted by Kendras

Nothing is working. I did exactly as you asked, and here is the result at the end

Okay, no problem: we will fix it. I would give up on that if I wasn't sure that a good specular mask could greatly improve the look of that model

[gap]

Originally Posted by the_frog

Kendras, gap,

in case you two want to have an addtional opinion about the texture issue, send me the *.dat file plus the texture (original site prefered)

Sure we want... if only you could join our dev team, this mod would probably be finished in a matter of days!

This is the latest public alpha with reflection map enabled but corrupted:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=329

Should you want to carry out some ballistic tests as well, I suggest you to enable this patch on top of the main mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=334

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

Nothing is working. I did exactly as you asked, and here is the result at the end :

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, no problem: we will fix it. I would give up on that if I wasn't sure that a good specular mask could greatly improve the look of that model

Originally Posted by the_frog

Kendras, gap,

in case you two want to have an addtional opinion about the texture issue, send me the *.dat file plus the texture (original site prefered)

I think I know what is going on guys: alpha blending was not enabled, that made the reflection data passed on to the graphic engine, either totally black or ototally white. My bad for not thinking of it before

@ Kendras

Please scrap all the tweaks I suggested yesterday and check the 'Disable z-buffer wtite + enable alpha blend' checkbox for all the materials with SpeculaMask action controller attached

P.S: if you want to make the reflection effect more or less evident, you can play with the 'Specular strength' material property. In stock files, I have seen settings as high as 140; usually materials with no reflection map enabled, have much lower setting, similar to the ones that our 'concrete' and 'metal' materials are set to.

Originally Posted by gap

When we finish with more important features/fixes, I can create a destroyed tower model to be linked to the main model through ObjectRemains controller (or, if it doesn't work, I can split the main model in two halves), and we can work on some 'concrete debris falling in the water' effect. What do you think?

IMO, it's not a good idea to use the ObjectRemains controller, not enough realistic to have a new model poped up from no where. The idea to create several destroyable parts is much better, like ships breaking in two parts. There, you could create several small parts that could have collisionable spheres in order they fly in the air when they are hit by shells. No need to create a new effect !

Originally Posted by gap

P.S: can you please copy/paste your zone settings here?

Here are my first values, but they can be a bit lowered if needed.

 

[ReinforcedTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=1000
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=100
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[ConcreteTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=1000
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=90
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[StoneTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=700
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=60
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[BrickTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=600
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=50
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[MetalTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=400
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=40
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Effect1=Effect1=#Fire_small, 70
Effect2=#Fire_big, 100
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[SkeletalTower]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
Destructible=Yes
HitPoints=200
Armor Level=40
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Effect1=Effect1=#Fire_small, 70
Effect2=#Fire_big, 100
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[GasCylinder]
Multiplier=3.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=50
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=5
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Effect1=#Small_splinter_explosion_no_halo, 100
Effect2=#Fire_big, 100
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=Fuel

[LanternRoom]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=150
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Effect1=Effect1=#Fire_small, 70
Effect2=#Fire_big, 100
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[LanternBig]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=50
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=5
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Effect1=#Small_splinter_explosion_no_halo, 100
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[LanternSmall]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=10
Destructible=Yes
Armor Level=1
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

Originally Posted by gap

Please scrap all the tweaks I suggested yesterday and check the 'Disable z-buffer wtite + enable alpha blend' checkbox for all the materials with SpeculaMask action controller attached

Still black.

Originally Posted by gap

Please, enabled this patch on top of alpha v 11 without your node changes, and tell me if now lantern and topmark are destroyed when the platform is destroyed

No, halo and top mark are still there after the platform is destroyed.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Kendras

IMO, it's not a good idea to use the ObjectRemains controller, not enough realistic to have a new model poped up from no where.

Well, when I talked about that controler I was thinking mostly about a burned out and warped version of the tourelle, after the gas explosion

Originally Posted by Kendras

The idea to create several destroyable parts is much better, like ships breaking in two parts. There, you could create several small parts that could have collisionable spheres in order they fly in the air when they are hit by shells. No need to create a new effect !

Well, there is not much in that tower that can be break apart if not the tower itself, but I can break it in two detachable parts, and I can make ledge to break apart as well

Originally Posted by Kendras

Here are my first values, but they can be a bit lowered if needed.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Kendras

Still black.

Le's see it The_Frog can give us some clue on that

Originally Posted by Kendras

No, halo and top mark are still there after the platform is destroyed.

Okay, no big problem here: your solution of moving Y02 and Y03 into the platform model is good enough