General questions about SH5 and Mods

[Rosomaha]

Originally Posted by gap

...

I.e. TDW still changed some "codes” to solve the problem, but for some ships it was necessary for some reason to additionally change the ZON? Was anything known about the reason?
----------------------------------------------------
From the AI-boat tests, if anyone is interested:
Test mission in the open ocean. To the torpedoes for myself, I tied the axes-markers for better visibility when testing. Tested as usual on the game without mods.

In the close area:
AI-boats U-Class (on a surface, Allies)
Merchant Ship (Axis)
Cruiser (Axis)

The submarine immediately sank when the Cruiser approached without raising the periscopes. She then changed course to distance of him.

 

I, without surfacing, began to pursue her, keeping at a distance. After some time, I caught up with her from the stern, the AI-boat seemed to notice my presence, turned, and settled in parallel, raising the periscope. I understand that it was just a combination of certain scripts that worked, but from the outside it looked natural, as if she was watching me and trying to identify my Sub.)

 

Several times she twisted in my direction, getting closer, I even thought that she wanted to try to go to battering ram, but when I, too, turned to meet her - she dodged in the other direction and began to leave me.

 

The next time the boat tried to just get away from me. At some point, she surfaced. Me too, chasing her from a distance. The AI boat didn’t react to me for a while, but then it made a U-turn for 180 and. Yes, I waited for what I wanted! She fired a round of torpedoes in my direction.

 

Of 8 torpedoes. It's strange that there are so many, because she has 4 torpedo tubes. Most likely, the number increased artificially for the game, due to an attempt to increase the probability of hitting. I deliberately did not maneuver in any way to assess the accuracy of the AI attack. 2 out of 8 torpedoes were out of order, having a premature detonation. And 2 torpedoes went astern, it was close enough. The rest went further aft. Perhaps if I started maneuvers, I would have lost speed and just might have stumbled upon a torpedo pack.

 

The surfaced boat never attacked me with a deck gun.

In general, I liked the behavior of the AI-boats. This is not like the usual and habitual actions of other units. Their obvious characteristic is that they act with caution. And this is a very appropriate and useful feature for submarines. They periodically dive and emerge. Unique implementation of AI-submarines and the first such successful one among the entire Parts of SilentHunter... It would also be good if they fired a cannon

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

I.e. TDW still changed some "codes” to solve the problem, but for some ships it was necessary for some reason to additionally change the ZON? Was anything known about the reason?

Exactly. The reason was explained by the same TDW in this post:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...&postcount=325

In short: magnetic detonation requires collision spheres to protrude from ship's 3D profile, but some of them don't meet this requirement. Check kapuhy's post below for a visula example of that.

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

From the AI-boat tests, if anyone is interested:
Test mission in the open ocean. To the torpedoes for myself, I tied the axes-markers for better visibility when testing. Tested as usual on the game without mods.

I enjoyed this report and I am glad to learn that at least something is working in the dumbed down submarine AI.

AI submarine units not using their guns when surfaced is a known problem. Going by TDW's assertions, this is not fixable but who knows? Maybe one day we will dioscover something... As far as you know, do SHIII/SHIV submarines have the same problem?

[Jeff-Groves]

SH3/4 AI Subs on the surface are using a Ship's AI. Not a Submarine AI controller as I believe there is no good Submarine AI for those versions.

I think if you try to use a stock Player Sub as an AI Sub they just work on the surface and don't do anything except follow way points?

Place one under water and they just float to the surface if I recall correctly.

[Rosomaha]

Originally Posted by gap

I enjoyed this report and I am glad to learn that at least something is working in the dumbed down submarine AI.

gap, what the hell? Is it because I called the SHV AI of Subchasers stupid?
This is not news I think. This was noted in the reviews since the release of the game. Tell me where I'm wrong. Unfortunately, the release SHV came out unfinished, it can be considered interrupted at the production stage, the product, it is not surprising that many things do not work well or do not work at all. You've been in the SH5 theme longer than I have, and you probably know all this even better. I hope a lot of things have been fixed in the mods, I haven't even tried a lot yet. I'm scolding something in SH5 and at the same time admire the beautiful Environment, I see a more promising system of fx-effects that was not used in full force, etc...

I haven't returned to the SHIII/SHIV files in a long time. If I remember correctly, the submarines of the former SH Parts do not have problems with small arms, they do not differ in behavior from the rest of the fleet, since they are a regular AI-ship in configuration. Firing torpedoes is simulated by defrauding firing from dummy-guns, through the flash particle generators generate torpedoes or something like that. Only in SHV there has a working cmdr_AISubmarine controller.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Only in SHV there has a working cmdr_AISubmarine controller.

Correct. And it can be told to FireCannon.
If the basic controller for FireCannon is broken?
That is hard coded and don't know how that can be fixed.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

SH3/4 AI Subs on the surface are using a Ship's AI. Not a Submarine AI controller as I believe there is no good Submarine AI for those versions.

I think if you try to use a stock Player Sub as an AI Sub they just work on the surface and don't do anything except follow way points?

Place one under water and they just float to the surface if I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

gap, what the hell? Is it because I called the SHV AI of Subchasers stupid?
This is not news I think. This was noted in the reviews since the release of the game. Tell me where I'm wrong. Unfortunately, the release SHV came out unfinished, it can be considered interrupted at the production stage, the product, it is not surprising that many things do not work well or do not work at all. You've been in the SH5 theme longer than I have, and you probably know all this even better. I hope a lot of things have been fixed in the mods, I haven't even tried a lot yet. I'm scolding something in SH5 and at the same time admire the beautiful Environment, I see a more promising system of fx-effects that was not used in full force, etc...

I haven't returned to the SHIII/SHIV files in a long time. If I remember correctly, the submarines of the former SH Parts do not have problems with small arms, they do not differ in behavior from the rest of the fleet, since they are a regular AI-ship in configuration. Firing torpedoes is simulated by defrauding firing from dummy-guns, through the flash particle generators generate torpedoes or something like that. Only in SHV there has a working cmdr_AISubmarine controller.

Thank you for your feedback guys.

If I have not misunderstood you in previous chapters of the SH saga AI submarines are actually ships in disguise. As that, they have no problems using their guns, but they don't use torpedoes nor they submerge.

I hoped we could have looked into them for answers to SH5 submarine AI limits, but that' obviously not the case

[Jeff-Groves]

The AI in Player Subs for SH3 uses cmdr_AIMerchant.
Scanning every file in SH3 tells me ONLY the Submarine files make that call!
So there is no AIMerchant controller!
Now AIFight is in the SHSim.act file.
Figure it out from there!

SH4 does it differently!
It has an AIFight controller linked to the Subs.
OM failed to see this on that Mod.

SH5 is kind of like SH4 with the same AI controllers with the added scripting abilities.