The Firearm thread: Engineering artistry of wood, polymer and steel.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Gun news

I'm hoping I can get my hands on one.

I like Beretta (and probably will carry one if I'm not convinced otherwise) but I like Sig a lot more.

As soon as the surplus M9's reach market I'm hopefully gonna snag one up. Although here soon I'll be saving for the Beretta 96 chambered in .40

I don't care much for 9mm and .45 has too many disadvantages as a CCW caliber. Missouri recently changed laws that loosened restrictions but I'll still get my permit to go out of state. On top of that, if I'm at home I have a shotgun which is way better for defense anyway.

As far as the 9mm M9's, my uncle carried one in Iraq and said at the time the issue ones were awful. Nearly blew up in his hand after he dropped it and dented the barrel in. Good thing he found out before he had to fire it. The civilian market ones (92) are supposedly way better and have an easier trigger pull. I've not fired a proper M9 but have been behind 92's and I think they're great as long as they don't get dented like has been claimed.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Safety? We dont need no stinking safety. . Here's a 1939 Soviet TT33 from my collection. Other than not chambering a round there was no safety feature built into the weapon.

Also going to get a Tokarev to go with my Mosin-Nagant.

EDIT: These aren't too expensive so I was thinking about one of these. It's not a true Russian model, being Romanian and all, but it's still a Tokarev

I am a simple man. I love German cars, Russian weapons and (proper, not the Olive Garden food chain bullcrap) Italian food.

[Commander Wallace]

The Sigs and Berettas are both excellent and you can't really go wrong with either. Ruger also makes hearty and well made guns. It's a matter of preference and taste with anything well made. As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors. If you are moving about, handguns offer a lot of advantages in moving freely and having a free hand as well. Long guns and shotguns are better once you have family members all assembled in one place.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Sigs and Berettas are both excellent and you can't really go wrong with either. Ruger also makes hearty and well made guns. It's a matter of preference and taste with anything well made.

Price as well. Some guns cost too much for me to justify especially if I'm going to get more than one.

As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors. If you are moving about, handguns offer a lot of advantages in moving freely and having a free hand as well. Long guns and shotguns are better once you have family members all assembled in one place.

You're right. But for me it comes down to what's the best weapon to effectively deter or eliminate a threat with as little effort as possible. Aiming a pistol is harder than pointing a shotgun when you're in a pinch.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Price as well. Some guns cost too much for me to justify especially if I'm going to get more than one.



You're right. But for me it comes down to what's the best weapon to effectively deter or eliminate a threat with as little effort as possible. Aiming a pistol is harder than pointing a shotgun when you're in a pinch.

Most shootings occur at distances of 11 feet or less. Legally speaking, if you shoot someone from a distance of 25 feet or greater, you will be hard pressed to show an individual was a threat to you unless they also had a gun and there was an imminent threat to your life. This is if you are to claim self defense although some states have made it easier for home owners to do just that.

Having said that, most individuals can shoot accurately at that range with a handgun with little in the way of training. Further, most assailants seeing a gun in your hand won't stick around to see how proficient you are with a handgun. It is incumbent upon any individual who incorporates the use of a firearm in the protection of their homes and families to be proficient in their use and take steps to learn how to shoot accurately not to mention how to safely secure them when not in use.

It makes sense if one is going to use a weapon to protect their home or family, to implement them as part of a well thought out and defined strategy and flexible enough to cover contingencies. This includes gathering places for family members, primary and secondary in the face of threats. It should also include ways of contacting law enforcement for assistance. Should the phone lines be cut, there should be alternate ways of doing that Thankfully, with cell phones, this isn't an issue.

As you said, the weapon you choose should be within your comfort level of utilizing it for self defense.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Having said that, most individuals can shoot accurately at that range with a handgun with little in the way of training. Further, most assailants seeing a gun in your hand won't stick around to see how proficient you are with a handgun. It is incumbent upon any individual who incorporates the use of a firearm in the protection of their homes and families to be proficient in their use and take steps to learn how to shoot accurately not to mention how to safely secure them when not in use.

This is exactly why I keep my shotgun around because I have family members that are home often that are not strong in the skills required. But, a pump shotgun is among the simplest weapons to use.

Teaching somebody who has barely held a weapon previously how to fire a shotgun is much easier than teaching somebody to fire a pistol even though, like you said, it's usually close ranges.

Where I live at home, house break-ins are VERY rare but they do happen. So I don't put a whole lot of time and energy into this sort of thing. I just keep my shotgun around with some 00 Buck nearby on the off-chance I'd need it.

Where I live now, is another story. I, unfortunately, do not live in a housing situation that allows me to keep weapons. So I will likely be getting a permit and keeping one in the car or something like that. I'll have to check on specifics. Missouri just recently relaxed a bunch of gun laws so with the new changes I'll have to do some homework.

Responsibility and accountability is everything.

[Red October1984]

On an entirely different note, I just wanted to share another beautiful firearm out on the market that I've been drooling over lately.

Springfield Armory M1A

In the age of the AR platform, I'm constantly reminded how much I like the old way better. I love bolt action rifles and I like battle rifles. 5.56 isn't versatile enough to do what I want to do and this rifle and it's other variations are, in my mind, perfect. Yes, AR platform has all kinds of variations and customizability etc etc. It's all unnecessary bells and whistles.

This rifle is right in the middle of the old and the new.

I just thought i'd share it. Prices are insane for these so it's still a ways off.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I have a number of firearms, but I'd like to get one which is more modern for home defense. Unfortunately, one isn't legally allowed to be armed in the People's Republic of Maryland outside one's home.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I have a number of firearms, but I'd like to get one which is more modern for home defense. Unfortunately, one isn't legally allowed to be armed in the People's Republic of Maryland outside one's home.

Move south across the Mason-Dixon, what you save in taxes can buy you a new Springfield M1A every year.

I just counted my firearms, and I now believe I have a shopping problem.

[em2nought]

I couldn't resist, I think I have a problem. At least I have something at the end of the day unlike lap dances. We'll you hope you never have something after a lap dance.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors.

If you are in a home defense situation, you shouldn't be going through your house room to room opening doors. You should be in a defensive position waiting for the police to arrive. Let them to the room clearing.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Platapus

If you are in a home defense situation, you shouldn't be going through your house room to room opening doors. You should be in a defensive position waiting for the police to arrive. Let them to the room clearing.

That's all well and good if you are alone. If you have family members in various bedrooms, both upstairs and down, then you need to be able to move about to gather them in one place. Once everyone is in one place in a defensible position, then I would advocate the use of more powerful long guns in defense to cover a door while contacting law enforcement for assistance. I'm also not confident in law enforcement in that situation being able to tell the bad guys from the home owners.

I also prefer to do my own house clearing and rely on my own skills and knowledge of the layout of my home. Let law enforcement secure the perimeter. Further, if one lives in a rural area, It may well be a long wait of 25 minutes or more for law enforcement to arrive. This is an eternity to one so besieged. If everyone is assembled in one place and safe and secure, then it makes sense to take your advice.

[Red October1984]

Went and looked at a few guns the other day.

Looked at a few Berettas, some Sig, and a new brand I hadn't heard of...EAA...which to my understanding is just CZ clones. PX4 Storm looks like a solid candidate for what I want instead of the 96. PX4 felt way better in my hands and it's not as big and bulky while still offering the caliber I want and it has that cool Beretta recoil-management thing where the barrel rotates.

I guess I'm just weird but I refuse to get a Glock. They're reliable but not for me. FN's are too pricey. Springfields too. And I could never justify paying nearly 1000$ for a 1911.

I'll probably get the PX4 in a .40 for a carry gun and then a cheap 9mm Italian surplus 92S (which can be had for 250$ a piece right now) for goofing off in the yard.

[Red October1984]

Reviving my thread once again to talk about AR's.

I hate the idea of buying an AR. It's completely impractical for anything except target shooting. Without training you aren't realistically going to use one for home defense and you're likely never going to need it in a "Red Dawn" situation nor will you ever realistically use it when the ATF kick down your door to take it from you.

Why pay 1000$ for a target gun? I know they've dropped in price quite a lot recently and if you build one you can have the rifle together for under 500$ if you do it right.

But for the same price you can have a heavier caliber more useful for hunting or a shotgun you can use for home defense.

For years I have opposed the idea of buying an AR just because nobody *needs* one. I can understand wanting one, but I never understood why some people pay so much to get a 5.56/.223 high pressure toothpick launcher.

Until...

I discovered the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. I've been doing a lot of shooting lately. Lot of AR's, and primarily pistols now that I'm getting close to purchasing one. A friend brought up this cartridge and showed me his full rifle 6.5G AR bought for under 500$. I said "Oh no, this is too good to be true. You can't be serious." ...but google says otherwise.

This confused me, seeing as 5.56 is a ridiculous caliber for the hunter and casual shooter I am and 7.62x51 AR's cost well over 900-1000$. How is this intermediate caliber rifle so cheap?

Apparently the only major difference from a 5.56 AR is the BCG, barrel and magazine? And it outperforms 5.56 and shoots flatter than 7.62x51?

I guess I will be buying a pistol AND an AR this year. Anybody else have experience with the 6.5G? And more importantly....why have I never heard of this caliber until now?

[ikalugin]

why have I never heard of this caliber until now?

It -is- a fairly popular alternative cartidge.

But then i have little need for it, I use 223/243 for recreational shooting and 9.3mm mauser and .300winmag for hunting.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

It -is- a fairly popular alternative cartidge.

Maybe I've just been living under a rock because of my bias against the AR platform.

But then i have little need for it, I use 223/243 for recreational shooting and 9.3mm mauser and .300winmag for hunting.

I have a .223 bolt action for goofing off with on a budget, but I've been hunting with my Mosin-Nagant and a .30-06 for years.

I guess you do some long range hunting then?