LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

[Mau]

LuftWolf coontinue your good work!!

As per the effectiveness of the Chaff and Flares (I think you put now 40%), I don't know what was the original percentage, but I would not go above 25%
It is not because I want to be ``Pickie``, It is just based on some survey, tests, reference on internet.........etc.....

Let us know the original number in the Vanilla version

Thanks
Mau

[LuftWolf]

Thanks!

In the stock DB, the effectiveness is 20%. I have heard that the modeling of their drift is less than conducive to fooling missiles, so even times when they have properly spoofed them, the missile still may hit or reacquire.

Does anyone else know about this?

[LuftWolf]

Ok, so I can keep track.

Here are the implemented changes for v1.03:

Multipurpose Torpedo Balancing:

ADCAP--Given 60kts max speed.

UGST--Given 27nm max range.

Wakehoming Torpedos--DB flags and mission priorities changed to limit use to identified surface ships (to prevent AI from firing vs. submerged contacts, you may still set the depth how you like and the torpedo will follow all wakes to target, regardless of type).

Launched Anti-Torpedo CM's--effectiveness has been changed to 33% (up from 30%, I like the neat 1/3).

Launched Anti-Missile CM's--effectivness changed to 25% (credit Mau, 25% indeed seems like a generally acceptable value and you are the one who brought up the wind thing earlier! I had thrown the 40% out as a starting point anyway...).

MAD/SAD

MAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -1000.ft

SAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -750ft. Minimum detection depth has been increased from -50ft to -30ft. Note: the only difference between a MAD and SAD detection in the game is the depth at which they are detected, so if I set the depths the same, the sensors would be exactly the same sensor, as the platforms only vary in MAD characteristic, and have no separate SAD characteristic).

AI MAD--AI platforms do not have a separate MAD/SAD detector. Previously, they had been set to detect from 0 to -3000ft. In order to permit realistic evasion tactics from MAD equipped AI air platforms, I have set the AI MAD sensor to have SAD chacteristics (have fun under those funky sounding cargo ships!).

To be resolved:

--The Readme will be changed to make it clear that missile transients will not produce a TIW warning (credits to Bellman and Fish).

--The two stage ss-n-27 needs to be looked at closely and may be temporarily removed until set to work completely as planned.

--Minor changes to missile doctrine to improve launch characteristics.

--Variable Torpedo seeker modeling by quality and performance.

--Submarine passive sound levels may be adjusted to more realistic levels.

I am waiting to hear back from Amizaur about a few things. We may release what we've got now as I think it is very solid and we are confident it is virtually new-bug free, except for the possible doctrine issues with two stage ss-n-27.

[Bellman]

Looking great.

Can I clarify the position now with the new wakehomeing set-up ?

Luftwolf wrote :-

(.........you may still set the depth how you like and the torpedo will follow all wakes to target, regardless of type).

'Wakes' are defined as near surface disturbance caused by surface ships or surfaced subs.
Will these guys follow and prosecute subsurface cavitating subs ? If the latter is true then the depth
setting will be critical - but how critical ? What are the vertical limits ? :hmm:

[Zacho]

Can the P-100 Oniks SSN-22 Sunburn Encapsulated folding-fin version
launched from 65 cm torpedo tubes on SSN's. Associated with Rim Hat FCS.
industrial code 3K-55

or
SS-N-21 Sampson

be launched in the akula

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/akula/?

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Zacho

Can the P-100 Oniks SSN-22 Sunburn Encapsulated folding-fin version
launched from 65 cm torpedo tubes on SSN's. Associated with Rim Hat FCS.
industrial code 3K-55

or
SS-N-21 Sampson

be launched in the akula

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/akula/?

I'd have to sacrific some weapon or another... most likely the 65-76 since it's no longer actually carried on Russian submarines (reportedly...), but I'm sure that most players would not be in favor of this change, also I'm not sure any version of the Sunburn is carried on the Akula... I've never heard this before.

So, thank you for the idea, but I'm not sure it'd be a popular decision to go in that direction, or necessarily good from a gameplay/simulation stand point.

Cheers,
David

[Castout]

LuftWolf what about limited guidance wire?

Is there a way to hide the torpedo in the weapon control station once the wire has been cut? This was an issue back then with Sub Command. They still haven't changed it in DW.

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Castout

LuftWolf what about limited guidance wire?

Is there a way to hide the torpedo in the weapon control station once the wire has been cut? This was an issue back then with Sub Command. They still haven't changed it in DW.

Wirebreaks have been implemented in the Advanced Torpedo Control Mod... of which I made a working Alpha with complete torpedo individualization for DW 1.03. I hope to someday soon have the time to work on LWAMI 4.xx which will feature this weapon individualization with complete weapon physics, unique speed vs. range vs. depth curves for all weapons, fully 3-d limited seeker cones, vertical search patterns, multiple wire-control settings, etc.

In terms of eliminating weapon truth... nope, unfortunately this would have to be done by SCS.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I'd have to sacrific some weapon or another... most likely the 65-76 since it's no longer actually carried on Russian submarines (reportedly...), but I'm sure that most players would not be in favor of this change, also I'm not sure any version of the Sunburn is carried on the Akula... I've never heard this before.

So, thank you for the idea, but I'm not sure it'd be a popular decision to go in that direction, or necessarily good from a gameplay/simulation stand point.

Cheers,
David

It looks like the Moskit is too big for the 650mm tubes anyways.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/moskitm.htm and http://www.missilethreat.com/cruise/...ise_detail.asp report diameter at 760mm.

The Sampson is just a Russian TASM. AEGIS will smack it down without breaking a sweat.

[TLAM Strike]

The only submarine with the N-22 to my knowlage was a modified Victor III the K-292. It launched them with a specal launcher forward of the Sail.

[SquidB]

That sounds good, cant wait for the release.

[LuftWolf]

I have emailed the v1.03 distribution to Bill, it should be posted to subguru soon!

Here is the v1.03 addition to the readme, mostly from the above post.

v1.03


Multipurpose Torpedo Balancing: (Thank you Bellman for raising this issue.)

ADCAP--Given 60kts max speed.

UGST--Given 27nm max range.

Wakehoming Torpedos--DB flags and mission priorities changed to limit use to identified
surface ships (to prevent AI from firing vs. submerged contacts, you may still set
the depth how you like and the torpedo will follow all wakes to target, regardless
of type).

Launched Anti-Torpedo CM's--effectiveness has been lowered from 50% to 33%.

Launched Anti-Missile CM's--effectivness raised from 20% to 25%.(Thank you Mau for
suggesting this.)

Missile Launch Warning--I have changed the readme to make it clear there is no TIW warning or any other kind of audio warning for underwater missile launches. (Thank you Bellman for finding this and Fish for confirming it over a LAN.)

MAD/SAD

MAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -1000.ft

SAD--sensors have had max detection depth reduced from -3000ft to a realistic -750ft. Note: the only
difference between a MAD and SAD detection in the game is the depth at which they are
detected, so if I set the depths the same, the sensors would be exactly the same sensor,
as the platforms only vary in MAD characteristic, and have no separate SAD
characteristic).

AI MAD--AI platforms do not have a separate MAD/SAD detector. Previously, they had been set
to detect from 0 to -3000ft. In order to permit realistic evasion tactics from MAD equipped AI air platforms, I have set the AI MAD sensor to have SAD chacteristics (have fun under those funky sounding cargo ships!)

SS-N-27--Two stage BETA mod has been temporarily removed for refinement. The original 27 ASW and 54E have been restored in the DB and I have included the stock missileskim54E.txt
doctrine file, so that when you reinstall the mod, you don't have to change anything
else, it will just work as it should. You can delete or keep the other doctrine files
associated with the BETA mod, they are completely dissabled now.

Enjoy!

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Bellman,

Regarding the wakehoming issue.

SCS has moddeled object interaction with the environment in such a way that all things leave a wake that is independant of surface cavitation. All wakehoming torpedos home in on that environmental disturbance, not a return from the target itself, so the torpedo seeker itself ignors db flags. However, the AI will not fire this weapon at subs as I've set the flags (the purpose of changing it), nor can the user from the Nav map or firecontrol, unless you reclassify the target or use a snapshot. The fact that you can still set the run depth of the torpedos, combined with the fact that subs do leave a wake at depth, means you can try to use this as an ASW weapon, but the in-game feel would be the same as in real-life, using the weapon in a way it wasn't intended.

If you want to use the wakehomers against subs, I recommend it specifically for littoral contexts and at short-medium range mixed with active/passive homing torpedos.

[Bellman]

Thanks LW - I was just seeking claryfication which you have kindly supplied.

For SP., given the AI limits with the 65, realism dictates strict use only for wakehoming v surfs.

I am not able to MP at pres., but knowing the crafty opposition out there, it is as well to be prapared for
'interesting combos.' ............ ............. :hmm:.............. :|\

[LuftWolf]

I have had to change the SAD min back to -50ft, as the reduced level meant that ships with deep drafts displayed on the sensor.

The corrected version has been sent to Bill.