UK Politics Thread - Page 927

mapuc · 06-08-21, 02:28 PM

< Now I remember.

Continue from last post:

If simple majority decisions was a part of EU would they have accepted the outcome of the British referendum ?

Meaning-If EU sees Scotland, N.I and Wales as independent states, would they have accepted it ?

Markus

Catfish · 06-08-21, 02:43 PM

I take it England and maybe Wales would have left, but not Scotland and Ireland.
Some kind of blackmailing to demand leaving the EU because England wants it. As the joke goes, "England, Scotland and Ireland went to a pub but they all had to leave because England wanted to", only a few years after promising the only way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK, and no indepencence for its members.

It is not about sovereignty, England and the UK always had it, it is also not about immigrants, because immigrants are as free or prohibited to enter the UK as before brexit, but this Cummings slogan "Take back control" hit a nerve, adding Farage's nazi-like queues poster with the threat of immigrants waiting to invade England ummmm the UK, or the Boris brexit bus with the fund the NHS slogan.
Some lies at the right time and spots, and that's it. No one took the time or effort to try to understand how the EU really works or what it does, Farage's "unelected breaucrats" and all those other lies.
I have posted a list of invented lies about the EU numerous times, only to read the same BS a few days later again.

Maybe there is an economical advantage in the long run (ten-twenty years from now) but frankly? I doubt it. England importing and exporting goods e.g. from and to Australia instead from and to your neighbour makes so much sense? All treaties and "deals" (real TrumpSpeak eh?) England has managed to sign are not one yota better than what the EU treaties gave them, most are worse.

The only winners are people like Rees-Mogg and some (and only some) companies. One of the biggest brexit supporters like vacuum-Dyson who promptly moved their business to Singapore and Rees-Mogg to the republic of Ireland, when brexit threatened their profits.

Jimbuna · 06-09-21, 08:18 AM

Jimbuna · 06-09-21, 08:20 AM

Jimbuna · 06-09-21, 10:20 AM

The EU says its patience is "wearing very thin" with the UK in talks aimed at avoiding a trade war over Northern Ireland border checks.

Exports of sausages and other chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will effectively be banned at the end of the month.

The UK says it is ready to ignore the ban to prevent further disruption.

Top EU official Maros Sefcovic warned tariffs - taxes on imports - could be imposed if that happens.

Speaking after a meeting with the UK's Brexit minister Lord Frost, Mr Sefcovic said he was "positive we can find a solution, where there is a will there is a way".

But he added: "Our patience really is wearing very, very thin, and therefore we have to assess all options we have at our disposal."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-57403258

Catfish · 06-09-21, 02:50 PM

"Expect frank discussions when Biden meets with Johnson".

Skybird · 06-09-21, 03:59 PM

Like in case of a German referendum not all 16 federla states would have independent votes and some states would leave the Eu and some wopuld stay, but all 16, under thre German flag would be united a sone in such a vote, Scotland, wale,s Northern Ireland and England were untied as one nation in the Brexit vote.

Its double standards to demand that eahc of these four regions should be treated as if they were 4 independent states. They are not, they are one. And in this one nation, a short majority voted Yes.

Live with it, Catfish. A majority of the UK population said Yes to Brexit. A majority of the UK population. The UK is not four nations, but one. Like Germany is not 16 nations, but one.

When any of the Gemrna federla states or the four UK regions becomes fully independent - then, and not one day earlier, the argument you raise makes kind of sense.

Personally , if the Irish or Scots would want to leave, I support them, as a loibertarian I respect the right for self-administration. But not if they cannot pay their bills on their own, but expect others to pay for them. Expect us, that is. A nation that cannot live by its own means, is not independent, even if it declares independence. It is indeed very dependent then. Independency is not a formality only. Its economic and military strength: you can afford to pull your own weight, and you can defend your ability to do so. Any other, more sentimental thinking on this - is drivel only.

Dependency is something that you need to be able to afford. And if cou cannot afford it, forget independence. You are not independent if you depend.

Catfish · 06-10-21, 02:19 AM

^ True in the major scope, but regarding independence and the UK being "one nation" you should ask Ireland and Scotland (and even Wales) and especially England what they think of this

Ireland, Scotland and Wales are still treated as lesser members by Whitehall, always good for votes at least until now but not for real improvement and development; held short intentionally or so it looks from here.

If you say they have to make their kowtos because they cannot pay their bills alone i take it this is not the criterium for all considerations. And Ireland of course could pay, Scotland would have to think and make plans itself for a change; they have oil, whisky, a lot of resources (from geological advantages, to fish, to tourism). Unless this planning happens they are probably better suited where they are now.
I do not think the UK construction is an entirely bad thing, but then it is basically what 51 percent of England criticises the EU for, like you can see HERE

Brexit is through in all possible meanings of this word, and thus hardly worth posting in the news over here anymore. A bit different than in England and the UK for obvious reasons. And a lot of english goods, spare parts etc do not reach Ireland anymore (and vice versa), and (from own experience) Germany. Also a friend waiting for his paid Jag E windscreen since at least five months because of "trade problems". This alone does would not spoil the big picture, but i guess it is true for a lot of branches and trade.

I wished (and still do) the people in the nations of the UK all the best, but seeing this government of England making decisions for the others, and hearing its "arguments", excuses and accusations, it is enough to raise hell in the most calm chaps.
Cannot blame any man or woman over there to hate the EU if i see the yellow press and what is perpetrated on the people; it seems there are no media even trying to be neutral or true, from Express to The Sun to the Daily Mail, to whatever and the ~~day~~ videos.
Instead they try to arouse hate, using loaded and fighting words, lying unashamed and openly.. even russian lies and desinformation is welcomed if it helps to stir the pot and divert public opinion against the EU.

Also interesting to see Johnson boast over his personal [sic!] "victory" over the Corona virus, instead of bothering with "the war", for a change.

I had (being completely off my trolley of course) expected to see Johnson a bit more humble knowing the vaccine with which he "won" being invented in Germany, instead selling it as a personal or "national" win, while buying out the market using nationalist egoism and tricks. But then for him it's either a game or a war going on.

Catfish · 06-10-21, 03:37 AM

"Biden, Johnson to stress close ties, manage differences"

Article gets interesting further south

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...4bc43e37a2c862

Jimbuna · 06-10-21, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Like in case of a German referendum not all 16 federla states would have independent votes and some states would leave the Eu and some wopuld stay, but all 16, under thre German flag would be united a sone in such a vote, Scotland, wale,s Northern Ireland and England were untied as one nation in the Brexit vote.

Its double standards to demand that eahc of these four regions should be treated as if they were 4 independent states. They are not, they are one. And in this one nation, a short majority voted Yes.

Live with it, Catfish. A majority of the UK population said Yes to Brexit. A majority of the UK population. The UK is not four nations, but one. Like Germany is not 16 nations, but one.

When any of the Gemrna federla states or the four UK regions becomes fully independent - then, and not one day earlier, the argument you raise makes kind of sense.

Personally , if the Irish or Scots would want to leave, I support them, as a loibertarian I respect the right for self-administration. But not if they cannot pay their bills on their own, but expect others to pay for them. Expect us, that is. A nation that cannot live by its own means, is not independent, even if it declares independence. It is indeed very dependent then. Independency is not a formality only. Its economic and military strength: you can afford to pull your own weight, and you can defend your ability to do so. Any other, more sentimental thinking on this - is drivel only.

Dependency is something that you need to be able to afford. And if cou cannot afford it, forget independence. You are not independent if you depend.

Spoken like a true Brit

Jimbuna · 06-10-21, 12:53 PM

Looking at the picture of the G7 leaders in the article below gets me thinking why there are eight people.

Why Von Der Leyen when Italy, France and Germany are already present?

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-57427205

mapuc · 06-10-21, 02:01 PM

^ Maybe EU want to send a signal by this.

Could be that EU wants to tell US and rest of the world that despite member states in EU are somehow free-We are united as one European continent.= USE
United States of Europe

Back to UK-I.L issue.

Does anyone of you have a crystal ball ? If so can you tell me what kind of relation there will be 10-20 years from now between Britain/N.I and Ireland

Markus

Catfish · 06-10-21, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Spoken like a true Brit

Only a brit could understand this as a "compliment"

So the UK is one nation

Well i already commented this.

Jimbuna · 06-11-21, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Only a brit could understand this as a "compliment"

So the UK is one nation

Well i already commented this.

"United Kingdom" was established/became official in 1801

Jimbuna · 06-11-21, 08:17 AM

06-08-21, 02:28 PM	#13891
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,287 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	< Now I remember. Continue from last post: If simple majority decisions was a part of EU would they have accepted the outcome of the British referendum ? Meaning-If EU sees Scotland, N.I and Wales as independent states, would they have accepted it ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-08-21, 02:43 PM	#13892
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I take it England and maybe Wales would have left, but not Scotland and Ireland. Some kind of blackmailing to demand leaving the EU because England wants it. As the joke goes, "England, Scotland and Ireland went to a pub but they all had to leave because England wanted to", only a few years after promising the only way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK, and no indepencence for its members. It is not about sovereignty, England and the UK always had it, it is also not about immigrants, because immigrants are as free or prohibited to enter the UK as before brexit, but this Cummings slogan "Take back control" hit a nerve, adding Farage's nazi-like queues poster with the threat of immigrants waiting to invade England ummmm the UK, or the Boris brexit bus with the fund the NHS slogan. Some lies at the right time and spots, and that's it. No one took the time or effort to try to understand how the EU really works or what it does, Farage's "unelected breaucrats" and all those other lies. I have posted a list of invented lies about the EU numerous times, only to read the same BS a few days later again. Maybe there is an economical advantage in the long run (ten-twenty years from now) but frankly? I doubt it. England importing and exporting goods e.g. from and to Australia instead from and to your neighbour makes so much sense? All treaties and "deals" (real TrumpSpeak eh?) England has managed to sign are not one yota better than what the EU treaties gave them, most are worse. The only winners are people like Rees-Mogg and some (and only some) companies. One of the biggest brexit supporters like vacuum-Dyson who promptly moved their business to Singapore and Rees-Mogg to the republic of Ireland, when brexit threatened their profits. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-08-21 at 02:52 PM.*

06-09-21, 08:18 AM	#13893
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,916 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-09-21, 08:20 AM	#13894
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,916 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-09-21, 10:20 AM	#13895
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,916 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The EU says its patience is "wearing very thin" with the UK in talks aimed at avoiding a trade war over Northern Ireland border checks. Exports of sausages and other chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will effectively be banned at the end of the month. The UK says it is ready to ignore the ban to prevent further disruption. Top EU official Maros Sefcovic warned tariffs - taxes on imports - could be imposed if that happens. Speaking after a meeting with the UK's Brexit minister Lord Frost, Mr Sefcovic said he was "positive we can find a solution, where there is a will there is a way". But he added: "Our patience really is wearing very, very thin, and therefore we have to assess all options we have at our disposal." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-57403258 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-09-21, 02:50 PM	#13896
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"Expect frank discussions when Biden meets with Johnson". __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-09-21 at 03:08 PM.*

06-09-21, 03:59 PM	#13897
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,745 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Like in case of a German referendum not all 16 federla states would have independent votes and some states would leave the Eu and some wopuld stay, but all 16, under thre German flag would be united a sone in such a vote, Scotland, wale,s Northern Ireland and England were untied as one nation in the Brexit vote. Its double standards to demand that eahc of these four regions should be treated as if they were 4 independent states. They are not, they are one. And in this one nation, a short majority voted Yes. Live with it, Catfish. A majority of the UK population said Yes to Brexit. A majority of the UK population. The UK is not four nations, but one. Like Germany is not 16 nations, but one. When any of the Gemrna federla states or the four UK regions becomes fully independent - then, and not one day earlier, the argument you raise makes kind of sense. Personally , if the Irish or Scots would want to leave, I support them, as a loibertarian I respect the right for self-administration. But not if they cannot pay their bills on their own, but expect others to pay for them. Expect us, that is. A nation that cannot live by its own means, is not independent, even if it declares independence. It is indeed very dependent then. Independency is not a formality only. Its economic and military strength: you can afford to pull your own weight, and you can defend your ability to do so. Any other, more sentimental thinking on this - is drivel only. Dependency is something that you need to be able to afford. And if cou cannot afford it, forget independence. You are not independent if you depend. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-10-21, 02:19 AM	#13898
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ True in the major scope, but regarding independence and the UK being "one nation" you should ask Ireland and Scotland (and even Wales) and especially England what they think of this Ireland, Scotland and Wales are still treated as lesser members by Whitehall, always good for votes at least until now but not for real improvement and development; held short intentionally or so it looks from here. If you say they have to make their kowtos because they cannot pay their bills alone i take it this is not the criterium for all considerations. And Ireland of course could pay, Scotland would have to think and make plans itself for a change; they have oil, whisky, a lot of resources (from geological advantages, to fish, to tourism). Unless this planning happens they are probably better suited where they are now. I do not think the UK construction is an entirely bad thing, but then it is basically what 51 percent of England criticises the EU for, like you can see HERE Brexit is through in all possible meanings of this word, and thus hardly worth posting in the news over here anymore. A bit different than in England and the UK for obvious reasons. And a lot of english goods, spare parts etc do not reach Ireland anymore (and vice versa), and (from own experience) Germany. Also a friend waiting for his paid Jag E windscreen since at least five months because of "trade problems". This alone does would not spoil the big picture, but i guess it is true for a lot of branches and trade. I wished (and still do) the people in the nations of the UK all the best, but seeing this government of England making decisions for the others, and hearing its "arguments", excuses and accusations, it is enough to raise hell in the most calm chaps. Cannot blame any man or woman over there to hate the EU if i see the yellow press and what is perpetrated on the people; it seems there are no media even trying to be neutral or true, from Express to The Sun to the Daily Mail, to whatever and the ~~day~~ videos. Instead they try to arouse hate, using loaded and fighting words, lying unashamed and openly.. even russian lies and desinformation is welcomed if it helps to stir the pot and divert public opinion against the EU. Also interesting to see Johnson boast over his personal [sic!] "victory" over the Corona virus, instead of bothering with "the war", for a change. I had (being completely off my trolley of course) expected to see Johnson a bit more humble knowing the vaccine with which he "won" being invented in Germany, instead selling it as a personal or "national" win, while buying out the market using nationalist egoism and tricks. But then for him it's either a game or a war going on. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-10-21 at 07:13 AM.*

06-10-21, 03:37 AM	#13899
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,935 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"Biden, Johnson to stress close ties, manage differences" Article gets interesting further south https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...4bc43e37a2c862 __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

06-10-21, 12:53 PM	#13901
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,916 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Looking at the picture of the G7 leaders in the article below gets me thinking why there are eight people. Why Von Der Leyen when Italy, France and Germany are already present? https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-57427205 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-10-21, 02:01 PM	#13902
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,287 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	^ Maybe EU want to send a signal by this. Could be that EU wants to tell US and rest of the world that despite member states in EU are somehow free-We are united as one European continent.= USE United States of Europe Back to UK-I.L issue. Does anyone of you have a crystal ball ? If so can you tell me what kind of relation there will be 10-20 years from now between Britain/N.I and Ireland Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-11-21, 08:17 AM	#13905
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,916 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)