Guides and Training

[Rockin Robbins]

Shawn, if you're missing ahead, you most certainly have the speed estimated too high for some reason. Missing ahead is not easy to do, so it is the easiest to diagnose. Go over how to determine the target speed again.

Identifying by keyboard command is part of Trigger Maru and my TMOkeys mod, where you lock on a target, press shift-i and a handy crewman eventually id's the target. Identifying the target is NOT NECESSARY with the Dick O'Kane procedure, and was only done to make the video more interesting. People enjoy plugging a tanker!

Keep at it. You know you're close to making it work. Good shooting so far!

[GulfXray]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Shawn, if you're missing ahead, you most certainly have the speed estimated too high for some reason. Missing ahead is not easy to do, so it is the easiest to diagnose. Go over how to determine the target speed again.

You are spot on RR!

I replayed the mis-ahead situation multiple times trying all kinds of different things. I finally realized that the only possible issue was the speed setting and what I was doing wrong that was affecting the speed setting...

Basically, I would get the speed very early and plot the course. From that I would rush ahead and get into position. Since it was night, I got sloppy and stayed on the surface where they spotted me and started the lazy zig-zag and ping away at me so I would dive to periscope depth. Once it finally dawned on me (took a a while) that the zig-zag was messing up the solution, I re-measured their speed in the zig-zag and it was 50% of what I had before. I adjusted the new speed, an viola! What a dope!

Side note, I actually seem to miss less (rarely) and have far fewer duds now then when I played with auto targeting! Setting up for the manual DOK is second nature now - need to work on the sonar only...

Now I just need to learn the best places to aim so I don't use so many torpedoes per ship...

[Rockin Robbins]

Generally, I'll allocate two per target, one a quarter of the way back from the bow or aimed at the first crane and the second a quarter of the way forward of the stern or at the aft crane. If that doesn't sink 'em it stops them to be mopped up later.

[ichso]

Hi,
I think you all know the problem of setting up an attack when your target is still far away. AoB can be estimated roughly at best and therefore the ship's course also.
Without radar for long distance range estimation you would usually have to get pretty close (something about medium range) before you can make any precise assumptions about your target's movement. Here is a little workaround, that will allows one to estimate the target course when it is still far away. It's more like a little trick than a complex technique so it might be well known already. But let's start:

I got in front of the little convoy to do the rest of the approach from beneath the surface. The approach was already on the way for ~20min now.


First thing to do is to mark your own position on some empty spot on the map and use it as starting point for your observations.

Keep course, take a reading of the ship's bearing (don't forget to calculate true bearing from that) and draw a line from your position onwards in the direction of the true bearing to target. The length doesn't matter as we don't know the range to the ship yet.

From all the previous observations when getting in front of your target on the surface or from using passive sonar you should have already gotten an idea how fast the ship is traveling. Then you approximate it's speed which is mostly a thing of experience values here.
You should be able to tell whether it is moving at fast, medium or slow speed. But what that means for the actual ship depends on your judgement. A slow moving passenger/freighter convoy for instance, I would estimate as ~6.5kn from my previous experiences, so I'm using this value here.

You then wait a fixed period of time. In this example I'm using 5 minutes.
Use the stopwatch and after this time expired let the stopwatch keep running. Otherwise you won't be able to continue tracking your own movements afterwards.
While doing this there's enough time to estimate and draw you position after 5min. Here I'm moving at slow speed underwater = ~1kn, meaning that I will travel ~150y (heading south).

When the 5min have passed, take the second reading and draw another line only now originating from your new position.

So far nothing new. What I'm gonna use now is the fact that the target's speed will have it travel ~1100 yards during this time. See the nomograph on the right for this.
Now, with both bearing lines in place you only need to pick *any* spot on the first line and draw a line that will end on the second bearing line and has the lengh of 1100y.

Note that the first spot you picked there is most likely not the actual position of the target (relative to yours) because we don't make any attempt to get the range yet. The only thing that's important here is that the speed estimation is roughly correct. (And that your drawings are o.k. of course ).
But after encountering many many freighters at a speed of ~6.5kn (when moving at slow) you would accept this as a reasonable base for these estimations.

Here is an image of my in-game nav map to show what I mean.


The small line with length 150y is the way I travelled during those 5 mins and the lower circle shows the spot I picked arbitrarily for the target ship.
The target's course line reads something like 310° and when the vessel gets close enough to do a reliable range estimation you can draw it's real course line (relative to your position at least).

Knowing the course allows you to position yourself precisely, set a course perpendicular to the one of your target (for fast 90 or dick o kane).
Also the target AoB is then only one step away, especially when using an AoB-wheel.

Hope it's not all old news, just figured it might be helpful in some situations.

happy sailing

[Rockin Robbins]

Neat application for optical course determination. I might figure out a possible range of course, say from a convoy speed of seven knots to four or five knots. This would yield two possible convoy courses. Maneuvering yourself to take advantage of either, the real position compared to the two possibilities will allow you to refine your convoy's speed.

[swmicros]

Very good ichso, nice explanation. I have watched and studied the many tutorials on 100% realism but they (at least the ones I have discovered) all deal with the short range final delivery, not the long range approach. I could not figure out a reliable way to predict the target's course. I will definately try this out. (been schooled again!)

[Rockin Robbins]

I still say the "realism" and "map updates off" cannot be rightly put in the same sentence. The game's rendering of map updates off corresponds to driving your car with a paper bag over your head. It may be possible. It definitely would demonstrate great skill. But there is no realism there.

Real sub captains did not pause during the attack, go below to a blank chart and work out the entire solution themselves. Their radar gave MUCH more precise ranges than our radar screen without map updates. As a matter of fact, it was more accurate than when we have map updates ON because they had a digital range readout.

They also had many tools we do not have to work out solutions, bearing rate charts and plots, stadimeter plots, lots of specialized slide rules. We don't have the resources to be able to single-handedly run a plot and call it realism. Check out the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual and see what realism looks like. It ain't our game with map updates off.

It is true that the stock plotting system, while great for learing the ropes, gives the captain WAY too much information. But that is not a decent rationale for tossing the whole thing overboard. The TMO plotting system is the best we have at rendering appropriately selected information without providing "cheats." The only exception is the hardwired too-perfect rendering of positions of visual targets. If you just don't measure from them you'll be fine.

Hope SH5 does better!