Wuhan virus 2020

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

The primary reason common flu and colds are down is simply because of greater handwashing and mask wearing, etc., things that people usually are less than strict about normally. Even just washing your hands frequently will geatly lessen your chances of getting a cold.

And it is a good lesson for us.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Let's revisit this. This argument that colds and flu are down because of hand washing and masks. These actions, we were told, we're necessary to prevent transmission of COVID.

When you look at the data from this past 2020-2021 cold and flu season, yes, the numbers of cold and flu cases are vastly reduced from prior years. However, COVID cases continued to rise throughout the winter.

So - how can masks and hand washing (and social distancing) be claimed as stopping colds and flu, while at the same time, not stopping COVID?

The answer is that these actions have *never* prevented transmission of respiratory viruses that spread by aerosol. The answer is the COVID outcompeted flu and RSV through roughly end of December 2020. When you look at burdens in early 2021, you'll see that COVID cases decreased, not because of vaccines, but because rhinovirus started outcompeting COVID. As we moved into summer, rhinovirus began to be outcompeted by COVID. *ALL* respiratory viruses are sharply seasonal.

The data is all there for anyone to see. You just have to recognize that respiratory viruses with animal reservoirs can *not* be eliminated like you would with smallpox. We should do as I've been saying all along - treat it as an endemic virus.

Even the best of hand washers gets a cold. From my understanding, COVID was much more contagious than the flu. Perhaps the reason the COVID cases increased as flu cases decreased. However, not washing one's hands as directed is still prudent advise.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

because rhinovirus started outcompeting COVID. As we moved into summer, rhinovirus began to be outcompeted by COVID.

So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?

The flu "season".

[mapuc]

Friends I think you misunderstod my last post aimed to Jeff-Groves.

Someone wrote "we would not try to convince the other person to do anything they really don't want to do."

I never said you should convince your love one, but ask them why.

It's only pure interest to why some people reject the jab the reason behind it.

I understand that's up to them. So we leave it there.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

It's all good Markus,
Sometimes your with someone so long that you instinctively know the reasoning behind decisions so you never ask for details.

Now Nancy and I did talk about what I posted here last night.
She surprised me by saying She is thinking of taking the shots.
I didn't ask why! I just accepted her statement with no comments nor questions.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Even the best of hand washers gets a cold. From my understanding, COVID was much more contagious than the flu. Perhaps the reason the COVID cases increased as flu cases decreased. However, not washing one's hands as directed is still prudent advise.

It surely is prudent to wash your hands - it significantly cuts the chances of getting many cases of gastroenteritis.

The fact of the matter is that almost all respiratory viruses are *primarily* spread by aerosols. The short-range sneeze/cough route is a combination of aerosol and droplet. But, outside of that, infected people spread via aerosols that float on the air currents and have a significant hang-time. Worse, most masks (surgical, cloth) actually aerosolize exhalate.

If you can smell perfume, cigar smoke, etc. while wearing a mask, it's not protecting you from aerosols.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.

Had your Tetanus shot lately?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.

You can see in Africa where that leads.

Or in the French oversea territories. Martinique and Guadeloupe report incidence rates close to 2000. Reports say the health systems are collapsing, the hospitals are flooded and drowning, the ICUs full of 20-30 year old. The doctors say the siotuaiton is much wors enwo then it was during the first wave that found them without warning. Healthy, young people with no comorbidities, and they crowd and block the ICUs. Not the old and weak. The young, strong and healthy ones it is. And most of them are unvaccinated. Not even every fourth adult there has had a first jab at least. Local population holds strong anti-French sentiments over some pharma scandal twenty years ago.

A French government delegation found very strong words.

Covid 19 is not the flu. Will some people please finally dig it. Its not the flu, its not the cold.


And the antibodies - they do not stay, they fade away again. 5-6 months immunity protection, it is currently estimated. You seem to not gain lasting immunity strong enough to prevent later repeated infections. Not those who were ill, not those who were vaccinated.

[mapuc]

For the first time ever I toke one of these quick test. I tell you my mom and my elderly sister had a fight with me, because I didn't want to I just DON'T trust these test. But my mom had invited os to a restaurant and they demand either vaccine card, quick test or paper that you have had covid-19.

As expected the test was negative.

Markus

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Had your Tetanus shot lately?

Funny you ask. I got bit by someone's dog recently while dropping mine off at the kennel. I got a tetanus shot. My last tetanus shot? 11 years ago. Not the same thing as an endemic seasonal respiratory virus.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You can see in Africa where that leads.

Or in the French oversea territories. Martinique and Guadeloupe report incidence rates close to 2000. Reports say the health systems are collapsing, the hospitals are flooded and drowning, the ICUs full of 20-30 year old. The doctors say the siotuaiton is much wors enwo then it was during the first wave that found them without warning. Healthy, young people with no comorbidities, and they crowd and block the ICUs. Not the old and weak. The young, strong and healthy ones it is. And most of them are unvaccinated. Not even every fourth adult there has had a first jab at least. Local population holds strong anti-French sentiments over some pharma scandal twenty years ago.

A French government delegation found very strong words.

Covid 19 is not the flu. Will some people please finally dig it. Its not the flu, its not the cold.


And the antibodies - they do not stay, they fade away again. 5-6 months immunity protection, it is currently estimated. You seem to not gain lasting immunity strong enough to prevent later repeated infections. Not those who were ill, not those who were vaccinated.

Firstly, Africa and French overseas territories are 3rd world sh!tholes where the medical care is inadequate to begin with...

Secondly we have studies showing that those who were infected have higher levels of antibodies than those who were vaccinated - and for far longer. There is strong evidence that those who recovered may have lifetime immunity, but that still need further study.

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good...dy-protection/

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Funny you ask. I got bit by someone's dog recently while dropping mine off at the kennel. I got a tetanus shot. My last tetanus shot? 11 years ago. Not the same thing as an endemic seasonal respiratory virus.

Or Rabies. But, having recurrent boosters for anything is actually a blessing and not a curse. Some will probably get over their fear of needles, even.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

For the first time ever I toke one of these quick test. I tell you my mom and my elderly sister had a fight with me, because I didn't want to I just DON'T trust these test. But my mom had invited os to a restaurant and they demand either vaccine card, quick test or paper that you have had covid-19.

As expected the test was negative.

Markus

Quicktests are claimed by producers to have a sensitivity of 90%, means 90% of infected people get recognised. But validation efforts of various research projects seem to show that they are in fact just half of that, 45-50%. These tests work quite reliable with people with very high virus looads (people that could turn into super spreaders due to these high loads) , but they work terribly bad with low, but still infectous, virus loads of the testing subject, and these are the vast majority. Also, these tests recognise an infeciton only much time later in its development than a PCR test.

So your mistrust is justified. I too do not give much for quick tests. Either its a - more expensive and time consuming - PCR test, or one can skip it. For politicians wanting mass tests at schools, these quick tests provide a needed alibi function only, a fig leaf.



I would stop their selling completely. A reliability of only 45% with non-super-spreader virus loads is useless.