Tutorial request: n00b cant calculate distance

[pappavis]

I've recently bought Dangerous Waters downloadversion,. I havent had any sub experience since 688 Attack Sub on the Amiga some 17 years ago.

My problem is that i cant get a exact range fix on a target. When using Reveal Truth it seems my TMA distances are usually 10km or so off range. What is the trick to caluclate the correct range??

I am now tryying out tghe Kilo Demo which seems a good starters sub. What i do is:
1. Aquire targets using broadband.
2. Set up a few waypoints in a Letter N pattern.
3. Then move that arrow-thing in the TMA. My course/bearing are usually kinda accurate though the range is always incorrect. Which results in torpedos going active too soon or too late.

Whats the use of setting torpedo floor, ceiling values?


TIA for this n00b.

[LuftWolf]

TMA is the last step of the process that begins with sensor acquisition of the contact.

My general procedure for evaluating a contact is as follows:

1) Sensor aquisition of the contact

2) Preliminary classification of the contact based on context and sensor data

3) Preliminary range estimation based on sensor data and situational context

4) Establishment of a probability datum for the contact. To do this, I estimate a speed for the contact (since DEMON data over broadband is rarely available this early) and test several possible ruler solutions on the TMA, without actually entering a solution, to see what is the most likely general area for the contact. Do not enter a solution at this point, so that your NAVMAP continues to update the contact bearing automatically. Once you have established a general area for the contact (the datum) use the NAVMAP drawing tools to make a mark and/or draw a area circle on the map for the contact's datum, you can also time-stamp the mark and enter a note on your estimated speed and course for the contact.

At this last step, I have to decide whether further evaluation of the contact is necessary based on my current situation and mission priorities. For most contacts, a datum is sufficient and the mission can go on without interruption. Specifically, a probability datum is generally where I think the contact is based on limited evalution. Your own experience over time will lead you better and better preliminary estimation.

5) If you require a precise solution on the contact, either because you are deploying weapons against it or near it, or need to plot an intercept course, then you need to decide if you need specific speed information over DEMON and/or if you need to do maneovering to gain a better solution. Generally speaking, gaining DEMON data is as simple as getting closer to the target and getting the proper classification to get the necessary TPK for the prop... although this is a whole separate topic of tactics.

The goal of TMA maneovers is to change from a lead course to a lag course or vice versa, in order to narrow down the potential ruler solutions by producing bearing readings from multiple ownship to target relationships. It is important to maintain a speed of at least 7kts when performing TMA, and also to disregard any bearing lines added during ownship maneovering. Generally speaking, a TMA leg should be at least three bearing lines long (so about 8 minutes or so per leg) but ideally, a TMA leg should be at 12 minutes or longer for even the shortest ranges... for longer ranges, you will need considerably longer TMA legs.

Speed is most often the hardest thing to estimate... I tend to just guess the speed of various targets from sonar strength and my knowledge of tactics and platforms. Generally speaking, if you are +-5 to 10kts, that will produce a good enough solution for you to get the ball rolling on engagement or intercept.

I recommend frequently using Show Truth as you are learning the game to correlate what you are seeing on your sensors with what is actually going on in the sim.

In regards to the Ceiling and Floor values for the weapons, these allow you to set hard-caps on the maximum and minimum depths for the weapons when you fire them, allowing you to employ torpedoes around surface traffic or friendly submarines without worrying about hitting a neutral or friendly.

I hope this explanation is helpful for you. Let us know if you have any further questions.

Cheers,
David

[pappavis]

gonna try this tonight. It is said that World of Warcraft causes sleeploss. Its wrong: dangerous waters do it to me .

[Fish]

Originally Posted by pappavis

gonna try this tonight. It is said that World of Warcraft causes sleeploss. Its wrong: dangerous waters do it to me .

Welkom pappavis.

[Dr.Sid]

Also don't be affraid to use auto TMA for the first year playing DW Most of us did so I guess.

[TLAM Strike]

Wait for an intersection point on the LOBs to form (you may need to set the display to show a longer period of time) when that intersection forms reverse your course and wait for a new intersection point to form the target is between those two points.

[pappavis]

Originally Posted by Fish

Welkom pappavis.

Dankje wel. Eigenlijk ben ik Suid-Afrikaans, woon wel in Nederland. Welke klasse is Nederlands onderzeeërs?

At the moment i am covering the russian side of things: flying the russian airforce' Su-25T (its their version of A-10) with Lock On: Flaming Cliffs, which took me ages to master tactics etc. Since 2 weeks or so, getting into the russian navy with the Kilo, maybe later Akula.

Simulations, especially those who have a aim to get close to realism, can totally overwhelm n00bs, My luck is, here on specialized forums are the simmers ready to help. Good .

[pappavis]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Wait for an intersection point on the LOBs to form (you may need to set the display to show a longer period of time) when that intersection forms reverse your course and wait for a new intersection point to form the target is between those two points.

Someone posted a videoclip, demonstrating the use of TMA, which lacked any boice comments, though was very helpfull to get me started on TMA.
In that TMA-tutorial was shown, to set waypoints like the Letter N: go away from the target, then turn into it, then away again. The end result should provide a good TMA solution for both targetspeed, course, bearing and distance. I havent mastred that yet.

[Sonoboy]

I must say that I'm the one responsible for the video. I didn't think my voice sounded good enough for narration.

It doesn't matter if you go in the shape of an N, or if you go away from the contact. What really matters is changing from lag to lead.

I will probably be working on another theory of mine very soon, so stay tuned!



I remember the days when I was a noob. What got me started on manual TMA was the challenge it presented. At that time, I really didn't have much of a clue about what I was doing. It took me a while, but it was very much worth it.

I'm glad to hear that the video helped.

[pappavis]

Originally Posted by Sonoboy

I must say that I'm the one responsible for the video. I didn't think my voice sounded good enough for narration.

Could be that i missed a codec xoz i hadnt had sound on it.

Originally Posted by Sonoboy

I'm glad to hear that the video helped.

Yes thanx, please do post more videoclips, you'd help me very much.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by pappavis

Whats the use of setting torpedo floor, ceiling values?

Safety. As you get better at TMA and don't have to wire guide so much, you'll find that circle search torpedoes offer a lot of advantages over snake searching torpedoes. The thing is, if you shoot them close in they can sometimes come back at you. The problem is kind of bad in the KILO since the sonar is not particularly good and ASW engagements are frequently quite close in. The KILO, ultimately, is only intended as an ASW platform in self defense. It's most lethal against surface ships. If you set a floor and ceiling, though, you're safe as long as you stay above the ceiling or below the floor.

You can also use them to select targets out of a group. For example, if you know there's a submarine hiding along the bearing of a surface ship, trying to mask in his noise, and you don't want to hit the surface ship, set the ceiling to 60' or so and the torpedo can't touch the surface ship and will home on the submarine. Conversely, you could set a floor of 60' and a ceiling of 0 to avoid hitting the submarine.

[jmr]

Originally Posted by pappavis

Someone posted a videoclip, demonstrating the use of TMA, which lacked any boice comments, though was very helpfull to get me started on TMA.
In that TMA-tutorial was shown, to set waypoints like the Letter N: go away from the target, then turn into it, then away again. The end result should provide a good TMA solution for both targetspeed, course, bearing and distance. I havent mastred that yet.

Where can I find this vid?

[Sonoboy]

Where can I find this vid?

www.subguru.com

In the downloads section, first one on the top.