Reason for 10x attack scope in GWX2

jimmie · 12-24-07, 02:51 AM

vBulletin's search function is useless aginst whole text search in a long page thread...

This must have been discussed before but I didn't know so, can someone tell me why 10x was chosen for the high power magnification in the attack scope? Is it rather because of SH3 limitaion (relating to visibility)?

Hitman's info suggests both scope had 1.5x and 6x:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=118829&page=7

Just curious to know.

danlisa · 12-24-07, 02:57 AM

The 10x Scope has been included in all versions of GWX for a few reasons:

1) The need to identify all contacts by looking at their flag because all contacts are grey.
2) We're playing a game as such the visuals are not as good as the MKI Eyeball.

jimmie · 12-24-07, 04:11 AM

I see. Thanks for the info

Pablo · 12-24-07, 08:04 AM

Hi!

That was a good question!

Jimbuna is correct; I will just add that another reason for making the scope a bit more powerful than in real life was that the 6X scope in Silent Hunter III didn't give you anywhere near the capability to identify a ship's flag that a decent 6X set of binoculars had in real life (as tested by GWX Team members).

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

I'll add a mention of this in the manual.

Pablo

Wolfehunter · 12-24-07, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

Hi!

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

Pablo

King size bedsheets hay....

No wonder why sailers are sharing bunks.

TheDarkWraith · 12-24-07, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

Hi!

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

Pablo

King size bedsheets hay....

No wonder why sailers are sharing bunks.

That only happens on subs...

...that's why I was a surface sailor in the US Navy

Jimbuna · 12-24-07, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

Hi!

That was a good question!

Jimbuna is correct; I will just add that another reason for making the scope a bit more powerful than in real life was that the 6X scope in Silent Hunter III didn't give you anywhere near the capability to identify a ship's flag that a decent 6X set of binoculars had in real life (as tested by GWX Team members).

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

I'll add a mention of this in the manual.

Pablo

Not me matey....I think you meant Dan Dan the sailor man

Storabrun · 01-16-08, 10:50 PM

Actually, there is no need to justify it with visuals beeing worse in a game than in real life. The scope view is shrunk to fit into the "hole" that is your periscope and the end result is something very close to a magnification of 6. To get a real magnification of 10 the magnification would need to be raised to 16-17.

I never thought about this myself until I installed OLC GUI where observation scope and binoculars fill the screen. The magnifications are left at 6 in that mod but everything appears just as big as in the 10x scope in GWX because there is no shrinking needed there.

Bilgerat · 01-17-08, 02:16 AM

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

Kpt. Lehmann · 01-17-08, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilgerat

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storabrun

Actually, there is no need to justify it with visuals beeing worse in a game than in real life. The scope view is shrunk to fit into the "hole" that is your periscope and the end result is something very close to a magnification of 6. To get a real magnification of 10 the magnification would need to be raised to 16-17.

I never thought about this myself until I installed OLC GUI where observation scope and binoculars fill the screen. The magnifications are left at 6 in that mod but everything appears just as big as in the 10x scope in GWX because there is no shrinking needed there.

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

ref · 01-17-08, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilgerat

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

If you're talking about the assisted targeting mode, the game doesn't use the scope view to calculate the distance, it just reads the x and z coordinates of the ship and makes some trig.

Ref

Bilgerat · 01-17-08, 06:04 AM

no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range. ive dead centered ship up to 7200 yards with this. i estimate speed with the hydrophones and seem to be lucky with aob. this keeps me from having to plot multiple times and is very useful against fast ships.

Storabrun · 01-17-08, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

I don't think I missed that point. I just wanted to add another good reason for raising the magnification from 6 to 10. What you have done is basically to fix a bug or oversight that existed in stock. Which was that magifying something by 6 is not enough if you are going to shrink that picture later (to 60%) to fit into the hole that is our attack scope.

Kpt. Lehmann · 01-17-08, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storabrun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

I don't think I missed that point. I just wanted to add another good reason for raising the magnification from 6 to 10. What you have done is basically to fix a bug or oversight that existed in stock. Which was that magifying something by 6 is not enough if you are going to shrink that picture later (to 60%) to fit into the hole that is our attack scope.

Ahh now I understand you. Looks like we killed two birds with one stone then.

Hitman · 01-17-08, 08:26 AM

Quote:

no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range

Yup, that's correct, as it means using the "stadia", where the stadimeter takes its name from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadia_rod#Stadia_rods

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/astro/stadia.htm

http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/E7171E/E7171E03.htm

12-24-07, 02:51 AM	#1
jimmie Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 259 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Reason for 10x attack scope in GWX2 vBulletin's search function is useless aginst whole text search in a long page thread... This must have been discussed before but I didn't know so, can someone tell me why 10x was chosen for the high power magnification in the attack scope? Is it rather because of SH3 limitaion (relating to visibility)? Hitman's info suggests both scope had 1.5x and 6x: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=118829&page=7 Just curious to know.

12-24-07, 02:57 AM	#2
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	The 10x Scope has been included in all versions of GWX for a few reasons: 1) The need to identify all contacts by looking at their flag because all contacts are grey. 2) We're playing a game as such the visuals are not as good as the MKI Eyeball. __________________

12-24-07, 08:04 AM	#4
Pablo Commodore Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 641 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	Hi! That was a good question! Jimbuna is correct; I will just add that another reason for making the scope a bit more powerful than in real life was that the 6X scope in Silent Hunter III didn't give you anywhere near the capability to identify a ship's flag that a decent 6X set of binoculars had in real life (as tested by GWX Team members). SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect. I'll add a mention of this in the manual. Pablo __________________ "...far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Hamilton Club, Chicago, April 10, 1899

12-24-07, 04:11 AM	#3
jimmie Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 259 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I see. Thanks for the info

01-16-08, 10:50 PM	#8
Storabrun Loader Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 83 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually, there is no need to justify it with visuals beeing worse in a game than in real life. The scope view is shrunk to fit into the "hole" that is your periscope and the end result is something very close to a magnification of 6. To get a real magnification of 10 the magnification would need to be raised to 16-17. I never thought about this myself until I installed OLC GUI where observation scope and binoculars fill the screen. The magnifications are left at 6 in that mod but everything appears just as big as in the 10x scope in GWX because there is no shrinking needed there.

01-17-08, 02:16 AM	#9
Bilgerat Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

01-17-08, 06:04 AM	#12
Bilgerat Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range. ive dead centered ship up to 7200 yards with this. i estimate speed with the hydrophones and seem to be lucky with aob. this keeps me from having to plot multiple times and is very useful against fast ships.