So is this Silent Hunter 6 or what?

Originally Posted by Pisces

There is a difference between making critical comments and derogative comments. You seem to be doing the latter. In that case, yeah, proof that you can do it better.

That argument never has held water, and never will.

Also: The word you are looking for is "prove". If you want to talk down to people, better make sure you don't typo when you do it!

Also: Derogatory was the other word.

There. Did that "proof" I can do better?

[blackswan40]

Delicate touch needed i fancy now then now then then now alrighty.

Hi Slyguy3129 On Subsim theres only one Onkel Neal (that has the patience of Angels).

Also there's at the last count fourteen Uncle Alberts that help members get their games and mods squared away also other kind souls that do the same.
for those guys and gals are the unsung heroes line chiefs of Onkel Neals Navy.

Has one downloaded the Wolfpack Manual if so has one had a indepth look at page nine no pun intended here old bean link below.

Re 2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5471




If one had gathered the source data freely available in the Subsim Downloads then one would be in the know would'nt one.

PS Dont miss the bus!!!

Originally Posted by blackswan40

Delicate touch needed i fancy now then now then then now alrighty.

Hi Slyguy3129 On Subsim theres only one Onkel Neal (that has the patience of Angels).

Also there's at the last count fourteen Uncle Alberts that help members get their games and mods squared away also other kind souls that do the same.
for those guys and gals are the unsung heroes line chiefs of Onkel Neals Navy.

Has one downloaded the Wolfpack Manual if so has one had a indepth look at page nine no pun intended here old bean link below.

Re 2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5471




If one had gathered the source data freely available in the Subsim Downloads then one would be in the know would'nt one.

PS Dont miss the bus!!!

Dynamic Single Player Campaign? One of the big three in my list.


You expect me to use one of my precious daily downloads in order to learn about a game?

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

should be: "as I" let's use correct grammar!


...especially when we presume to correct others. Otherwise there is the impression of a pompous, overbearing double-standard.

Yawn

If that's all you got in the defense of this game, no wonder it's in the shape it's in.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

That argument never has held water, and never will.

Also: The word you are looking for is "prove". If you want to talk down to people, better make sure you don't typo when you do it!

Also: Derogatory was the other word.

There. Did that "proof" I can do better?

You win. When it comes to English. It's not my native language. And after a full night lack of sleep I guess I slipped up this time. I usually do better. I've also seen worse.

It is also interesting that this discussion has now turned to be about (my use of ) semantics. While apparently you did get the gist of it.

[Captain_AJ]

Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,

Originally Posted by Captain_AJ

Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,

When you are awake when your half of the planet is asleep and asleep when it is awake, it tends to be rather difficult to play a multiplayer game. Nobody wants to spend $60 on a game, and only be able to play it when other people want too.

I seem to remember how upset people were with Silent Hunter 5 with it's "always online" DRM. This isn't even Copy Protection, you need internet and other people just to play the game. I don't understand how that suddenly became "ok".

Essentially it seems like all this game has to offer is "You get to play with people in your boat with you", which sounds as much fun to me as "Mr. Slyguy3129, you have stage 4 cancer. You have hours to live."

I keep noticing no-one addressing the Single Play Campaign covering the whole war. Is it because this game is intended to be mission based. Quick 15 minute games (E-Sport standard) where you spawn in and the convoy is right there. Since the game has no TC from the sounds of it, the convoys can't be too far off. No searching for Convoys. No patrolling. Just spawn in, shoot torpedoes repeat. If I wanted that, I could just load up Silent Service 1 on the Nintendo Entertainment System. Which I do still play.

[abaileyatd]

Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"

Originally Posted by abaileyatd

Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"

Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.



Again, I'm so very thrilled that some of you out there are getting the exact game you have always wanted. And again, that must be a wonderful, warm fuzzy feeling to get. Must be nice!



By acting like I don't have any right to be upset and express my severe displeasure means you don't want me to have the game that I eventually would very much like to have while you get to piddle around in the game you've always wanted. It's pretty easy to be "pig in slop" happy when you have the game you want. It's not easy to be "pig in slop" happy when it seems like every single day Submarine Simulations get more and more rare, and the chances of you ever getting the game you've dreamed of for 30 years gets more and more extinct.
__________________________________________________ ______________




But anyways, I just dropped in to be fair. Since I was so very hyper critical of the other, I notice a new advertisement banner on the top of the page. It does a far, far better job at selling the product they are making. In fact, just reading it, almost got me excited for it.


I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.










































But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.

[Giesemaschine]

Yeesh, tough crowd but I understand the frustration.


My DREAM subsim would be a modern-remake of Aces of the Deep - what a SP campaign that had! However, to lump Wolfpack in with the fortnite/arcade/MMO bullcrap crowd is not fair to the game.


I've cut my teeth on Aces of the Deep, Jane's 688i, all of the Silent Hunters (especially 1 and 3 with the GWX mod), Shells of Fury, etc. In 20+ years of subsimming I've never once had to walk up to the valves, flood both the forward and aft #2/4 main ballast tanks, blow the negative tank while passing periscope depth and then trim for dive.

I have to do that in Wolfpack. What is arcade about that procedure exactly? More arcade than pressing "P" in SH to submerge to periscope depth? "C" for crash dive?

I can plan, coordinate and pull off an attack with manual TDC and plotting tools in Wolfpack just how I do with SH3 - and Wolfpack doesn't even have an "auto lock" for targets that will compute the solution for you like SH3 has. Everything in this game is manually done, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll be sinking nothing.

Does Wolfpack have the dynamic SP campaign from Aces of the Deep I crave? No. And I so so wish it did. But for now what I am playing is certainly not an arcade, but an atmospheric, technically-detailed and FUN subsim.

If it wasn't a sim, It would have been wiped off my hard drive by now. Trust me.


P.S. did I mention I hate fortnite?

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.

I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.

But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.

Do you have any ability to conceive of how entitled you sound?

You have completely missed the point, but don't worry, I'll correct you.

This was ALWAYS designed, pitched and developed as a multiplayer real time session based game.

If you don't like that. Fine.

You do NOT however get to rant, whine and moan about it.

This is simply a case of a product that is not for you, of which I'm sure that are already a billion other products made around the world, that are not specifically designed for and will not suit you.

The fact that the devs have had their arms twisted to add AI BOTS, especially in preference to other much needed content, which will probably mean it will become a single player friendly game, means some people have moaned loudly enough... but that's not good enough for you is it? You don't want this game at all... you want a totally different game - one that has not ever been built or designed, or pitched. One that has to be made for you otherwise everything else that gets released is going to get an angry little tantrum about it, right?

You've said you create mods. Well great. Go make the game you want. Can't do that or won't? Ok, fine, use some of your money and pay some devs to do it for you.

You have options.

You only have to look at the depth this game has (see recent Nav plotting turns underwater video on YouTube) - far more than SH3,4 or 5 - to see it's potential. Hell, the Navigator alone has a huge amount to do and that's before the rest of the game is built!

You can run around this ship like an idiot trying to do all the roles yourself, but that's never been how a real sub operates nor is it that much fun. Sure, today alone I've had several online games with idiots, trolls and small men swinging their tiny d**ks around like they owned the place, but for all those, there are people who want to learn and excel at each station, who take their time and learn something more than some silly game demanding that you click here or press this key to crash dive.

Do you have any idea the coordination and wondrous thing of beauty it is when a team of 3 or 4 crash dive a sub properly under control? No, you don't, because you want to press C instead.

And that's fine.

You complain about 1/2 the planet being asleep when you're awake. You do realise one of the team behind this game lives in your time zone and there are weekly games IN YOUR TIMEZONE don't you? Or are you just whining without any facts?

But regardless, this game isn't for you and as such you should have zero opinion on it. In fact I'd go as far as to say that unless it directly impacts your life, then it's utterly irrelevant what you think, what you want. You're not the devs. It's not your vision. It's not a game for you.

Go look at Uboat. Or build your own.

There's nothing for you to see here, nor for you to comment on. I don't go on forums for Doom or Fortnite and whine that they aren't a true Mil Sim!

This year, we have 2 very different brand new sub games. And you're still unhappy? Meh.

Remember, opinions, especially pointless, useless ones are like rectums. Everyone's got one, and usually only rubbish comes out of it.

[Sniderling]

Slyguy... wow what a nasty person you are. Seriously. I registered just so I could post this comment...

[Aktungbby]

Sniderling!

[Fidd]

I must firstly admit that I have not read all of this extensive thread, but it seems to me that some degree of multiplayer is most necessary, especially for the long-term health of the game.

I think it's necessary, however, to break down the multiplayer element into three areas (looking ahead slightly too):

multi-player within a U-boat
multi-player within up to 4 U-boats
multi-player within 1 or more escorts

Of these, in my estimation, and as a generalisation, the 1st and 3rd do, are, or are likely, to work well. The 2nd is a problem area, as all too often it just means that a minute before your torpedoes strike, someone else alerts the convoy and maybe an hour and half's effort on your part is wasted. Although the wolfpack attack is well documented, I have my doubts that it was so concentrated an attack that these near simultaneous attacks were common at all.

I think that there's no question that the multiplayer within a particular boat works well, especially when you get an experienced crew together, plus maybe one new-guy. Likewise, provided that the right measures are put in place for crewing escorts, such as the ability to transfer between escorts (with a cool-down period between such transfers), then this will be very good for gameplay for several reasons:

Firstly it will greatly improve the otherwise rather lacklustre AI performance of escorts, it'll greatly extend the periods when a particular U-boat is hunted, and also the periods under actual attack. Secondly it creates a very personal battle of wits between the U-boat commander and the escort captain and convoy-commander - and it'll feel personal too, with the intelligence behind and persistence of, a nerve-wracking DC attack being directed by an opposing player rather than the AI. Thirdly, it'll no longer be possible for a commander to be able to look at an escort and know that he's out of visual range at a particular range, or indeed that the escort he's looking at is AI manned or human manned. If the former, then the range/observation limits, as now, would apply, but he can't know that he's not been spotted....

In summation, some aspects of multi-player work well, other's less so. It's my estimation that multi-boat crewing should only be possible with a variable spawn-distance from the convoy and well out of visual range. YMMV. In other areas swapping AI for human multiplayer would greatly improve the game, again YMMV.

[abaileyatd]

Look, frankly I'm just upset that this isn't Half Life 3. So is this Half Life 3 or what? Why did they make Wolfpack when they could've made Half Life 3 which I'd rather play?

Ok I kid... I would MUCH rather play Wolfpack than Half Life 3!