Glad to see majority of Israeli voters...

[MH]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I think so too, long term, Israel is digging itself into a pretty deep hole. If the Palestinians ever get smart and start using the Ghandi/MLK/South Africa playbook, Israel will have to come to terms with a Palestinian state. Netanyahu and Likud are not only delaying the inevitable, they are making it difficult for Israel to accept it.

I wish they got smart as most Isralis do.
Most Isralis don't give damn about the territory in west bank yet are concerned about security.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by MH

Well then...
The problem is that it is all about images and who ever bring the most emissive ones wins....
So what does it say about the public opinion in general and whom it does bring the motivation to keep coming with them?
Who gains most from destructive path?

What you are saying Oberon is that Bibi is no good for Israel because public opinion in the west is stupid?

In a way, yes. I mean, it's not just the rockets, there's the whole settlements issue and living conditions of those inside the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but ultimately the biggest amount of pictures comes from the occasional bombing runs and their aftermath.

Yes he is a loon idiot , cant stand him.

Sadly every nation has at least one person who doesn't understand that their comments can seriously hurt their nations global image.

Originally Posted by August

It's just the way you put it you made it sound (at least to me) like you think Israel is on that path by choice.

I understand what you are saying about damaging images but there always remains the question of what else can Israel do? If they stop fighting back it may lessen western tongue clucking but the rockets aren't going to stop nor will the suicide bombers and other attacks cease.

The reality is that Israel, unlike Northern Ireland is surrounded by enemies who will never be satisfied until they are destroyed and every last Jew either driven into the sea or enslaved. That's the bottom line here. Who the Israelis elect is immaterial as is western disapproval.

If the west really wants to help Israel we should come up with a real workable alternative to the situation rather than unrealistic schemes and Monday morning quarterbacking.

I believe the suicide bomber rate has decreased significantly since the construction of the walls, down from 40 in 2001 to 2 in 2008, and none since I believe. Attacks against Israelis within the West Bank and Gaza strip do continue, but outside of those areas, I believe that Hamas has discontinued the attacks and is focusing on rocket attacks (which it has since found do not work thanks to Iron Dome so it might consider stopping those) and kidnappings.

I think that Israel might want to consider tailoring its response to the rocket attacks to be more proportionate to the attacks. For example, last year 8 Israelis were killed by Hamas rockets and mortars and sixty injured. In return, 1,663 Palestinians were killed and 9,713 injured. That's 207 Palestinians for each Israeli.
Now, obviously Hamas help increase the death toll, they're not stupid, they know that these numbers will be published, that International monitors will go through the hospitals and do their reports, so the more people that get killed the better it is for Hamas. As a result, when Israel launches its bombing campaign over Gaza and the West Bank, it's playing directly into Hamas's hands.
Proportionate retaliation and greater research into minimal splash damage weaponry could well be a good direction for Israel to go, they created the excellent defence system called Iron Dome, so we know that Israel can create very powerful weaponry, perhaps it might be an idea to talk to the US and help them with their ARSS design so that rather than using missiles or bombs in retaliation they can target individual Hamas members, thus negating the advantage that Hamas has in locating their rocket launch sites next to places like hospitals and schools. A couple of sniper rounds into the rocket itself should render it unusable and then you can take out the crew at leisure.
Basically, it's a case of robbing Hamas of their propaganda munition as well as their explosive one. It's not just Israel that faces this problem, the west has had the same problem in the Middle East for over a decade. The reduction of collateral damage and casualties must continue.