Making sub models in SH5.

[maillemaker]

Hi.

I am interested in making new submarine models for Silent Hunter 5, such as the Type IX and the Type XXI.

What software would one use to make such models?

What software was used to make SH3 models?

Thanks,
Steve

[gap]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Hi.

I am interested in making new submarine models for Silent Hunter 5, such as the Type IX and the Type XXI.

What software would one use to make such models?

What software was used to make SH3 models?

Thanks,
Steve

Hi Steve, no idea what program devs used for modelling game 3D objects and units. 3ds Max or Maya probably. For the level of detail we need in game, Blender or Wings3D are well-suited too, and they are free. Personally, among them I prefer Wings3D due to its rather basic but user-friendly interface. Another program I use mostly for post-processing my 3D projects (automatic polygon reduction, backing of texture maps on top of the model, various operations with vertices, edges and faces unsupported by W3D, etc.) is Softimage Mod Tool, a free version of Autodesk Softimage. Lastly, when your model is ready and textures, you will need TDW's GR2 Editor. It is an unofficial tool and due to the unks of the GR2 format, it got some limitations, but as of now this is the one program we have for getting our models in game.

The programs above are more than you need for a start. Stick in mind that playable units are hardcoded in game, so atm we can only have new AI controlled subs. A while back Targor Avelany was working on a type IX model, and judging from the screenshots he posted in the WIP thread, the voat was pretty close to completion, but never released. Maybe you can PM Targor before you go through the hassle of modelling a type IX from scratch.

For any other help, I am here

[Jeff-Groves]

Mostly 3DS Max 2008 and XSI were used.
XSI does a better AO burn and the free version is way better then Max at AO.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Mostly 3DS Max 2008 and XSI were used.
XSI does a better AO burn and the free version is way better then Max at AO.

Hi Jeff, nice to see you around!

Yep XSI/ModTool is the program I am using for baking my AO maps. The program can be a bit confusing at the beginning, but nothing compared to Blender.
By the way, have you read that they are discontinuing it?

[Jeff-Groves]

The last release of Softimage was April of 2014.
Seems most features were rolled into newer versions of Max and/or Maya.
I rolled into a free version of Houdini but have not really had time to fully use/learn it.
Topogun is another I'd like to check out. If I like it?
At $100 bucks it would be a good deal.

[Targor Avelany]

Phew... It has been a very while all, good to see some old faces )

In regards to creating the models of subs: the problem is not really the creation of them: if you can do stuff in 3d no matter what the program is you can make a sub model no problem. The real problem is to make it properly work in SH5, import it, assign all the proper stuff...
GR2 editor is an amazing program and I will have huge respect for TDW for the rest of my life probably for making such an amazing thing, but it is not finished. Last time I've read up on his replies on the GR2 editor he mentioned that he found that there are few things that he doesnt' like about it and found a bit of mistakes, etc and he has to recharge to work on it again.

But even with unfinished and somewhat tricky way of working with it I have been playing around even while being very very away (what is it, almost a year? more?) on the implementation of subs.

So far the best I can do is to somewhat convert a VII AI sub into IX AI sub. That is, to be honest, without creating the IX sub from scratch, but just taking it out of SH3 or SH4.

[gap]

What about your type IX project, Targor? IIRC you were modelling it from scratch, and from what I could see from your last screenies, it looked amazing and it was quite in advanced stage of development

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

What about your type IX project, Targor? IIRC you were modelling it from scratch, and from what I could see from your last screenies, it looked amazing and it was quite in advanced stage of development

The model itself on those screenies was taken from SH3/SH4.
The actual model of IX from scratch still in works - I had somewhat of a turbulent year and a half, resulting in somewhat lack of time spent on the computer period.

The reason for using pre-existing models is simple: first I have to figure out HOW to import and how to correspont those things together, at least on a AI unit. Player unit becomes exponentially harder even if I leave all the inards of the sub intact. As a result you spend somewhat ridiculous amount of time just guessing what exactly causing what; while I'm not quiet capable of tweaking things on TDW's level it proves to be a major challange to import such complex structure.

@gap, if you remember, for example, I had a major issue with some models, dive plane for example, that for some odd reason became inverted during the import. We had a simmilar issue with importing some AO maps for the OH2 for the baloons. Or same issue when I was working with my mine project that I still have and still not able to complete due to the same exact issue: in the game I'm not able to get the collidable object to exist at all.

So, I'm starting all that from ground up - trying to make it slowly work.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

The model itself on those screenies was taken from SH3/SH4.
The actual model of IX from scratch still in works - I had somewhat of a turbulent year and a half, resulting in somewhat lack of time spent on the computer period.

I as sorry for that, and I hope everything is okay now

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

The reason for using pre-existing models is simple: first I have to figure out HOW to import and how to correspont those things together, at least on a AI unit. Player unit becomes exponentially harder even if I leave all the inards of the sub intact. As a result you spend somewhat ridiculous amount of time just guessing what exactly causing what; while I'm not quiet capable of tweaking things on TDW's level it proves to be a major challange to import such complex structure.

You have two ways to match the position of different parts of the same model: you can either offset their xyz coordinates in your 3D modeller so that everything is in its right position, and then import each separate mesh in GR2 Editor making sure to zero bones' traslation/rotation data, or you can set custom xyz coordinates for each mesh, and then adjust their position setting bones' rotation/stanslation data appropriately, similar to what we do for placing equipments and sensors in their correct position. Translation data shown in GR2 Editor (as well as in S3ditor) is in the same unit legth as in 3ds and Wings, i.e. 1 unit = 10 meters. The first method is obviously easier, but it is not always viable. A good example of that is given by rudders, diveplanes, gun barrels etc. As far as I understand, the only way to make them to rotate correctly in game, is making their rotation axis to pass through the origin of the 3d world, before the GR2 import, so the correct placing of those model parts can only be done through translation of their bone.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

if you remember, for example, I had a major issue with some models, dive plane for example, that for some odd reason became inverted during the import. We had a simmilar issue with importing some AO maps for the OH2 for the baloons.

That's not an issue: left/right in SH games are inverted compared to what we see in modelling programs. This is not always obvious, as most models we are dealing with have a longitudinal symmetry. For asymmetrical objects all is needed is flipping our models around the x axis before importing them.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Or same issue when I was working with my mine project that I still have and still not able to complete due to the same exact issue: in the game I'm not able to get the collidable object to exist at all.

Thats a veritable puzzle, but I am confident that the issue is caused by something so obvious that we don't see it. After all you had not problem making your lifeboats collisionable

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

Thats a veritable puzzle, but I am confident that the issue is caused by something so obvious that we don't see it. After all you had not problem making your lifeboats collisionable

That is true. And that is what annoys me the most! I'm not sure whether it is a problem with the original gr2 i'm using as a base or is it the way i'm importing/arranging bones/assigning things.
For example, i learnt that it doesn't really matter how to name the collision bone/mesh...
Well, once I finally settle down and actually hook up my computer properly i'll start working on all this things again.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Well, once I finally settle down and actually hook up my computer properly i'll start working on all this things again.