Astute vs Virginia

[LoBlo]

Which is the better sub and why?

Discuss.

[goldorak]

What are the known specs for the virginia and astute classes ?
No vote without clear facts.

[XabbaRus]

Although I voted astute I would have to say at the moment Virginia class.

Why? Well 2 or 3 of them exists. Astute hasn't even been finished yet.

[UglyMowgli]

No not an another comaprison, base on what?
A computer will answer : 'ERROR : Not enough data to proceed, BIP, BIP.'

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by MSgalileo

No not an another comaprison, base on what?
A computer will answer : 'ERROR : Not enough data to proceed, BIP, BIP.'

Based off what we do know of course. And any other reasoning that the chooser expresses in their post for an interesting and enlightening discussion

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Although I voted astute I would have to say at the moment Virginia class.

Why? Well 2 or 3 of them exists. Astute hasn't even been finished yet.

You have to explain why you would choose Astute That the fun of the discussion.

[Linton]

Despite not wanting to upset the British community on here ,anything that BAE is involved in and is already late and over budget is going to be inferior.In the modern world the RN should be buying a fleet of aip SSKs

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Linton

Despite not wanting to upset the British community on here ,anything that BAE is involved in and is already late and over budget is going to be inferior.In the modern world the RN should be buying a fleet of aip SSKs

As far as I understand its not only the americans that are "fixed" on nuclear submarines.
English and French have decided for an all out nuclear submarine force.
How dumb is that ?
Especially for the 2 european countries ?
Did Rickover have relatives in France and England btw. ? :rotfl::rotfl:

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by goldorak

What are the known specs for the Virginia and Astute classes?

Aww.. thats lazy :p

Oh well, here's *one* source of info (even though there are no real "facts" in sub specs.)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-774-specs.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ope/astute.htm

In a nutshell....
The cost of the two subs is about equal. Both subs were designed to be low-cost but each had significant cost overruns.
The VA is estimated at 7800 tons crew of 113, the Astute at 6800 tons crew of 100-108.
VA is built by Electric Boat company, Newport News, Lockheed, and Raytheon. Astute is built by BAE, but halfway through the design phase, BAE needed to bring in Electric Boat Company to solve some of its problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2930237.stm
Both subs probably have comparable sensors, and diving depths.
The VA has 4 horizontal tubes and 12 VLS tubes; total weapons capacity 38. The Astute carries 6 horizontal tubes with no VLS system; total weapons capcity 36 weapons
The Astute speed is estimated at 32 knots. The VA speed is unknown. Its thought to be somewhere between the LA and the SW.

That's about all I can find atm. I voted for the VA. They cost the same, but Electric Boat Company seems to know what its doing more than BAE. I have some theories about they're quieting levels as well.

[goldorak]

Nothing interesting out there , the same boats, same weapons, same hull design, same everything *yawn*.
I want something new in submarine design/ weapons.
Why is it that american and english subs only carry "torpedos". ? :rotfl:
What about more "exotic"weapons : skvals, anti-ship missiles, subroc etc....

Enough rant, I vote for the Astute class, only because its a european sub everything else being equal.

[Orm]

[quote=LoBlo
but Electric Boat Company seems to know what its doing more than BAE.[/quote]

What a strange statement. Then you think that a company that get a national contract of billions of pound does know much of what it is doing. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Before you affirm such a thing, please show the hard facts that BAE is not competent in its job, or admit that it was a pure nationally biased statement, which is, in my point of view, meaningless.

[Sub Sailor]

I meant hull fitting and I am not blaming anyone or accusing anyone. It was a very sad accident and comes with the job. The hull fitting failing is common knowledge, and happens this happed at or near test depth.
Now for facts, I was involved in some of the testing after Thresher, to see what things we could change in our power plant operations to aid in this not ever happening again. It turns out we had overkill on the safe side and was far to restrictive, that was changed, and no I will not and cannot discuss it. Also from the Thresher sinking came sub safe, another area that had not kept up with the new capabilities of our subs. I have no idea what other Navies have in this area.
In regards to the Scorpion-everything from underwater sea mount, some one torpedoed her, lost depth control, to a battery explosion were out there on the rumor mill. The United States Navy made changes to how we handled the battery, I never saw the films of Scorpion and know we changed our operation of the ships battery, so apparently that what the experts determined caused the loss of the ship. In the case of Thresher I was allowed as others on the testing program to hear the tapes made by the vessel that accompanied Threser to sea, normal coming out of the shipyard.
Orm I was on Nuclear Subs from the early day (1962), and I have a lot of knowledge about US Subs. I know first hand our requirements and I know the training our people get, I did not any way question any other country's program.
I believe strongly in our programs, I trusted every crew I ever sailed with, and I will say now and always I never served with a CO who was not tops. I stated Rickover was difficult, he was driven, and his efforts and determination let the US send the first Nuclear Ship to sea. I truly do not believe anyone else could have done what he accomplished. But, he was about to be riffed when he took this program over and became the darling of the Congress of the United States. I also said I did not care for him, and was glad I was not accepted for NR-1, because that was his baby, but I did admire and respect the man.
Meeting Rickover's standard made me a better and smarter person than I thought I could ever be. It changed my life greatly and allowed me to become successful because of the work ethic drilled into me, and I am not alone there are 1000s of us around today.
I told you my qualifications to speak up, do you want to share yours?


Ronald E. Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by Orm

What a strange statement. Then you think that a company that get a national contract of billions of pound does know much of what it is doing. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Before you affirm such a thing, please show the hard facts that BAE is not competent in its job, or admit that it was a pure nationally biased statement, which is, in my point of view, meaningless.

*sigh* Looks like someone can't read.... .

Originally Posted by LoBlo

VA is built by Electric Boat company, Newport News, Lockheed, and Raytheon. Astute is built by BAE, but halfway through the design phase, BAE needed to bring in Electric Boat Company to solve some of its problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2930237.stm

Read the *already* posted BBC article.

I'll summarize for you. Over 3 years behind schedule... over 1 billion dollars over budget... and still could not solve its design problems.... Needed to bring in Electric Boat personel and expertise to help solve its problems.

Reading... its a good skill to have.

[Kapitan]

I kawnt wead gowd

[Orm]

[quote=LoBlo
Reading... its a good skill to have.[/quote]

Just keep your sarcastic comments out of this thread, otherwise I am going to ask that your post should be deleted.