UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hopefully matters will not escalate between the UK and our 'friends and allies'

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hope, or wish?

[Jimbuna]

Both

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Both

Sorry i meant hope it does not happen, or the wish that it will. Since those quotes by you always show the quite one-sided glee and hate towards the Eu, emphasizing UK "wins"

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully matters will not escalate between the UK and our 'friends and allies'

[Jimbuna]

The UK and the EU have had a "frank but constructive discussion" on problems implementing post-Brexit trade rules in Northern Ireland.

Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove met the vice-president of the European Commission, Maros Sefcovic, in London on Thursday evening.

Both sides reiterated their "full commitment" to the so-called Northern Ireland Protocol.

But they pledged to meet again to "address all outstanding issues".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56029067

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Catfish]

Maybe a separate anti-EU propaganda thread would be in order?

[Catfish]

The brexit bill

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ishingly-steep

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN2A20LD

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Maybe a separate anti-EU propaganda thread would be in order?

Where is the propaganda in this?

It simply is demonstrated, historical fact. Borrel did made an idiot of himself for sure and helped to further damage EU "diplomacy". The Corona crisis is being abused by Nanny Merkel and Super-Uschi to push further powers to the EU that by current treaties and laws it does not hold. People not getting vaccinated, mroe dying than necessary - irrelevant. Germany paying dozens of billions for extending the lockdown - not important. The good cause wants it. The cause wants it!

That it is this incompetent, dilettantic, amateurish, megalomaniac carricature of a wannabe-a-continental-superstate that gives us now planning the extremely costly Green deal policy, and climate agenda and saving the planet, is stuff for hellish nightmares. If even their relatively small plans do not work and spell desaster instead because they are zu doof für alles und irgendwas - how bad will the damage be that gets done by even bigger plans and ambitions of farther reach and more serious consequences? Stuff for nightmares.

And that is why Lavrov humiliated the EU so mercilessly. The EU begs for getting kicked and betrayed, kicking and betraying other sonly who are much smaller and weaker than itself. It wants to be a player at the table of the big geostraegic boys. But it isn't, and I cnanot see it becoming that. And considering that "Europe" and this "EU" are antagonistic, that is good. I will support a "European project" only when the contemporary EU and its isnane ambitions is replaced with an understanding of wanting to have only a European free trade zone - and the united military power to defend and protect this free trade zone and logistic supply and tradeing lines. The latter we alreadsy have inf orm of NATO, it just need to get brought into shape again. The fiorts needs the destryoign of the current EU first. Before you build the new house, you must tear down the old one still standing in its place.

This, and not one bit more. Free trade zone, and the shared defence to defend it.

What has made Europe great and potent and the most influential culture and civilization in history? Creativity, competition, rivalry, and inventions resulting from this (sometimes this went to ugly extremes, granted). What does the EU want, and causes in effect? Planned economy. Lack of competition but solidaric subvention. Undiscriminatory equality. That is enough for the clear-minded to understand what the problem is.

[Catfish]

First: The EU is no state. You can parrott is as often as you want, but it is not.

Then those headlines with UK flags everywhere and all those poor EU sods with badly photoshopped tears in their eyes:

"Gloves are off"
"Brexit victory"
"EU stunned"
"SNP Shock"
"There will be war"
(Macron) "We've overstepped"
(Macron) "We'll go bankrupt"
(Heroic Boris Johnson in victory pose) "That's why we left"
(von der Leyen) "THE END"

I understand how especially the last one suits your general view of the world, but seriously At least Lavrov's lapdogs can be happy, they sure found some believers here.


edit: here is the russian TASS' take on the situation. https://tass.com/politics/1255751

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

First: The EU is no state. You can parrott is as often as you want, but it is not.

I do not parrott that and I indeed say since years it is no state. But I also say:
1. it should never be a state
2. it nevertehless poses as if it were a st5ate already,
3. its defenders want it to become a state.

Then those headlines with UK flags everywhere and all those poor EU sods with badly photoshopped tears in their eyes:

"Gloves are off"
"Brexit victory"
"EU stunned"
"SNP Shock"
"There will be war"
(Macron) "We've overstepped"
(Macron) "We'll go bankrupt"
(Heroic Boris Johnson in victory pose) "That's why we left"
(von der Leyen) "THE END"

I understand how especially the last one suits your general view of the world, but seriously At least Lavrov's lapdogs can be happy, they sure found some believers here.

Yes. And if you look back in this thread when Jim started to post these videos, you will find some now older post by me that AFAIK was the first time a board member mentioned and sceptically asked about the dubious source of these videos. To me it probably is Russia. But proven that is not. Its just a defendable hypothesis.


The video's content however is - tricky. Formally, verbally, the claims are objective fact reports. Quotes given have been said for sure, events happened, no obvious lies are being told, as far as I noticed at least. Still, the robot-generated voice, the repetitiveness of the same quotes being given several times, the endless repetions at times, make it dubious.

Thats why I say: Russian-made. Its a speciality of theirs to hide behind obvious truths given that cannot be denied. Normally, they would mix in untruths into it, here they resist to opening that vulnerable flank - because they do not need to to nevertehless get the obvious effect.

Means: they must no invent and fabricate untrue truths here. The EU does their job of ridiculing it for them all by itself, by its deeds and statements and policies. Its like fighting against an enemy that keeps on slapping his own face. Never stop an enemy doing that!

The purpose of the video probably is propagandistic. But the content, if literally taken, is not - it simply is true.

Very clever warfare at work here. They just should get rid of that robot voice and the too excessive repetitions, then it would be perfect.

[Catfish]

Yes you are right, but i do not think that the EU will become one "state", not with France, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Italy, you name it. The differences are too big – Borrell was sent to the slaughter because the EU was not able to align or even speak out a definite strategy.

And then what else should have been done? Send 27 single diplomats to Lavrov to send the message home, or wasn't it better to send one man to speak for them?

Whether this behaviour by Lavrov was approppriate or "diplomatic" (lmao), or just a frustrated affront caused by the generally deteriorating situation also with the US, is not sure. But the EU will once more willfully take all the blame and roast in it

A hard stance would have caused more win for all, the EU just does not understand that we are back in cave man diplomacy. Of cours it would be easier for Russia to negotiate with single isolated states, instead of a 27-nation block with a lot more leverage.

I also do not think this "UK News" site is "clever" or well made. It is not, it indeed is ridiculous, but when you look at the comments... hook, line and sinker.
They would never have had a chance only a decade ago, but the general level of information and education seems to be in free fall.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Yes you are right, but i do not think that the EU will become one "state", not with France, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Italy, you name it.

Lets hope so. Thats why I welcome the conflicts between them. That was also my main reason, initially at last, why I supported Brexit. I am a pragmatist. And sometimes manipulative.

But it should also be obvious that there is a clear ambition, and clear drive by EU-philes to turn the EU into a superstate. The agenda is clearly on the table. They call it European "harmonization". They do not cvall it a state of cours,e like the de factor EU constitution is not called a consitution while serving in the function of a constitution (I mean the dictate of Lisbon).

Borrell was sent to the slaughter because the EU was not able to align or even speak out a definite strategy.

And then what else should have been done? Send 27 single diplomats to Lavrov to send the message home, or wasn't it better to send one man to speak for them?

If you cannot convince in words and cannot fight in muscles, then why not shutting up instead of seeking lecturings and rumbles? Else you make a fool of yourself.
Good advise it would be to be more cautious what kind of treaties and trade agreements in the future get signed with Russia. Why not signing none anymore, for a start?

What have we currently? Krim and Navalny on the one hand, Nord Stream 2 and vaccine and gas exports via other pipelines on the other hand. Checkmated yourself, EU! Europeans should finally gain clarity about their priorities. Instead they loose it all by trying to dance on all parties simulataneously - and even being everybody'S darling while trying to lecture him. Hilarious. Thats how you make a joke of yourself.

Whether this behaviour by Lavrov was approppriate or "diplomatic" (lmao), or just a frustrated affront caused by the generally deteriorating situation also with the US, is not sure.

Oh, I am quite certain that it was self-confidence. They leaked just short time later their threat to break all ties with the EU in general, and then "withdrew" it. That means the tools of torment has been briefly shown to the delinquent. The sanctions get felt a bit, but they in no way will seriously hurt them. Russia is too big and too autark to be threatened by sanctions, parts of its autarc economic system have even been boosted and strengthened due to the sanctions, in a reaction. Putin is nervous due to those protests in the streets, but these are triggered not by sanctions or economic crisis, but the Nawalny protests. I currently do not see the latter growing into protests against the first.

But the EU will once more willfully take all the blame and roast in it

No, it won't, its always the others fault as long as it is not about the - self-made - misery of the African and islamic world: then its always the white man's fault. The eU instead will bristle at it with many wide open mouths - and nothing else. Oh yes, some sanctions added, the super-sharp super-sword of European diplomacy. Yawn.

Yeah, dear EU. Next time dont send another Borrell. Just stay at home and shut up. Better remaining silent than to sink oneself.

A hard stance would have caused more win for all, the EU just does not understand that we are back in cave man diplomacy.

Have we ever been out of that?

Of cours it would be easier for Russia to negotiate with single isolated states, instead of a 27-nation block with a lot more leverage.

A block united in limited ambitions (free market zone) but the stronger in willingness and ability to defend that (NATO), would be something. Scrap all the rest, ECB, EU, Euro, away with that. Weakness and indifference never increase but always reduce the degrees of freedom for one'S own options and decision-making. Strength raises it, and if well used and not for attack, only strength can be a virtue. Weakness is never anythign different than just: weakness. The weak suffer must they must, the strong do what they want, for better or worse.

I also do not think this "UK News" site is "clever" or well made. It is not, it indeed is ridiculous, but when you look at the comments... hook, line and sinker.
They would never have had a chance only a decade ago, but the general level of information and education seems to be in free fall.

You see it too one-sided there, as I already explained. The technical craftman quality of the video can be improved (and its the one thing that spekas against the Russians as originators, I do not see why they could not make it better if they would wish), but the content that is used is clever. It cannot be argued with because it is true. Propaganda that cannot be shown to be propaganda, but illustrates just "the innocent facts", is hard to resist to. With the content I often agree. Its is the suspected intentions of the authors I have problems with: if I am right and they are working by Russian orders, their intention hardly is in the best interest of Brexit and Britain, but Russia's.


Its as if the content is ordered for by Russia and in detail, but the video is made by an amateur subcontractor.