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Old 10-06-2009, 05:03 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazovnew View Post
Good news. After a week of wasting time I've managed to integrate the tdc into the attack periscope screen.
Well done Sir. Well Done (BZ)

When do you thing that it will be ready for "prime time".

With your permission I would like to integrate this into OMEGU as soon as you think it is ready
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazovnew View Post
I just hope I can find a way to create an AutoTDC button on it, but I have not had any success so far.
I did that for my version, which I failed to ever release, because I wanted to create a button for open/close torpedo doors and never found the time to do it.
My last update post here at subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=39

The auto/manual thing does work 99% of the time.
That little green/yellow button you can see...

If I can manage to find the time to find notes or anything regarding how to, I'll be glad to send it to you.
I like that you have made it possible to hide the dials in the left side. Mine is attached to the lower right panel, where you choose torpedo tubes.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
Man, people sure like the ship's length crossing the wire method of determining speed! I haven't read a single instance of that being used in real life. Why? They didn't know ships' lengths! Most of the time either they could not identify what they were shooting at or misidentified it, completely invalidating the use of the method.

There is slightly more justification for using it in U-Boats, as there were scads of nearly identical Liberty Ships all over the Atlantic and the Germans MAY have known what their length was.

Can someone come up with a historical reference to any captain routinely using that method during the war?
RR,
turn OFF the map updates (there is no point to talk about manual targeting with map updates ON,it turns to be only an arcade game)and tell me...do you have any method of attacking with a u-boat ? i am really curious....
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:00 PM   #79
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congratulations Karamazovnew !
the panel is very nice !! are the u-jagd tools going to be included in your project ??
ps: i wish Carotio's button to work ,if yes....it will be just perfect !

keep up !!
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:32 PM   #80
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@RR
This isn't just about the fixed wire... I'm testing the mod on a save game where i have a ship in perfect position at less than 2000m in light fog and I can't shoot it because the stadimeter doesn't work.... So I don't know the speed and I don't know the range... And anyway, I've already explained why I think you're wrong here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...7&postcount=17

@Carotio.
Hmm.. I'm really interested in your mod. Where can I find it?

@Makman
Well, to know what to expect....
Phase 1 (should be ready tomorrow, I'll post it as beta test :P): TDC to AP screen
Phase 2: Torpedo Settings and fire control to AP screen
Phase 3: Make the peri a bit smaller and replace the markings file, background and depth meter
Phase 4: Ujagd tool in AP screen (I'll also keep the stadimeter but only for visual refference)
Phase 5: Ship Lenghts in recognition manual
Phase 6: Uzo Screen
Phase 7: Obs Scope Screen

Right now I'm adding shadows to the dials... reaaally hard but it's worth the effort.

Last edited by karamazovnew; 10-06-2009 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazovnew View Post
@Carotio.
Hmm.. I'm really interested in your mod. Where can I find it?
Nowhere, read my post above. I never released it because I still had more work, I wanted to do.
But I may do it one of the days soon. Then you can have a look at it...
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:46 PM   #82
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I'm only interested in the block of code for the Autoupdate button (menu.ini and commands.cfg sections). Don't you have that already? This mod is anyway far from finished

PS: important question for everybody. I've put the TDC on the left and the Torpedoes on the right because both panels have preety much the same layout as the real thing and it's very comfortable to use (ergonomy wise). But now I'm beginning to reconsider since the TDC obstructs the vertical marks on the periscope. I can mirror them to the other side but I want to know NOW how you prefer it because I'd rather not move 100 items after
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:52 AM   #83
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Carotio, I'm impressed, I've never thought of using a dial as a means to input a command that has nothing to do with that dial . I've used the indications on FLB Sales' thread and managed to make a working button. But I've hit the same problem as you. Since the command doesn't affect the dial itself, it will never move . So... while being struck by lightning, I came up with the next:

(I've used the torpedo pistol graphics for this one, but that doesn't mater, it's just a dial group with a "val" and "dial" in it)
[Dial98]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=56; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Radar_toggle_sweep_focus
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
SndStep=1
SndList=2,Menu.TDC.TorpedoSalvo_T,0.1,Menu.TDC.Tor pedoSalvo_S,1,

[Dial99]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=56; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes

There are 2 dials on top of eachother. Both are clicked at the same time. The first will toggle the radar sweep, the second will toggle the autoupdate. In short, it works even if you don't have a radar, or if you're underwater. I've tried the same thing using the Radar Range dial but that only worked if you actually had a radar bastards.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:14 AM   #84
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I have totally forgotten that I wrote in the thread what I did
Yes, there really is no need for a dial graphic, since it doesn't move, as long as the user can just click on the graphic as if it was a button.
Well, I hope you can do it with that info then...
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:22 AM   #85
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I don't think you understood my last post, the dials moves . That's because the same item sends 2 commands (through 2 dials). One changes the graphic dial (by changing the radar mode) and the other autoupdates the tdc . Ofc it's a dirty fix but on the other hand:
1. who uses radar?!
2. who uses radar underwater?!
3. who uses radar while setting the tdc?!
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:41 AM   #86
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I haven't read a single instance of that being used in real life. Why? They didn't know ships' lengths! Most of the time either they could not identify what they were shooting at or misidentified it, completely invalidating the use of the method.

There is slightly more justification for using it in U-Boats, as there were scads of nearly identical Liberty Ships all over the Atlantic and the Germans MAY have known what their length was.

Can someone come up with a historical reference to any captain routinely using that method during the war?
The method was widely used in U-Boats, not in US submarines. In the interwar period, several makes of periscopes (US, british and german) offered models with the fixed line feature, which was actually a different wire, free from the main periscope shaft and coupled to the compass so that when moving the periscope it would stay in the true bearing it had been set (This allows to reduce the effect of own ship speed in the measuring). On surface attacks it was used with the UZO -which only had a vertical line in the crosshair- easily because the U-Boats favoured the dog leg approach, and constantly pointing the bow to the enemy is the best way to use it.

Paragraph 105.e) of the U-Boat commander's Hanbook: "In every submarine attack, whether by day or by night, the attempt must be made to obtain reliable data for aiming (controlling) the torpedo, ... measuring the deflection with the aid of the line ..."

The size of enemy ships was estimated by the commander or IWO, once you have some practice it isn't that difficult and errors of -/+ 15 metres are not much relevant.

I included this method in the tutorial for firing solutions -as well as the aspect ratio- despite both being used in U-Boats because they are by far easier to do in the game and by one single person than plotting -which is what the us submarines crews did to gather target data-. Not coincidentally, because in the U-Boat the captain (Or IWO) worked it all himself out, whereas the US commander had the assitence of the whole tracking party and the TDC operator. Since we are alone when playing, the U-Boat method suits us better IMO.

CHeers
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by karamazovnew View Post
I don't think you understood my last post, the dials moves . That's because the same item sends 2 commands (through 2 dials). One changes the graphic dial (by changing the radar mode) and the other autoupdates the tdc . Ofc it's a dirty fix but on the other hand:
1. who uses radar?!
2. who uses radar underwater?!
3. who uses radar while setting the tdc?!
Ok new info... The above aproach is not bad but I've come up with another... One can even attach a autoupdate command to the AOB dial for example. The first click doesn't change the aob but "enables" the dial. Then you drag or click it to set the aob and the autoupdate turns off automatically. But, after a bit of testing, it's not such a great idea . But that gave me a new idea. Apparently, the Dial object doesn't have to be a type 1031, it can be anything. So why not a checkbox, or a button? These change their image if they are clicked. So, something like this:

[G26 I64]
Name=Dial
Type=1033;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x260FF902
ParentID=0x260FF900
Pos=0,0,66,66
Zone= 155 433 66 66 1 1 0x260FF900 0 0 0x260FF902 0 0 0 0
Materials=8
Display=0
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 0=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 1=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 1=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 2=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 2=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 3=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 3=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 4=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 4=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 5=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 5=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 6=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 6=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 7=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 7=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0
Font=0
TextFlags=0x0
CheckBoxWidth=46
StatesColors=0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF
ToolTipText=2247

coupled with this:


[Dial98]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=63; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
SndStep=1
SndList=2,Menu.TDC.Pistol_I,0.1,Menu.TDC.Pistol_M, 1,

works like a charm .

There's just one bug. Since will be at least 3 autoupdate buttons in the game, on different screens, I don't know of any way to link them to the "real" hardcoded autoupdate button. That means that if you change the autoupdate status and then you leave any screen (uzo, ap, obs, attack map) without switching it back, the other screens will have the graphic reversed (on for off, off for on, except for the real one on the attack map). But hey, it's better than nothing. Anyway, I really need to move the TDC to the right of the screen. I've just realised that it would cover up an important part of the AOBF wheel. I guess the beta test release will have to wait untill tomorrow. For the moment I'll use the method above for the autotdc update. In the fianl release I think I'll use one of the temporary solution dials. We'll see then.

Last edited by karamazovnew; 10-07-2009 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:47 AM   #88
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Quote:
PS: important question for everybody. I've put the TDC on the left and the Torpedoes on the right because both panels have preety much the same layout as the real thing and it's very comfortable to use (ergonomy wise). But now I'm beginning to reconsider since the TDC obstructs the vertical marks on the periscope. I can mirror them to the other side but I want to know NOW how you prefer it because I'd rather not move 100 items after
The majority of people are right-handed and as such play with the mouse on the right of the screen, at his right hand's reach. It results therefore more natural to have the cursor also at that part of the screen, and the "untouchable" items like the Papenberg on the left, as fiddling with the dials cross the screen doesn't seem as intuitive.

For left-handers though, it's a different matter I suppose. Me I'm both handed and do nearly indistinctly tasks with both hands, but still we live in a right handed world and you expect to find the switches and buttons on the right side of whatever you operate with.

My 2 cents
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:27 PM   #89
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I just took a brief look at what I have written in my files and it's not the same as what I wrote 1½ year ago in the thread and not the same as you have just written above.

You have of course my permission to use my findings, if you want, with a little credit of course.
I think I may make a new thread for my own version too though. My version only works for 1280*1024 screen resolution; I tried it on my widescreen laptop, and it didn't look good.

These inputs below all adress the auto-manual button as I made it.
Here it goes:

dials.cfg

[Dial90]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=37; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x2620D002
CrtVal=0x2620D001
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
CmdOnDrag=No

[Dial91]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel UZO
Type=37; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x2820D002
CrtVal=0x2820D001
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
CmdOnDrag=No

command.cfg

[Cmd131]
Name=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Ctxt=1
;MnID=0x2620D001
;MnID=0x2820D001
Key0=0x41,Rs,"Right Shift + A"

menu_1024_768.ini

[G26 I181]
Name=Switch; Carotio`s torpedo visere, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x2620D000
ParentID=0x26150000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 405 -335 46 46 1 1 0x26150000 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I182]
Name=Val
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2620D001
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,1,1
Zone= 18 -4 01 01 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0x2620D001 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1x.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=0
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I183]
Name=Dial
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2620D002
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 0 0 46 46 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0x2620D002 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I184]
Name=Perihintergrund
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2620D0003
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,750,160
Zone= -390 185 750 160 0 1 0x262D000 0 0 0x26200003 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/Perihintergrund2.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9

******************'

[G28 I167]
Name=Switch; Carotio`s torpedo visere, Auto-Manuel Uzo
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x2820D000
ParentID=0x28150000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 405 -335 46 46 1 1 0x28150000 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I168]
Name=Val
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2820D001
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,1,1
Zone= 18 -4 01 01 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0x2820D001 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1x.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=0
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I169]
Name=Dial
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2820D002
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 0 0 46 46 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0x2820D002 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I170]
Name=Perihintergrund
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2820D0003
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,750,160
Zone= -390 185 750 160 0 1 0x282D000 0 0 0x28200003 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/Perihintergrund2.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:58 PM   #90
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Thanks Carotio. Actually it is almost the same . I won't use any of your code, since the mods are too different anyway as I'm aiming for the old ACM for SH3 style of play(you'll see at the end ). I really must have a visual reference that the autoupdate is on or off. At least now we know how to add commands to items in all screens (almost all) And this method of using a button/checkbox for the dial background allows visual switching
When more buttons do the same thing, the modder has to find a dial that can be modified by a command, to link them together. I've tried with the useless Hydrophone Volume dial (no luck, it simply doesn't work). Since my mod will completely replace the notepad, I'll have the temporary solution dials to play with. Maybe even the Target height, because the stadimeter will work independently. Again, I'll see then. Now back to work, mirroring the tdc is a pain in the #@!.
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