Ignore a specific fourm? - Page 2

Onkel Neal · 02-13-07, 02:04 PM

Yes. Whose finger clicks the mouse over the "General Topics forum" ?

That's who you need to talk to, the owner of the finger.

Ducimus · 02-13-07, 02:10 PM

Yeah yeah, nevermind that you can see whats being discussed on main page on this forum. Like i said, again, and again, its like a tragic car accident. You don't mean to stop and rubberneck, but you end up doing it anyway.

It's obvious you guys don't give a ****. That's fine. I guess if you can't beat em, join right?

Maybe ill make a poltiical and religious statement everytime i post too. Seems to be the norm around here for lots of people.

Onkel Neal · 02-13-07, 02:25 PM

Actually, I do give a ***** I consider this forum a clubhouse. I don't see a problem with a few guys doing a little arguing in the clubhouse, but I do pay attention when one guy says he's going to come into the clubhouse with a stick and murder in his eye. You best stay out of GT if it's giving you this much grief.

Ducimus · 02-13-07, 02:50 PM

You know it just occured to me, that if you just made a poltiical sub forum, you'd make EVERYBODY's life alot easier, and everybody would be happier.

- The religious and poltical debaters have a place to beat each other up tell their hearts content.

- Your job at moderating could become easier. With a dedicated sub forum to that stuff, you wouldnt have to watch the general forum (or even the poltiical forum) that much. If a thread in the general forum becomes to ploitical or religous, all you'd need to do is move it and its done with.

- and idiots like me woudlnt have to see it .

I dont see why thats so hard to do.

As for clubhouse, i have to wonder just how many users you get. Clubhouse is a term that brings to mind words like "small" and "exclusive". I dont know how many users you get, although im sure you do. My point is, if you get more and more users, the concept of "clubhouse" boarders on the realm of obsolecence. The more users you get, the less exclusive the club becomes. With the release of SH4, you may have a large influx of users and be forced to rexamine your policies. More people = more chances for things to escalate and blow up.

That i think is my final stance on this subject. I'm pretty sure you think im full of ****, and that's fine. You also wont have to worry about me with murder in my eye in your clubhouse. Frankly, with the crap that goes on in terms of open display of political and/or religious hatred, this isnt any kind of club id want to be in anyway, nor is it worth anymore of my time to try and fight it.

TteFAboB · 02-13-07, 02:59 PM

Konovalov has been doing hard work in the political threads, keeping the low blows in check. I think if you open the last 5 or 10 political threads you'll find Konovalov in there making Subsim a better place.

The last thread on religion was a major step forward from everything else I've seen. Next time religion starts from scratch I'm linking to that thread and saying: "no, you cannot return back down and ignore this standard we've reached. You must walk from this point onwards, even if all you can do is walk sideways." There's always hope.

Lastly, I agree with STEED. This GT is alot more civilized than any other forum I know. On the same instant I realized I had my share of blame on the locking of a thread, I've sent a Private Message to the parts involved and was glad to be able to clarify and set things straight. Such a brief conversation was sufficient to solve the issue.

I think if we give the right example, Konovalov, Gizzmoe, etc., we can create an atmosphere welcoming to civilization and hostile to barbarism. In this regard, you will be missed Ducimus.

Takeda Shingen · 02-13-07, 03:04 PM

Personally, I do not believe that sub-forums ever solve any problem. A political sub-forum will not alleviate the frequency and ferocity of any arguement. Rather, it only moves it from one place to another. I would have to moderate it whether it was either location, so the work load is not lessened. Ultimately, yes, it must fall on the individual user whether to read it or not. I know, Ducimus, that you do not like that particular answer, but it is, unfortunately, the only answer short of placing all of the offending political pundits on your ignore list.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that you are full of nonsense, nor do I feel that Neal has mocked you. I have known Mr. Stevens for a considerable length of time, and if he has been provocative or overtly hostile, this would be the first that I have heard of it. Rather, I believe that you are very passionate about your stance, and I appreciate it, as I know he does as well. Unfortunately, there is simply nothing that he can do.

CCIP · 02-13-07, 05:02 PM

I'm all for a sub-forum, and I would actually name it "Current Issues" to avoid the polarizing language. It would not alleviate the problems, sure, nor make the debates less bitter (realistically speaking) - but I think it would adress Konovalov's concern about scaring away new members from GT as a whole.

Oh, and just so people know where I'm coming from... I'm a graduate student whose major focus area is critical discourse analysis (and who will probably be writing a thesis soon on some form of highly politicized discourse). Naturally I am both fascinated by some of these debates, and also sometimes rather irked by the weasely language used (by both sides of the spectrum by the way). Likewise, I think it's safe to say that I'm in a definite minority politically, being a self-proclaimed socialist (in a fairly strong sense of the word).

I like Neal's view of it as a clubhouse though. I think this is important to have, as long as it's fairly moderated and kept from becoming a bashing ground. Look at it the other way - I mean, I know what the other way is. I have been in a community which had a general forum and then closed it, and watched some (almost all) of the most interesting people in the community move away and leave altogether. Sure it got rid of the troublemakers, but with the troublemakers went some valuable members (some of them, ironically, troublemakers by default) and a general sense of community.

I keep wanting to make a nice, fuzzy thread about the things we probably share in common here, but I guess I haven't gotten around to it yet. Because I find that some of the people I strongly disagree with are also very productive community members and overall good folks who do good things. I certainly don't want to come off as an 'enemy' to them, even despite the ideological differences we might have.

Where I see the problem is in ideological attacks. We've established that personal attacks on the forum are off-limits, but the problem is that there are constant (and perhaps inevitable) ideological attacks taking place that get people going no less than a personal attack would, perhaps more because they're so seemingly subversive and indirect. I don't think there is really a solution to that, except asking everyone to behave in a civil manner about it.

But let's not be naive. This is a forum, a place to discuss, not a place for ideological transformation. Let's try not to take these debates too too seriously. Use the "two goats on two mountains" analogy or "bark bark - woof woof" analogy, the fact is that you're dealing with things that probably go deeper than a forum discussion can change. It's no secret that ideologies construe people's thinking and define the arguments which are acceptable to them. Ultimately, we can have our rhetorical clash here and there, but I really don't see the point in taking it too far: if you wish to engage in ideological struggle, I think there are far more relevant places to do it than Subsim's General Topics. At the very least, if you insist - keep a measure of respect. Again, this goes for everyone collectively.

Ducimus · 02-13-07, 06:05 PM

That was a good post.

Honestly guys, ive burned my candle on both ends on this. Im' all burnt out on it. done. If i ever feel things get to an excessive level here, ill just leave. Cause it's just not worth my time.

Can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen someone here said. That, generally was my idea and motivation. But its hard to not stick your head in the kitchen to see what's cooking when you can smell it coming out the door when walking by it. People keep missing that point.

Personnally, im tired of current events. I read about it every day, i see it in the news, and on TV, and i'ts not why i come to subsim. I acutally come here to get away from that stuff. Foolish of me i know.

02-13-07, 02:59 PM	#20
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Konovalov has been doing hard work in the political threads, keeping the low blows in check. I think if you open the last 5 or 10 political threads you'll find Konovalov in there making Subsim a better place. The last thread on religion was a major step forward from everything else I've seen. Next time religion starts from scratch I'm linking to that thread and saying: "no, you cannot return back down and ignore this standard we've reached. You must walk from this point onwards, even if all you can do is walk sideways." There's always hope. Lastly, I agree with STEED. This GT is alot more civilized than any other forum I know. On the same instant I realized I had my share of blame on the locking of a thread, I've sent a Private Message to the parts involved and was glad to be able to clarify and set things straight. Such a brief conversation was sufficient to solve the issue. I think if we give the right example, Konovalov, Gizzmoe, etc., we can create an atmosphere welcoming to civilization and hostile to barbarism. In this regard, you will be missed Ducimus. __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

02-13-07, 05:02 PM	#22
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I'm all for a sub-forum, and I would actually name it "Current Issues" to avoid the polarizing language. It would not alleviate the problems, sure, nor make the debates less bitter (realistically speaking) - but I think it would adress Konovalov's concern about scaring away new members from GT as a whole. Oh, and just so people know where I'm coming from... I'm a graduate student whose major focus area is critical discourse analysis (and who will probably be writing a thesis soon on some form of highly politicized discourse). Naturally I am both fascinated by some of these debates, and also sometimes rather irked by the weasely language used (by both sides of the spectrum by the way). Likewise, I think it's safe to say that I'm in a definite minority politically, being a self-proclaimed socialist (in a fairly strong sense of the word). I like Neal's view of it as a clubhouse though. I think this is important to have, as long as it's fairly moderated and kept from becoming a bashing ground. Look at it the other way - I mean, I know what the other way is. I have been in a community which had a general forum and then closed it, and watched some (almost all) of the most interesting people in the community move away and leave altogether. Sure it got rid of the troublemakers, but with the troublemakers went some valuable members (some of them, ironically, troublemakers by default) and a general sense of community. I keep wanting to make a nice, fuzzy thread about the things we probably share in common here, but I guess I haven't gotten around to it yet. Because I find that some of the people I strongly disagree with are also very productive community members and overall good folks who do good things. I certainly don't want to come off as an 'enemy' to them, even despite the ideological differences we might have. Where I see the problem is in ideological attacks. We've established that personal attacks on the forum are off-limits, but the problem is that there are constant (and perhaps inevitable) ideological attacks taking place that get people going no less than a personal attack would, perhaps more because they're so seemingly subversive and indirect. I don't think there is really a solution to that, except asking everyone to behave in a civil manner about it. But let's not be naive. This is a forum, a place to discuss, not a place for ideological transformation. Let's try not to take these debates too too seriously. Use the "two goats on two mountains" analogy or "bark bark - woof woof" analogy, the fact is that you're dealing with things that probably go deeper than a forum discussion can change. It's no secret that ideologies construe people's thinking and define the arguments which are acceptable to them. Ultimately, we can have our rhetorical clash here and there, but I really don't see the point in taking it too far: if you wish to engage in ideological struggle, I think there are far more relevant places to do it than Subsim's General Topics. At the very least, if you insist - keep a measure of respect. Again, this goes for everyone collectively. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

02-13-07, 02:04 PM	#16
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Yes. Whose finger clicks the mouse over the "General Topics forum" ? That's who you need to talk to, the owner of the finger.

02-13-07, 02:10 PM	#17
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Yeah yeah, nevermind that you can see whats being discussed on main page on this forum. Like i said, again, and again, its like a tragic car accident. You don't mean to stop and rubberneck, but you end up doing it anyway. It's obvious you guys don't give a ****. That's fine. I guess if you can't beat em, join right? Maybe ill make a poltiical and religious statement everytime i post too. Seems to be the norm around here for lots of people.

02-13-07, 02:25 PM	#18
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Actually, I do give a ***** I consider this forum a clubhouse. I don't see a problem with a few guys doing a little arguing in the clubhouse, but I do pay attention when one guy says he's going to come into the clubhouse with a stick and murder in his eye. You best stay out of GT if it's giving you this much grief.

02-13-07, 02:50 PM	#19
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	You know it just occured to me, that if you just made a poltiical sub forum, you'd make EVERYBODY's life alot easier, and everybody would be happier. - The religious and poltical debaters have a place to beat each other up tell their hearts content. - Your job at moderating could become easier. With a dedicated sub forum to that stuff, you wouldnt have to watch the general forum (or even the poltiical forum) that much. If a thread in the general forum becomes to ploitical or religous, all you'd need to do is move it and its done with. - and idiots like me woudlnt have to see it . I dont see why thats so hard to do. As for clubhouse, i have to wonder just how many users you get. Clubhouse is a term that brings to mind words like "small" and "exclusive". I dont know how many users you get, although im sure you do. My point is, if you get more and more users, the concept of "clubhouse" boarders on the realm of obsolecence. The more users you get, the less exclusive the club becomes. With the release of SH4, you may have a large influx of users and be forced to rexamine your policies. More people = more chances for things to escalate and blow up. That i think is my final stance on this subject. I'm pretty sure you think im full of ****, and that's fine. You also wont have to worry about me with murder in my eye in your clubhouse. Frankly, with the crap that goes on in terms of open display of political and/or religious hatred, this isnt any kind of club id want to be in anyway, nor is it worth anymore of my time to try and fight it.

02-13-07, 03:04 PM	#21
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Personally, I do not believe that sub-forums ever solve any problem. A political sub-forum will not alleviate the frequency and ferocity of any arguement. Rather, it only moves it from one place to another. I would have to moderate it whether it was either location, so the work load is not lessened. Ultimately, yes, it must fall on the individual user whether to read it or not. I know, Ducimus, that you do not like that particular answer, but it is, unfortunately, the only answer short of placing all of the offending political pundits on your ignore list. I don't believe that anyone thinks that you are full of nonsense, nor do I feel that Neal has mocked you. I have known Mr. Stevens for a considerable length of time, and if he has been provocative or overtly hostile, this would be the first that I have heard of it. Rather, I believe that you are very passionate about your stance, and I appreciate it, as I know he does as well. Unfortunately, there is simply nothing that he can do.

02-13-07, 06:05 PM	#23
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	That was a good post. Honestly guys, ive burned my candle on both ends on this. Im' all burnt out on it. done. If i ever feel things get to an excessive level here, ill just leave. Cause it's just not worth my time. Can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen someone here said. That, generally was my idea and motivation. But its hard to not stick your head in the kitchen to see what's cooking when you can smell it coming out the door when walking by it. People keep missing that point. Personnally, im tired of current events. I read about it every day, i see it in the news, and on TV, and i'ts not why i come to subsim. I acutally come here to get away from that stuff. Foolish of me i know.