Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine - Page 9

Oberon · 02-22-14, 10:07 AM

No real surprise that she's going to be released, she was the figure head for the opposition, Klitschko is going to find himself somewhat sidelined in the coming weeks I think.
Berkut and the police have seen which way the wind is blowing and have switched sides on Kiev, but the big question is what happens next?

Will Yanukovich flee out of the Ukraine? Or will he marshall his forces and set the stage for a Ukrainian civil war.

It is looking sadly increasingly like the latter, which opens the opportunity and possibility of Russian intervention...and possibly EU/US intervention on the other side.

Skybird · 02-22-14, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

No real surprise that she's going to be released, she was the figure head for the opposition, Klitschko is going to find himself somewhat sidelined in the coming weeks I think.
Berkut and the police have seen which way the wind is blowing and have switched sides on Kiev, but the big question is what happens next?

Will Yanukovich flee out of the Ukraine? Or will he marshall his forces and set the stage for a Ukrainian civil war.

It is looking sadly increasingly like the latter, which opens the opportunity and possibility of Russian intervention...and possibly EU/US intervention on the other side.

Cannot see EU troops or US troops entering Ukraine in anger to confront Russian troops there.

Oberon · 02-22-14, 10:28 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26306737

Didn't I see this in a Red Alert game?

Skybird · 02-22-14, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight

She reminds me of princess leia, I hope the force is still with her.

She is called "gas princess" and "ice princess" not for no reason. Remember, there are no innocent leaders in Russian politics - especially when they made such a huge fortune like she did. She has been build up as an innocent victim here in the West, because one thought the enemy of my enemy (Yanukovich) automatically is my noble, trustworthy, moral friend, but even if she became victim of a conspiracy - she is anything but "innocent". At the height of her ruling already, her close contacts to organsied crime were whispered behind raised hands. Rumours even mentioned murder. And that was not just Yanukovich propaganda outlets.

I care as little for her as I care for Yanukovich.

Catfish · 02-22-14, 10:38 AM

I did not know there even was a Lenin statue to topple left, standing around somewhere.
Somehow funny to see that 'conservatives' (usually right-wing) can be communists.

But when it comes to gaining and maintaining power, the same mechanisms apply, and any politics (like religion) is just the vehicle to "legally" oppress the own population.

Skybird · 02-22-14, 10:45 AM

The Southern and Eastern provinces have joined the Yanukovich camp.

Reconciliation, and forming a "government of unity", looks different.

Jimbuna · 02-22-14, 12:59 PM

Possible prelude to a partition of the country?

Skybird · 02-22-14, 01:13 PM

That probably depends on whether Yanukovich has the support of the clear majority of ordinary people in the South-East, or not.

I think his chances are 40:60, worstening. His era is over. Considering how quickly he suddenly collapsed, the anger in the Kremlin must be such that they do not feel tempted to "reward" him any further by helping him.

Putin must be boiling, I'm certain.

But as I said earlier, I feel no triumph for Europe as well. The financial cost for especially the netto paying nations, will be tremendous, and I do not welcome that one bit. For the Ukrainian people it might become a win (or not, we need to see). But for the EU, it only is costs , costs and then more costs.

Not even mentioning the deep corruption, and the criminal oligarchs, the organised crime.

No, triumph for Europe looks different. We win nothing with the Ukraine.

And Russia - will take revenge. In Syria. Over Russian intentions to support Iranian nuclear programs. And in other areas of international meaning where their compliance or at least silent toleration would be needed.

mapuc · 02-22-14, 01:26 PM

I can't say what the next step is going to be, I only know that Putin doesn't allow Ukrainian turns toward EU and Europe.

If I should make a guess.

Russia goes all in, in their support to the Eastern Ukraine and the former President.

What's going to happen, if that would be the case- I dare not to guess.

Markus

Skybird · 02-22-14, 01:45 PM

I think Putin would have gone quite far as long as Yanukovich stayed in command in Kiev. Probably short of sending Russian troops into the Ukraine, however, meant to fight the opposition.

But with Yanukovich loosing grip and fleeing Kiev, I think Putin realised that this man was no longer a card to bet his money on.

He will probably hope that Tymochenkop becomes the new leader, because although they do not love each other, she is a known variable, whereas all other opposition leaders probably are not.

But it seems that the opposition's enthusiams over Tymochenko is somewhat tuned down, too. She has been the leader of the country - and she rose quite some anger and opposition to her back then, she was controversial a figure, absolutely.

mapuc · 02-22-14, 02:25 PM

I always thought that Yanukovich was Kreml's marionette

I don't think Russia is going to send troops, not yet though, maybe much later, when their leader of chose are going to lose the battle for Ukraine

Markus

Hungry-Bear · 02-22-14, 02:36 PM

Ukraine mainly waiting rude awakening in relation to EU - after the signing of the association agreement still no free travel, no work, no sale, no money for Ukrainians. This only created an economic wall from Russia and flood the Ukrainian market with goods from EU, which destroy local industry and employment.

TarJak · 02-22-14, 02:36 PM

Yanukovych has denounced the "couo" in a TV appearance. Claims that he was at his residence outside Kiev appear to be false as journalists have been able to freely enter the property and see for themselves that he's not there.

Sounds like he's made a face saving attempt for his supporters. Hard to say which way Putin will play his hand but I doubt he can jump in without causing much more violent repercussions.

Jimbuna · 02-22-14, 02:41 PM

Regardless of what Putin does or doesn't do...the EU certainly won't be putting any boots on the ground because that is precisely the excuse Putin needs to do similar.

Hungry-Bear · 02-22-14, 02:41 PM

Russia does not need to send troops (if western Ukraine not attack to the eastern Ukraine), Putin comfortable agree with EU leaders on the division of "the spoils".

02-22-14, 10:45 AM	#126
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,697 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The Southern and Eastern provinces have joined the Yanukovich camp. Reconciliation, and forming a "government of unity", looks different. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-22-14, 12:59 PM	#127
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Possible prelude to a partition of the country? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-22-14, 01:13 PM	#128
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,697 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	That probably depends on whether Yanukovich has the support of the clear majority of ordinary people in the South-East, or not. I think his chances are 40:60, worstening. His era is over. Considering how quickly he suddenly collapsed, the anger in the Kremlin must be such that they do not feel tempted to "reward" him any further by helping him. Putin must be boiling, I'm certain. But as I said earlier, I feel no triumph for Europe as well. The financial cost for especially the netto paying nations, will be tremendous, and I do not welcome that one bit. For the Ukrainian people it might become a win (or not, we need to see). But for the EU, it only is costs , costs and then more costs. Not even mentioning the deep corruption, and the criminal oligarchs, the organised crime. No, triumph for Europe looks different. We win nothing with the Ukraine. And Russia - will take revenge. In Syria. Over Russian intentions to support Iranian nuclear programs. And in other areas of international meaning where their compliance or at least silent toleration would be needed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-22-14, 01:45 PM	#130
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,697 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think Putin would have gone quite far as long as Yanukovich stayed in command in Kiev. Probably short of sending Russian troops into the Ukraine, however, meant to fight the opposition. But with Yanukovich loosing grip and fleeing Kiev, I think Putin realised that this man was no longer a card to bet his money on. He will probably hope that Tymochenkop becomes the new leader, because although they do not love each other, she is a known variable, whereas all other opposition leaders probably are not. But it seems that the opposition's enthusiams over Tymochenko is somewhat tuned down, too. She has been the leader of the country - and she rose quite some anger and opposition to her back then, she was controversial a figure, absolutely. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-22-14, 02:41 PM	#134
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Regardless of what Putin does or doesn't do...the EU certainly won't be putting any boots on the ground because that is precisely the excuse Putin needs to do similar. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-22-14, 10:07 AM	#121
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	No real surprise that she's going to be released, she was the figure head for the opposition, Klitschko is going to find himself somewhat sidelined in the coming weeks I think. Berkut and the police have seen which way the wind is blowing and have switched sides on Kiev, but the big question is what happens next? Will Yanukovich flee out of the Ukraine? Or will he marshall his forces and set the stage for a Ukrainian civil war. It is looking sadly increasingly like the latter, which opens the opportunity and possibility of Russian intervention...and possibly EU/US intervention on the other side.

02-22-14, 10:28 AM	#123
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26306737 Didn't I see this in a Red Alert game?

02-22-14, 10:38 AM	#125
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,799 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I did not know there even was a Lenin statue to topple left, standing around somewhere. Somehow funny to see that 'conservatives' (usually right-wing) can be communists. But when it comes to gaining and maintaining power, the same mechanisms apply, and any politics (like religion) is just the vehicle to "legally" oppress the own population.

02-22-14, 01:26 PM	#129
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,545 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I can't say what the next step is going to be, I only know that Putin doesn't allow Ukrainian turns toward EU and Europe. If I should make a guess. Russia goes all in, in their support to the Eastern Ukraine and the former President. What's going to happen, if that would be the case- I dare not to guess. Markus

02-22-14, 02:25 PM	#131
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,545 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I always thought that Yanukovich was Kreml's marionette I don't think Russia is going to send troops, not yet though, maybe much later, when their leader of chose are going to lose the battle for Ukraine Markus

02-22-14, 02:36 PM	#132
Hungry-Bear Nub Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Ukraine mainly waiting rude awakening in relation to EU - after the signing of the association agreement still no free travel, no work, no sale, no money for Ukrainians. This only created an economic wall from Russia and flood the Ukrainian market with goods from EU, which destroy local industry and employment.

02-22-14, 02:36 PM	#133
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Yanukovych has denounced the "couo" in a TV appearance. Claims that he was at his residence outside Kiev appear to be false as journalists have been able to freely enter the property and see for themselves that he's not there. Sounds like he's made a face saving attempt for his supporters. Hard to say which way Putin will play his hand but I doubt he can jump in without causing much more violent repercussions.

02-22-14, 02:41 PM	#135
Hungry-Bear Nub Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Russia does not need to send troops (if western Ukraine not attack to the eastern Ukraine), Putin comfortable agree with EU leaders on the division of "the spoils".