[REL] Fifi Enhancements for NYGM

[Tabris]

I've only just gotten this mega-mod installed, and I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far! Thanks to Fifi et al for all the hard work. I have yet to go out on patrol as I've never done manual targeting before and I need to learn it first. I've been trying to work out the system in a controlled environment. It isn't going well.

How on earth does manual ranging work??? I've tried both DGUI and ARB as included with Steel Coffins Edition and most of the time, the RAOBF tool is just...wrong? Here is my process for learning/testing it:

1) Target ships in port while the boat and targets are stationary
2) ask the Weapons Officer for target ID and a solution (using lower difficulty settings for this so the WE can be exact and to give us God's-eye view, but Manual Targeting is turned on as always) and/or check the target's range on the Nav map or TDC screen
3) check the RAOBF to see if I'm understanding it correctly, working "backwards" basically

Most of the time, when I match up the target's range and mast height on the "outer ring," it's just slightly off. i.e. the "inner ring" shows 1.7 but when I look at the target I see 1.4. Sometimes it's just completely wrong, like the RAOBF indicating 4.0 when with my eyes I'm seeing 6.0. Sometimes it's exactly right, but I get the feeling if the crosshair isn't calibrated, the "correct" answers are flukes anyway.

I've checked the various reticles available to me as they're all on a different scale and found that the red crosshair that pops up when you open the RAOBF is the least inaccurate compared to the values in the scope itself or in the UZO.

I'm not assuming there's something wrong with the mod itself - perhaps my installation of course though it seemed simple enough - rather I think I'm just missing something. Possibilities:
- This whole system is supposed to be inaccurate, as it's simulating a series of estimations based on guesses in a historical context
- Some or most ships in the recognition manual don't have correct mast heights (again, on purpose)

It's shockingly difficult to find discussion on this matter. Lots of very detailed instructional guides on calculating AOB and speed, which are assuming you have the range already, but the range is the only problem I'm having! I viewed the instructional videos found in "OLC's Video Tutorials" https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=1112 which make the RAOBF sound like a pretty accurate and foolproof tool, but I know we're talking about different mods here. I appreciate any advice anyone can give.

- Tabris

Awesome mod Have one question; how do you access the interior (machineroom, torpedoroom) ? I tried shift h, but it only open the radioroom hatch.

[Rod999]

Originally Posted by Tabris

I've only just gotten this mega-mod installed, and I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far! Thanks to Fifi et al for all the hard work. I have yet to go out on patrol as I've never done manual targeting before and I need to learn it first. I've been trying to work out the system in a controlled environment. It isn't going well.

How on earth does manual ranging work??? I've tried both DGUI and ARB as included with Steel Coffins Edition and most of the time, the RAOBF tool is just...wrong? Here is my process for learning/testing it:

1) Target ships in port while the boat and targets are stationary
2) ask the Weapons Officer for target ID and a solution (using lower difficulty settings for this so the WE can be exact and to give us God's-eye view, but Manual Targeting is turned on as always) and/or check the target's range on the Nav map or TDC screen
3) check the RAOBF to see if I'm understanding it correctly, working "backwards" basically

Most of the time, when I match up the target's range and mast height on the "outer ring," it's just slightly off. i.e. the "inner ring" shows 1.7 but when I look at the target I see 1.4. Sometimes it's just completely wrong, like the RAOBF indicating 4.0 when with my eyes I'm seeing 6.0. Sometimes it's exactly right, but I get the feeling if the crosshair isn't calibrated, the "correct" answers are flukes anyway.

I've checked the various reticles available to me as they're all on a different scale and found that the red crosshair that pops up when you open the RAOBF is the least inaccurate compared to the values in the scope itself or in the UZO.

I'm not assuming there's something wrong with the mod itself - perhaps my installation of course though it seemed simple enough - rather I think I'm just missing something. Possibilities:
- This whole system is supposed to be inaccurate, as it's simulating a series of estimations based on guesses in a historical context
- Some or most ships in the recognition manual don't have correct mast heights (again, on purpose)

It's shockingly difficult to find discussion on this matter. Lots of very detailed instructional guides on calculating AOB and speed, which are assuming you have the range already, but the range is the only problem I'm having! I viewed the instructional videos found in "OLC's Video Tutorials" https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=1112 which make the RAOBF sound like a pretty accurate and foolproof tool, but I know we're talking about different mods here. I appreciate any advice anyone can give.

- Tabris

I think the RAOBF was not used in WW2 or just at the beginning. Please, somebody correct me if I am wrong. Nevertheless, if you use it, be aware that Fifi's mod comes with inaccurate range estimations for WatchOfficer and Weapons Officer already activated (V16B1 Patch). So, that might be one reason why you are getting different results, when checking "backwards". I have been using the RAOBF myself sometimes and it seemed to work just fine, but I can't assure you that there won't be any flaw. Maybe somebody more experienced here in this forum can give you a better answer on that. Apart from that, a correct range estimation is not that important in setting up the TDC.

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by Grauwulf33333

Awesome mod Have one question; how do you access the interior (machineroom, torpedoroom) ? I tried shift h, but it only open the radioroom hatch.

If you are in a Type IX, there is no access to the aft compartments. Only Type VII can you access the whole interior fore and aft.

[Fifi]

HAPPY XMAS TO ALL, AND STAY SAFE FOR THE NEW YEAR COMING! (from the AK03 somewhere in the virtual seas)





(with moderation)

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

If you are in a Type IX, there is no access to the aft compartments. Only Type VII can you access the whole interior fore and aft.

Thanks for the quick reply!...I'm in a VII... Is shift H the 'magical' opening?

My setup; NYGM enhanced Steel Coffin edition V5 with ARB widegui V 0.4.
Already did several reinstalls, without succes. Followed the install instructions to the letter. The mod would be perfect with the interior added...

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by Grauwulf33333

Thanks for the quick reply!...I'm in a VII... Is shift H the 'magical' opening?

My setup; NYGM enhanced Steel Coffin edition V5 with ARB widegui V 0.4.
Already did several reinstalls, without succes. Followed the install instructions to the letter. The mod would be perfect with the interior added...

If you are asking for full interior, there is no full interior in NYGM from long time now. Way too much performance hit, and there is no chance that I will add it back.
The shortcuts are visible in the readme pdf, and when hitting F1

[yagura]

Originally Posted by Tabris

How on earth does manual ranging work???

As far as I know there have been errors in mast height data etc. in the recognition manual. I do not know if they have been fixed.

Regardless, I do not use the manual, except for special ships (e.g. well-known warships.) Mainly this is for historical accuracy, as it would have been very difficult to get good data on the vast amount of different ships etc. The captain would just see "a ship" in the periscope and would not really know what type it is, how large it is exactly and so on.

I estimate the mast height (some example defaults I use for different ship types: destroyers 20m, medium cargo ships 30m, large cargo ships 40m+) and compare that to how many vertical tick marks it is in height visually. I have created an attack table to compare these values according to the zoom level of the periscope to estimate the target range. The attack table I use is similar to the SH5 table attached to this message (NOT intended for SH3 use!) but I do not know where the original file is. I can not do it at this very moment, but later on I can recreate the attack table I use for DGUI (I do not remember how accurately it works for ARB.) It is not perfect but has served me well, and also when you are close to the target and/or not shooting a torpedo that has to turn too much the range to target is not too imporant to judge accurately.

I also estimate the target length for speed readings. You can similarly use visual estimations for RAOBF usage.

Originally Posted by Fifi

If you are asking for full interior, there is no full interior in NYGM from long time now. Way too much performance hit, and there is no chance that I will add it back.
The shortcuts are visible in the readme pdf, and when hitting F1

Thanks for clearing that up.
This is the youtube play where the interior is presented as part of the mod-config;



Like to know the mod that is used, and if performance is bad (agree, that's likely...), I will remove it.

Anyway, must say that this mod config is one of the best I encountered in my subsim career, since silent service....

[Tabris]

Originally Posted by Rod999

I think the RAOBF was not used in WW2 or just at the beginning. Please, somebody correct me if I am wrong.

no, I've heard that too, I think you're right, but I'll use whatever tools are built into the mod. It's more realistic than the stadiometer anyway.

Originally Posted by yagura

I estimate the mast height (some example defaults I use for different ship types: destroyers 20m, medium cargo ships 30m, large cargo ships 40m+)

thanks, I guess that's how I'll do it moving forward, might as well just get out there and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by yagura

(I do not remember how accurately it works for ARB.)

Like I said I did try both mods, and could not see any difference between the scale of the crosshair markings at all. If someone can say for sure that they're different, I'd be eager to hear it! There's a lot I like about DGUI but I'm really not a fan of how it handles the maneuvering instruments.

[Rod999]

[QUOTE=Tabris;2896678]no, I've heard that too, I think you're right, but I'll use whatever tools are built into the mod. It's more realistic than the stadiometer anyway.

I don't think there is any stadimeter in this mod anyway. There are other historically more accurate firing methods you might want to look into, the "Ausdampfverfahren" and "Auswanderungsverfahren", very well explained at https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=222377 and several Youtube videos.

[Aktungbby]

Grauwulf33333!

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Grauwulf33333!

Jawohl Herr Kaleun!

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Fifi

HAPPY XMAS TO ALL, AND STAY SAFE FOR THE NEW YEAR COMING! (from the AK03 somewhere in the virtual seas)





(with moderation)

Merry Christmas FiFi and many thanks for all the work of this year!

The best for 2024.

Fitzcarraldo

[Rod999]

Originally Posted by Fifi

HAPPY XMAS TO ALL, AND STAY SAFE FOR THE NEW YEAR COMING! (from the AK03 somewhere in the virtual seas)





(with moderation)

Same to you, Fifi! Can't wait for the next update. Absolutely amazing work! All the best for the New Year!
Rod