US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

So what about this bullcrap from Clyde. I don't see how he can say that and keep a straight face.

Hate to break it to you. It is not an insurrection until someone is charged and found guilty of it.

[Buddahaid]

Close enough by definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurrection

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Close enough by definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurrection

Then I can only strongly suggest you run to D.C. as fast as you can with your Merriam Webster dictionary and enlighten the courts, and prosecutors with your findings.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Then I can only strongly suggest you run to D.C. as fast as you can with your Merriam Webster dictionary and enlighten the courts, and prosecutors with your findings.

Looks like they could use it.

[Rockstar]

You should already know my opinion on this. Each man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Agree or not with the reasons everyone had a right to be there and to peaceful protest. Those that are found guilty of breaking the law MUST be punished to it’s fullest extent. However it’s my opinion this committee is of no real use whatsoever to ‘we the people’. IMO it’s just another self serving government boondoggle and dog and pony show.

Meanwhile, as prices are rising and people are struggling to make ends meet, 4 million dead from a virus. I heard that poor lawyer and street activist from Chicago is planning a big bash for his 60th birthday at his new 30 acre estate, 11.75 million dollar 7,000 SQF mansion in Martha's Vineyard.

[Buddahaid]

Fine with me.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?...%20under%20the

Even the law uses the word as defined.

[Rockstar]

Again, in order for there to be an insurrection someone has to be charged and found guilty of it.

What people have been charged with are to name a few: aiding and abetting, conspiracy, obstruction, resisting arrest, theft, entering restricted areas, disorderly and disruptive conduct, assault, parading or picketing in a capitol building, violent entry, obstructing an official proceeding. Of the 591 people charged only 17 have entered guilty pleas.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ I take it the protests against police brutality (killing of Floyd) were not intended to overthrow the government or to kill anyone, let alone the (then) vice president Pence?

"[in 2020] Racial unrest, Polls have estimated that between 15 million and 26 million people have participated at some point in the demonstrations in the United States, making them the largest protests in United States history.

It was also estimated that between May 26 and August 22, around 93% of protests were "peaceful and nondestructive". According to several studies and analyses, protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful.

In protests that involved violence, violence was variously instigated by protesters, counter-protesters, or police, and police sometimes escalated confrontations."

You completely missed the point Catfish. The First amendment guarantees the right of assembly and redress of grievances. You also need to assess these incidents objectively. let me give you a hint, both BLM and Stop the Steal organizations had a right to rally and protest, both organizations illegally entered and vandalized government buildings and assaulted government personnel. Both organizations had active politicians acclaiming each organizations reasons for protesting. So as far as I can tell, the only reason for Congress to call the Jan 6th protest an insurrection is to deflect from the fact that they set the whole thing in motion in 2016 when they declared Trump an illegitimate President and vowed to remove him from office by any means necessary and then spent 4 years doing just that.

Fun Fact: the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest in Seattle (remember the Summer of Love?) was an actual insurrection, although it only lasted a month.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

You should already know my opinion on this. Each man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Agree or not with the reasons everyone had a right to be there and to peaceful protest. Those that are found guilty of breaking the law MUST be punished to it’s fullest extent. However it’s my opinion this committee is of no real use whatsoever to ‘we the people’. IMO it’s just another self serving government boondoggle and dog and pony show.

Meanwhile, as prices are rising and people are struggling to make ends meet, 4 million dead from a virus. I heard that poor lawyer and street activist from Chicago is planning a big bash for his 60th birthday at his new 30 acre estate, 11.75 million dollar 7,000 SQF mansion in Martha's Vineyard.

I'd be perfectly fine with jury nullification of the charges occurring for anyone who is sent to trial for wandering about the capitol on Jan 6th.

The problem is that federal prosecutions all too often aren't about the rule of law - they're about politics or punishing people who do things the feds don't like even if not unlawful. We're at the point where pretty much the entire *implementation* of the federal government needs to be done away with and a do-over needs to occur that gets back to first principles. The *intent* of the US form of government is solid, but it's been abused and corrupted by people "serving" in government who are in it only to serve themselves - and its exponentially gotten worse starting in the 1960s. The DoJ and FBI can't be trusted to go after people who break the law because they have been proven to have *instigated* the crimes they arrest peopke for. A big mouth internet tough guy who wants to kidnap a governor has no means of doing so until the FBI provides material support and encouragement, then they arrest the person they pushed into doing the illegal activity and then act as if they've just done great police work and stopped crimes from happening - that's no different than a firefighter who commits arson so that they can look good responding to the fire...

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by MaDef

You completely missed the point Catfish. The First amendment guarantees the right of assembly and redress of grievances. You also need to assess these incidents objectively. let me give you a hint, both BLM and Stop the Steal organizations had a right to rally and protest, both organizations illegally entered and vandalized government buildings and assaulted government personnel. Both organizations had active politicians acclaiming each organizations reasons for protesting.

Fair enough. I see your point, but for me protests even with looting cannot be compared to storming the Capitol trying to overthrow a democratic vote, imho this is a different scope.

Fun Fact: the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest in Seattle (remember the Summer of Love?) was an actual insurrection, although it only lasted a month.

Lol ok, but even here this was a protest:
"The zone was a self-organized space, without official leadership. Protesters united behind three main demands:
"Cut Seattle's $409-million police budget by 50 percent.
Shift funding to community programs and services in historically black communities.
Ensure that protesters would not be charged with crimes.""
You can discuss how much sense some of those demands made (), but it sure was not a planned plot to overthrow the constitution of the USA.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You can discuss how much sense some of those demands made (), but it sure was not a planned plot to overthrow the constitution of the USA.

You're not seriously claiming that Jan 6th was a planned plot to overthrow the US Constitution. What's next, you going to claim it was worse than 9-11? You wouldn't be the first...

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Fair enough. I see your point, but for me protests even with looting cannot be compared to storming the Capitol trying to overthrow a democratic vote, imho this is a different scope.

You watch to much CNN.

The Jan 6th "insurrection" was nothing more than a one-off protest that got out of hand. to describe it as anything different is hyperbole to increase ratings or political power period.

[Buddahaid]

I do think there was a plan by the militia groups to prevent the counting of electoral votes minimally. There were also people there looking for Pence and chanting hang Mike Pence and the like. There is plenty of cell phone video of that if you choose to watch it and after breaking into the building a threat like that must be taken seriously.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I do think there was a plan by the militia groups to prevent the counting of electoral votes minimally. There were also people there looking for Pence and chanting hang Mike Pence and the like. There is plenty of cell phone video of that if you choose to watch it and after breaking into the building a threat like that must be taken seriously.

Maybe, but if it was a plan it was a damned poor one. Unarmed, dispersed, no coordination. That's not a plan and i think the lack of charges against anyone for insurrection pretty much proves it. How do you have an insurrection and not have anyone to charge with insurrection?

[Buddahaid]

Watch this again.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/pol...upporters.html