The Revelation of Greta: no heavens behind the heavens - Page 9

STEED · 10-05-19, 12:40 PM

What makes me laugh are these protesters using smart phones, not very green.

Skybird · 10-05-19, 12:49 PM

^ Here in Münster I can see flocks of school kids demonstrating on Friday - and then moving in small groups to McDonalds.

Makes you wonder whether a future for our species really is desirable.

mapuc · 10-05-19, 05:02 PM

Another thing that I think sound a bit funny.

Now and then the Danish Government give the approval for building a offshore wind farm the latest shall when finished produce 800 MW.
and is expected to provide green electricity for 800,000 households.

This sound great if it works as planned.

I know people is trying to make those wind mill more effective.

What I haven't been reading or been hearing so much from is scientist trying to improve the things in the other end

The things we, the ordinary people use using electricity.

If they could do that, then this offshore wind farm could perhaps provide electricity for 1 million or more households.

Just a thought

Markus

Catfish · 10-05-19, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Another thing that I think sound a bit funny.
Now and then the Danish Government give the approval for building a offshore wind farm the latest shall when finished produce 800 MW.
and is expected to provide green electricity for 800,000 households. […] Markus

What do you think is 'negative' in becoming independent when it ccmes to energy?

JU_88 · 10-05-19, 05:34 PM

@ Markus, do you mean house hold electrical appliances becoming more energy efficient?
I'm pretty sure they are. it would be good if they found away to tackle or somehow recycle some of the waste heat energy that electrical goods produce though.
I'm not sure that even possible though.

Maybe we can find away to harvest the energy from our children? they seem to have an near infinite supply :P

mapuc · 10-05-19, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

What do you think is 'negative' in becoming independent when it ccmes to energy?

What i think is funny is that so far I have only heard and read about people/scientist trying to improve the effect on these wind, sun and water power

And not trying to improve the tools we use in our households.

An example My fridge use 240-something kw a year.

What if they could develop a fridge who only used 1/10 of this 240-something kw.

Denmark are independent-we have our own oil, which we sell most of. A little part of it is used here in Denmark,

We also buy electricity or oil from other countries it all depends on so much.
(I'm not so much into this economy-thing)

Markus

JU_88 · 10-05-19, 05:43 PM

Fridges have been around along time, for things like that maybe its about as good as it gonna get. anything required to cool or heat is always power hungry.
other appliances have become less hungry though, the TV, the humble light bulb etc.

mapuc · 10-05-19, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Fridges have been around along time, for things like that maybe its about as good as it gonna get. anything required to cool or heat is always power hungry.
other appliances have become less hungry though, the TV, the humble light bulb etc.

yes when it comes to tv.

My LED-tv only use 0.5 W in stand by and only 10 or was it 15 what when used.

And not to forget our light bulbs. Which made me remember an episode from the serie Beyond 2000. Here they showed some Japanese scientist testing the next generation light bulbs only using 0.1 to 0.8 w and giving better light than a 9 W LED light bulb.
How could I forget this and I was trying to remember these things before posting.

Markus

Buddahaid · 10-05-19, 08:30 PM

I like the new LED light bulbs. So much better than the compact fluorescent ones that were pushed on us. No glass to break. low consumption and bright.

Skybird · 10-06-19, 06:24 AM

Yes, LED has gone a logn way, but it still lacks in certain areas behind halogen and normal light bulbs. And too many low aulity, ba dlight LED still gets build and used for producing other devices. One must pay utmost attention when buyng LED, ther eis so very much crap LED light on the market as well. Most LED sold still have a way too high blueish colour, are too cold in light temperature as if they would make the living room comfortable.

Coloured LED lamps on the other hand also have a very strong tendasic setting even if shoowing colours like ornage or red that shoukld feel "warm". LED coloured lights often all feel cold and pale.

Nothing beats the warm, sun-like comfort of a low-watts halogen bulb, warm, gemütlich, friendly both in the eye and to the soul. The colour and wamrth of the sun, of fire, of amber in the coals. In iving rooms, that is what I want, not some ultra-bright blueish soac elight from a white dwarf. thats okay for work spaces maybe, corridors, but not for places where habitability and coziness count.

Skybird · 10-06-19, 06:30 AM

The energy consummation debate does not get decided in germany or Britain. But in India, china, africa with their exploding populations and exploding energy needs. Tell all those hundreds of millions and billions that they should stay poor to save climate! In Germany, allt he energy conservation polcies of the past twnety years did not change the fact that beside the savings in energy by the idnovidual the total level consumed still stayed in the rlam of where it was before. That is becasue so many more additonal energy consumi system were added. They may consume elss energy individually, but in total the growth of consuming systems neutralises the gains.

They now want to make the schemes even more comolciated and expoensove. the greenw ant to icnrease the costs for CO2 traidnf accpridng to Germany latets plan by a facotr of SIX.

It will not work. I hreby predict it. In 15, 20 years somebody will compoare the numbers and say: it did not work as planned. Promised. And that is just Germany. But everybody will be poorer, due to the exploding costs caused by these stupid schemes. And the state, this great planner and mastermind behind the mess, will feel ever more indispensable in mediating this chaos.

JU_88 · 10-06-19, 07:24 AM

When approached many of the extinction rebellion types don't want to talk about India and china. Because they are often well to do middle class progressive yoga types :P who are wary of 'cultural relativism'.
The mantra of: its ok to dump on your own culture but certainly not on others, lest you be compared with a foaming at the mouth ignorant UKIPPY nationalist.
But then it can also come across as the 'bigotry of low expectations', when you hold another culture or nation to a lower standard than your own, it still suggests you think you are superior to them - and are simply trying to be nice about it.

but anyway, depending on the media outlet they may choose to only televise the stupid ones who don't really think these things through.

Anyway the best arguments I heard from them on this was that your average western child has a larger carbon foot print that than your average eastern adult. abit difficult to quantify that even if it sounds quite believable.
Its not reasonable to expect them to 'go and protest in india or china' as some suggest. We are still doing our share of damage, even if we are fewer, plus western leaders and corporations still possess a hell of alot of clout in the world.

I did see in one conversation, an activist challenged on being 'pro open borders', since they are then often advocating for unlimited people from lesser polluting nations, to migrate to one where they will end up making a much bigger carbon foot print. Which caused them to back pedal somewhat. Even though that could actually be flipped back to supporting the protest for lower carbon emissions here in western nations - more than it would for simply 'shutting the gates' lol, but i guess they didn't think quickly enough.
But what ever, 'no migrants' and 'unlimited migrant's' are both very stupid and unreasonable positions to hold.

Jimbuna · 10-06-19, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I like the new LED light bulbs. So much better than the compact fluorescent ones that were pushed on us. No glass to break. low consumption and bright.

Most definitely, have them in most of the rooms in the house.

mapuc · 10-07-19, 11:18 AM

Going back to the discussion about this Climate change.

I wonder why people is standing so close to the picture which only makes them see a little part of it.

I would recommend people to take 5-6 step back to see the whole picture

Markus

Skybird · 10-07-19, 02:11 PM

Maybe they dont do it because they made themselves believing that they already stand with their backs against a wall.

10-05-19, 12:40 PM	#121
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	What makes me laugh are these protesters using smart phones, not very green. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

10-05-19, 12:49 PM	#122
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,500 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	^ Here in Münster I can see flocks of school kids demonstrating on Friday - and then moving in small groups to McDonalds. Makes you wonder whether a future for our species really is desirable. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-05-19, 08:30 PM	#129
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,560 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	I like the new LED light bulbs. So much better than the compact fluorescent ones that were pushed on us. No glass to break. low consumption and bright. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

10-06-19, 06:24 AM	#130
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,500 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Yes, LED has gone a logn way, but it still lacks in certain areas behind halogen and normal light bulbs. And too many low aulity, ba dlight LED still gets build and used for producing other devices. One must pay utmost attention when buyng LED, ther eis so very much crap LED light on the market as well. Most LED sold still have a way too high blueish colour, are too cold in light temperature as if they would make the living room comfortable. Coloured LED lamps on the other hand also have a very strong tendasic setting even if shoowing colours like ornage or red that shoukld feel "warm". LED coloured lights often all feel cold and pale. Nothing beats the warm, sun-like comfort of a low-watts halogen bulb, warm, gemütlich, friendly both in the eye and to the soul. The colour and wamrth of the sun, of fire, of amber in the coals. In iving rooms, that is what I want, not some ultra-bright blueish soac elight from a white dwarf. thats okay for work spaces maybe, corridors, but not for places where habitability and coziness count. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-06-19, 06:30 AM	#131
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,500 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The energy consummation debate does not get decided in germany or Britain. But in India, china, africa with their exploding populations and exploding energy needs. Tell all those hundreds of millions and billions that they should stay poor to save climate! In Germany, allt he energy conservation polcies of the past twnety years did not change the fact that beside the savings in energy by the idnovidual the total level consumed still stayed in the rlam of where it was before. That is becasue so many more additonal energy consumi system were added. They may consume elss energy individually, but in total the growth of consuming systems neutralises the gains. They now want to make the schemes even more comolciated and expoensove. the greenw ant to icnrease the costs for CO2 traidnf accpridng to Germany latets plan by a facotr of SIX. It will not work. I hreby predict it. In 15, 20 years somebody will compoare the numbers and say: it did not work as planned. Promised. And that is just Germany. But everybody will be poorer, due to the exploding costs caused by these stupid schemes. And the state, this great planner and mastermind behind the mess, will feel ever more indispensable in mediating this chaos. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-05-19, 05:02 PM	#123
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,891 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Another thing that I think sound a bit funny. Now and then the Danish Government give the approval for building a offshore wind farm the latest shall when finished produce 800 MW. and is expected to provide green electricity for 800,000 households. This sound great if it works as planned. I know people is trying to make those wind mill more effective. What I haven't been reading or been hearing so much from is scientist trying to improve the things in the other end The things we, the ordinary people use using electricity. If they could do that, then this offshore wind farm could perhaps provide electricity for 1 million or more households. Just a thought Markus

10-05-19, 05:34 PM	#125
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,727 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	@ Markus, do you mean house hold electrical appliances becoming more energy efficient? I'm pretty sure they are. it would be good if they found away to tackle or somehow recycle some of the waste heat energy that electrical goods produce though. I'm not sure that even possible though. Maybe we can find away to harvest the energy from our children? they seem to have an near infinite supply :P

10-05-19, 05:43 PM	#127
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,727 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Fridges have been around along time, for things like that maybe its about as good as it gonna get. anything required to cool or heat is always power hungry. other appliances have become less hungry though, the TV, the humble light bulb etc.

10-06-19, 07:24 AM	#132
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,727 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	When approached many of the extinction rebellion types don't want to talk about India and china. Because they are often well to do middle class progressive yoga types :P who are wary of 'cultural relativism'. The mantra of: its ok to dump on your own culture but certainly not on others, lest you be compared with a foaming at the mouth ignorant UKIPPY nationalist. But then it can also come across as the 'bigotry of low expectations', when you hold another culture or nation to a lower standard than your own, it still suggests you think you are superior to them - and are simply trying to be nice about it. but anyway, depending on the media outlet they may choose to only televise the stupid ones who don't really think these things through. Anyway the best arguments I heard from them on this was that your average western child has a larger carbon foot print that than your average eastern adult. abit difficult to quantify that even if it sounds quite believable. Its not reasonable to expect them to 'go and protest in india or china' as some suggest. We are still doing our share of damage, even if we are fewer, plus western leaders and corporations still possess a hell of alot of clout in the world. I did see in one conversation, an activist challenged on being 'pro open borders', since they are then often advocating for unlimited people from lesser polluting nations, to migrate to one where they will end up making a much bigger carbon foot print. Which caused them to back pedal somewhat. Even though that could actually be flipped back to supporting the protest for lower carbon emissions here in western nations - more than it would for simply 'shutting the gates' lol, but i guess they didn't think quickly enough. But what ever, 'no migrants' and 'unlimited migrant's' are both very stupid and unreasonable positions to hold. Last edited by JU_88; 10-06-19 at 07:38 AM.

10-07-19, 11:18 AM	#134
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,891 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Going back to the discussion about this Climate change. I wonder why people is standing so close to the picture which only makes them see a little part of it. I would recommend people to take 5-6 step back to see the whole picture Markus

10-07-19, 02:11 PM	#135
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,500 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Maybe they dont do it because they made themselves believing that they already stand with their backs against a wall. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.