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Old 07-03-2020, 10:14 PM   #1
Jonny-Dog
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Default Let the commuity take over

Edit: Commuity = Community


This project is dying. We are a small community of sub-freaks, you are 2 or 3 developers.
There is no feedback from you what so ever, except "we are working on xxx, and a patch will be released soon. Same every Friday.


Lets face it... You have collected the money, and this is a side project that is getting laborious, day by day. You probably have a "real job" now, since the sale of Wolfpack is most likely declining.


With the tempo this game is evolving, I estimate you started coding it in 1977.



I have great respect regarding both Einar and Oscar for the simulator you have given to us, but you are tired now. You are fed up. Too much work for two guys.


I have one suggestion for you developers:
You laid the ground stone. Let the enthusiasts carry the burden in to the future by releasing parts of the source code. The base game will still be needed to apply the code/patch/mod. Your pockets will still be filled with Swedish kroner.




Best regards,
Jonny Dog

Last edited by Jonny-Dog; 07-03-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 07-03-2020, 11:53 PM   #2
Onkel Neal
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Hullo Johny, appreciate your insights but we're not done yet.
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:53 PM   #3
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I have to agree though. Development is slow (and I'm putting it mildly here). Now, the subsim community is very patient and understanding (small team, passion project, although I do wonder why with 30K+ sales some of the gains haven't been reïnvested in expanding the project), but it is quite frustrating to make suggestion after suggestion, reasonable things, low hanging fruit, which will improve gameplay greatly and get zilch, nada, nothing response on it. Why (the flying ****) are we getting multiple stopwatches for instance? Literaly no-one ever requested that feature nor will it have any effect on the gameplay. In the meanwhile, valuable time on it is wasted. Plenty of guys in the community as well who are more than willing to lend a hand on the programming side, coding, modelling, etc. - without any interest in making a red dime out of it - yet, nothing. You're sitting on a goldmine here! Why not tap into it?
It's tough love indeed. I love the game, but it could have been so much better already if the devs had taken even a single percent of what the community has to offer into account.

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Old 07-05-2020, 06:54 AM   #4
Alx_Novoros
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Greetings, friends. I will allow myself to disagree with some opinions. The game was released on March 15, 2019. It has been in early access for less than a year and a half. The progress of updates is more or less stable. Some patches were released faster than others. But the work does not stop. I knew Oscar long before Wolfpack was released. We discussed HMS Marulken and the future prospects for developing submarine simulators. The call to hand over the game sounds like the cry of a drowning man. Did you pay the money? For this money, you enjoyed the game. Another question is, are you happy? NO?! But you have certainly read about the rules when buying. Wolfpack is not just a game for developers, it is their dream and idea. They were the first to make cooperative multiplayer for a submarine. And I'm sure they won't give it up. And don't count other people's money. I participated in testing before the game was released for free. Because it was also a great pleasure for me to touch the dream. Be patient. Peace and good to you.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:16 AM   #5
Jonny-Dog
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Ok, I take back what I said about letting the community take over or helping the devs.

Since I posted it, I've discovered U-Boat Sim. From what I can see in their Discord channel, the dev(s) is very entusiastic, and encourage people to come with suggestions. Impressive how fast they are working, and still able to communicate with the community and give daily updates. It is my impression that they accept people that holds the skills to help the development. A total different approach than the Wolfpack team.

The level of detail in this sim is mindblowing! If they pull it through, it will be the biggest happening this decade and beyond (except maybe MS Flight Sim 2020).

The community effort would be better spent with U-Boat Sim.
I'll bet it will be a fully playable simulator long before Wolfpack is even out of Early Access.

Sorry if I insulted or upset anyone with my post.

Sincerely,
Jonny-Dog

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Old 07-05-2020, 04:34 PM   #6
stellaferox
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You keep referring to the team of UBoat-sim as "they" but is really a one man show. I asked a few years ago to join up forces with Uboat-sim and WOTA but they all developped into different directions. WOTA is officially dead as no new things have come out in the last 5 years. UBoat-sim is just a sim of the technical details of a UBoat but very good at that. A very promising initiative.

I agree that Wolfpack is dead. I warned the community a few months ago as since september last year no significant updates have been brought out, apart from some log-in procedure and a morse code radio nobody notices.
To be honest I am very disappointed because I love this game so much. I really, really hope that Onkel Neal can bring this back to life or more devs can jump in!

Meanwhile I am awaiting "War on the sea" as announced by STEAM as coming soon...
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:14 PM   #7
ElJammos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellaferox View Post
You keep referring to the team of UBoat-sim as "they" but is really a one man show. I asked a few years ago to join up forces with Uboat-sim and WOTA but they all developped into different directions. WOTA is officially dead as no new things have come out in the last 5 years. UBoat-sim is just a sim of the technical details of a UBoat but very good at that. A very promising initiative.

I agree that Wolfpack is dead. I warned the community a few months ago as since september last year no significant updates have been brought out, apart from some log-in procedure and a morse code radio nobody notices.
To be honest I am very disappointed because I love this game so much. I really, really hope that Onkel Neal can bring this back to life or more devs can jump in!

Meanwhile I am awaiting "War on the sea" as announced by STEAM as coming soon...
I can tell you that is absolutely not the case anymore. Dev-team currently consists of four members. Apart from that, there are seven people dedicated to contributing assets (modelling, coding, translations, etc.), two people on bug-testing and a quite rapidly growing community. You're more than welcome to come and have a look! I bet they might be interested in joining forces as well.

This is the discord: https://discord.gg/gkcWADG

This is the Marius' YouTube-channel where you'll find a whole lot of updates over the past couple of weeks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpAHLYjMxLVj6LJ4OOYw3_A



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Old 07-05-2020, 07:04 PM   #8
Onkel Neal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellaferox View Post
You keep referring to the team of UBoat-sim as "they" but is really a one man show. I asked a few years ago to join up forces with Uboat-sim and WOTA but they all developped into different directions. WOTA is officially dead as no new things have come out in the last 5 years. UBoat-sim is just a sim of the technical details of a UBoat but very good at that. A very promising initiative.

I agree that Wolfpack is dead. I warned the community a few months ago as since september last year no significant updates have been brought out, apart from some log-in procedure and a morse code radio nobody notices.
To be honest I am very disappointed because I love this game so much. I really, really hope that Onkel Neal can bring this back to life or more devs can jump in!

Meanwhile I am awaiting "War on the sea" as announced by STEAM as coming soon...
Look, Onkel Neal is only a cheerleader at this point and a witness behind the scenes. It's a disservice to the devs to think that "I" will have a significant impact on the development of this game, because Oscar and Einer are doing the work, not me. Every week we review the progress, the current goals, and the upcoming areas they are working on. There is work and progress, right now it's not something that has an immediate impact, but it's there.

Keep in mind, this is their first major project, they are learning as they go. I remember in Sweden spending days discussion all the aspects of the project, the AI, the weather, the ballast system, having localized sound, etc. More than once I reflected on how easy it is to describe what needs to be in the game and what a challenge it is to actually create it, understand the code, get all the details of the sub interior right, etc. I still am mightily impressed with their work and I happen to know it is going to get better.

I can appreciate your concern, and there's nothing wrong with being anxious about the pace of development. I respect you for speaking up, and being civil about it at the same time.

thanks, guys,
Neal
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:54 AM   #9
stellaferox
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Neal,

I sincerely hope that (serious) progress can be made. Understand that this is frustration over a game I like. But even if the progress is made, there will come a point that "only" two guys will get overworked managing all the incoming comments and meanwhile keeping the game on a roadmap.
Also it would be good and transparant to admit to the community that the work is not progressing as fast as was communicated and that changes in the roadmap were being made. And yes, I will throw in another buck if the communication is up to standard. The community will only keep backing the project if everybody is honest about it. We cannot keep living on "very soon" anymore.

Thx for your time.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:37 AM   #10
Alx_Novoros
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at the moment, we are at the stage of transition to a new level. now developers are engaged in a very important area of game development. this is the creation of a simple mission editor. this will allow you to introduce a completely new gameplay to the game. once we get the mission editor and it is fully adapted with the WPCommander app, players will be able to participate in their character's career. this will remind you of silent hunter online. missions will no longer be monotonous, and players will receive different tasks, the consumption of torpedoes will be taken into account, they will receive encrypted radio messages, their character's military rank will be upgraded, they will earn experience points that will be used to buy torpedoes and to move to a new level of complexity, and so on. after the appearance of the mission editor, players will be able to enjoy this process for a while, and developers will be able to breathe more freely and engage in conducting other elements of the game: planes, land, and so on. WPCommander already exists and you can try it out. attracting players to participate in the WPC campaign will also be useful for the development of the game..
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Old 07-08-2020, 06:16 PM   #11
Fidd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
...More than once I reflected on how easy it is to describe what needs to be in the game and what a challenge it is to actually create it, understand the code, get all the details of the sub interior right, etc. I still am mightily impressed with their work and I happen to know it is going to get better.

thanks, guys,
Neal
I couldn't put it better myself. "Jam tommorrow" is much easier to deliver than "Jam today" and all devs are by their nature flagrant optimists. I'd stick with a working game every time over the promise of a 'better' one.

What we have is a very particular game, and thus far the devs have made no mis-steps, which is a really healthy sign.
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Old 07-09-2020, 04:25 AM   #12
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I wholeheartedly agree with Jonny-Dog. Just look at the overwhelming progress made by Koji Kamori over at #escorts in the main wolfpack discord.

The community's hunger for progress is far greater than the Einar & Oscar's ability to keep up with alone. It would have been wise to take the wealth of sales from Wolfpack and post wanted ads within the community for extra hands. Modelers, progammers and the like. Expand the development team and offer them a wage from the sales of the game itself, or offer them payment in the form of percentage of sales.

It's not too late to ask the community for help though. Koji's progress is astoundingly fast as it is high in quality. And I know he's not the only one in the community with talent and eager to help along the development of this game we all enjoy so much. But the devs will never know unless they ask.
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:39 AM   #13
stellaferox
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A wholehearted suggestion would be to link up with Mark Hessburg, who has been creating Wolves Of The Atlantic (WOTA, see FB). This game is never going to see the light of day because he is a perfectionist and alone. Together you would make a splendid team!
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:36 PM   #14
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JavaPunk! nice post!
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