For those of you who think the XXI Sucks.....

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Jungman

FuMO391 is not fixed yet...getting to it soon...

The lines you see while on the surface of the water is the radar detector picking up the active radar from airplanes and warship. Black is airplane, red is warship radar.

I think for gameplay reasons, if it is possible - I try it tonight, to limit the MinHeight of radar detection to mostly picking up airplanes...may pick up medium large warships if they are very close.

Do not worry about not seeing warships, You can use your active radar all the time and see them through heavy fog. The manual claims using your radar will tip off warships, but the warships are not installed with any radar detectors (they are there but were set to NULL as if not finished -Ubisoft shoved this game out too early).

Maybe radar detectors can be added in to warships. Easy enough just a text edit to the warships' SNS file. They may actually work then, or not. I will enable them, if I can, so that using your active radar full time will bring you trouble.

Well, at least we know a way to see the airplanes coming from far away, plus set your TC to 1x and it will drop out of high TC when a radar signal is detected.

I think my next is to tone down the radar detectors some? and limit them to airplanes only.

This will go really good if Manuel Ortega can get the visual world bigger to 20 km. That is on the Mod forum. I been posting here, I guess when I get a decent balance, I will post an official thread on the Mod forum. You guys are my beta testers.

Ahh yes...saw that last night. When you see the square or triangle with tail..that is either a VISUAL sighting or Active Radar contact (actually a active radar contact will look like it is done in Pencil lead when zoomed in, and REd/black when zoomed out of nav map).

I never ran with active radar on because I was afraid it would give away my position.

Now...back to Radar DETECTION. I would still think warships set off the detector...but only as far as there is a line of sight to the warships active radar. (10,000m??)

[Silverfox18]

I see that this topic is still the focus of tweakers & mod freaks..... :rotfl:

How about some stories of your voyages in the XXI? Or is that too much to ask? :rotfl:

[Treeburst155]

Herr Jungman,

This is some good work here. I REALLY hope it gets incorporated into RUb 1.43. Thanks!

Treeburst155 out.

[v!por]

Jungman:

I installed the snorkel fix and the radar warning fix....

New sortie
VIIC 1/42 with snorkel
Observation and attack scopes up less than 1 meter max above surface
at 11 meters depth
seas at 7 meter (wind) This results in occasionally top of cun tower at surface
evening
4 to 5 knots recharging

I am picking up black radar lines (ac?)
First time ever i have warning of B24 coming in
able to dive well before dc start... but... even though only the snorkel, obs and attack above ac still get apparent fix and dc around me within sight of sub (cam on)

Thought this feed back would help .. and thanks for mods... \

[Jungman]

Oh, all feedback helps. Do you mean you start date is Jan 1942 or using a VIIC /42 Uboat?

"seas at 7 meter (wind) This results in occasionally top of cun tower at surface "

Heavier seas will expose your sub to the airplane and attract them. Can you go lower some more to 12 meter? And is your snorkel just barely above the water to work?

"4 to 5 knots recharging"

Be careful how fast you move when snorkelling diesel engines! The game thinks you are moving the equal of AHEAD FULL speed using electric motor. Even your Scopes will be seen easily. 7.2 to 8 knots is subs normal underwater maximum.

If an airplane is within close under 2 to 3 Km, do not go any faster than 3 knots or else they will see you. The diesel engines can move much faster underwater, in reality your snorkel would break off above 3 knots. It is a game quirk.

Just go very slow until planes are gone...make sure snorkel is just barely above the water to work. Heavy waves will expose your sub, snorkel needs to be longer IMHO There is a Height 5m for snorkel length in sub.dat file that could be altered to allow for better snorkelling make it longer so your sub stays underwater in heavy waves.

Wind above 8 m/s will really be a problem. The XXI is set for 10m and can hide better than VIIC. I ask, how well did they spot you? I did not nerf it to be completely cloaked. Did an airplane spot you from 8km and make a bee line to you? Or did it just happen to be within 2km (bad luck)?

It maybe you Uboat getting exposed in heavy waves and moving too fast. Did they bomb you spot on close or miss completely? Thanks for the info.

EDIT: I should say if you see airplanes coming, lower the snorkel, they will see it if they get within about 2 km of you. It is not cloaked. It should make the surprise attacks less often, but there is alot of air patrols. How far can you get before being harrased by airplanes? Is it less often?

[Jungman]

v!por

am picking up black radar lines (ac?)
First time ever i have warning of B24 coming in
able to dive well before dc start... but... even though only the snorkel, obs and attack above ac still get apparent fix and dc around me within sight of sub (cam

I think you were cruising on the surface of the ocean, then you receive the radar signals warning from the RF detector. Yes they alreay got a fix on you because you are on the surface of the water. The airplane B24 have the best radars quite early and can see your Uboat on the surface water from up to 17 km away depending on the year. I guess Jan 1942 B24 Liberator has ASVMark I at 8km range. Or Mark III at 12 km in Jan 1943.

They will fly to your last known position where you dived. They move quite fast. They may see your snorkel if they get within about 2 km especially if uboat is moving at above 3 knots (I did not cloak them for gameplay reason). You must lower the snorkel if they have seen it. Better yet lower it anyway to hide.

They do not have alot of time over you to target visually. If you survived with snorkel up, then they really did not spot you (it is chance)...they are bombing the last known position where you dived to 11 meters deep from picking you up on radar.

You see them, they see you on the surface too.

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by Jungman

Syxx: to set snort depth is easy. Just text edit with notepar/wordpad the file NSS_Uboat21.cfg inside the folder Data/Submarine/NSS_Uboat21. look for this entry...

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=15;meters
SnorkelDepth=14;meters ;Change this to 16m.
ersCrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=300;meters
SurfaceDepth=8;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=50;meters
StormConditions=13,0.5;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Hi Jungman,

My campaign is currently in May/1944, using a VII-C/42 sub. Staying surfaced near busy areas is definately getting harder to do!

Above you mention a snorkel-depth mod for the XXI sub (change from 14, to 16m) for less detection.

From the sub config-files for VII-B, and VII-C-VII-C/41-/42:

VII-B: (plus all IX-series subs too)
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=10;meters

VII-C /41 /42:
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=11;meters

With similar weather-conditions you mentioned for the XXI sub (fairly calm), do you know what snorkel-heights might work better, with the the VII-series subs?

p.s. I'm guessing a 1-meter increase might help.

[Jungman]

The VII series subs have a fairly short Snorkel compared to the conning tower. You can hardly get the snorkel set just right without the conning tower being exposed in heavy sea waves.

The 'subname'.sim file contains the Snorkel height at 5 meters. You could change it to be longer to maybe 7 meters and see if it works in game, not tested though. It would let you go deeper.

Many times I sit at 12m same as periscope if calm enough waters. But in moderate 9 m/s waves it need to go up to 11 depth to make snorkel work.

That stock 10m will get you killed. The conning tower is exposed and the airplanes can see it as if on the surface.

So yes you could lower 1 meter, depends upon sea state. Eventually you will get a 'feel' for the correct depth.

Also, the 1 meter visual MinHeight hack does not make you invisible within 4 km of target, really bad at about 2 km. THis only makes snorkel not so huge at over 4km distance attracting airplanes like crazy. The CFG file shows that anything over half range gets double detect time. I am taking advatage of that fact to help make the snork hide at distance (It is under 2 meters high).

[Syxx_Killer]

I quickly tested the subs and their snorkels. I wanted to see how deep I could go and still be able to breath. I used the Scapa Flow single mission. The wind in that mission is 4m/s. Here are my results:

Type VIIB/C – 12m
Type IXB/C – 14m
Type IXD2 – 15m
Type XXI – 16.5

I then edited the snorkel depth in the appropriate cfg file in each submarine's folder.

Program Files/Ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/Submarine

Then choose the right folder for the sub and edit the cfg.

[Jungman]

Those are good values. When the wind and waves get up around past 8 to 9 m/s, I must go up higher by 1 meter to keep my snort dry.

But the higher you go, the waves will give exposure of your sub to airplanes/ships. Try snorting in a 15 m/s gale...

You can but you will be at 10m and the airplanes and DD will see you between the waves. It was like that in real life anyway.

Also remember moving faster than 6 knots snorting will get you caught. While underwater the max speed of most Uboats is 8 knots. So the AI hydrophones hear you from 9 km away as if you are moving at FULL speed! In real life the snort mast would break off anyway.

Go slow the speed under 6 knots; 3 knots if enemy is close. Keep your snorkel just barely above waves. Hope for good weather and pray alot.

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by Jungman

The VII series subs have a fairly short Snorkel compared to the conning tower. You can hardly get the snorkel set just right without the conning tower being exposed in heavy sea waves.

The 'subname'.sim file contains the Snorkel height at 5 meters. You could change it to be longer to maybe 7 meters and see if it works in game, not tested though. It would let you go deeper.<<

Thanks Jungman, for more tips with snorkel-depths.

I will stick with testing the sub .cfg files, it's quite easy to do.

Btw is your RF_Detect mod still the same, or perhaps a new change since last release (July 25?).

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by Syxx_Killer

I quickly tested the subs and their snorkels. I wanted to see how deep I could go and still be able to breath. I used the Scapa Flow single mission. The wind in that mission is 4m/s. Here are my results:

Type VIIB/C – 12m
Type IXB/C – 14m
Type IXD2 – 15m
Type XXI – 16.5

I then edited the snorkel depth in the appropriate cfg file in each submarine's folder.

Program Files/Ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/Submarine

Then choose the right folder for the sub and edit the cfg.

Syxx_Killer thanks a bunch for posting test-results with edited snorkel-values! I would never have guessed to change the bigger subs that greatly. I'll just plug-in your numbers and go from there

I increased 1-meter for the VII-C/42. As Jungman says too, that seems to work well in calmer waters. Detection is just a bit slower I think, but it helps.

It'd be great to see a working FuMO-391 radar with XXI and VII-C/42 (or maybe -any- sub-snorkel if edited in). Maybe someday...

[GT182]

Jungman, no offense mate, but one request. Could you make the Sensor mod JSGME compatable? It's not that most of us are lazy, it's just so much easier installing mods with it. Plus it's easier to revert to SHIII with no mods.

[Syxx_Killer]

I'll just plug-in your numbers and go from there

Since it has been a while since you plugged in those numbers, how have they been working for you? I haven't used a snorkel sub much (busy with my IID campaign :|\ ), but when I did, it seems to have worked ok.