bomb in oslo

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I've been following the Sky News updates on the story at work and was quite suprised to learn that the stiffest penalty he can expect under Norwegian law is 21 years imprisonment

Yes, if the law be followed in "the act of terror" so it may be so, but justice in Norway will likely show another, which is not inconceivable.

this was not about his opinions, and what he stands for

It is exactly that.

you must have understood that he expressed himself emotionally, about what happened in Oslo, and nothing else

That means nothing when he expresses the same views as that murdering bastard in Oslo and makes a point of underlining everthing he writes with the same message of hate filled neo nazi bigotry.

[Jimbuna]

So is it possible a sentence in excess of twenty one years is possible?

[Gerald]

We are in disagreement on this.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

so were his victims jews or muslims or what?

Probably all that, plus Christians and atheists. The point is: the summer camp on that isle was run by the socialist party of Norway, with meetings and discussions of socialist political issues. So sympathy for socialism probably is the primary characteristic all young people being there had in common.

However, I noted a probably unintended coincidence in German TV news early Saturday evening. In a broadcast from the scene, they interviewed 6 or 7 young people who escaped, but had been there. One was an obviously Scandianvian girl, white, blond. The others all where Arab/ME-looking people, definitely no Scandinavians. No joke, but true.

The attacker obviously had an evil but yet precisely functioning mind, his plan, although intended to cause terror, was well laid out and made sense - from his ice-cold point of view. First he distracted and bound the police by the bomb in Oslo, then struck at thereal primary target of his, the camp - on an isle where the police could not reach quickly, and his victims could not easily escape and were helpless prey to be hunted down in a small, limited environment, making the job all the easier for the hunter - and them all representing the future of the country, the socialist future of the party he probably has a strong dislike for, and that he probably also holds responsible for the migration policy of Norway that also sees substantial Muslim migration - with Islam being one of the things he expressed criticism for on his internet appearances.

In the way the android in Alien 1 says something like that he admired the conceptual clearity of the alien monster as an evolutionary design that represents a flawless predator that does not get hindred by any scruples of moral nature, one must admit that the plan of this assassin was brilliant, too, and unfortunately worked out to be almost perfect. This is no expression of admiration or smyptahy of mine - it is just an objective observation.

In the media here, they quoted from his internet appearances. Nothing of those quotes on German TV was explicitly Nazi-like, or hateful and irrational on Islam, but sounded quite determined, but sober, not that much different than what I criticise Islam for, what I say is even more aggressive than those quotes they showed. However, media here already link him not to the "right political" scene, which would be more precise maybe by those quotes they gave over here, but claim he had links to the "Nazi" scene. They also called him an Islam-hater, while the quotes they gave by him on that program were anything but hateful, just very critical of it in the same way like I am. When dealing with mass murderers and wanting to profile themn, such precision nevertheless is a necessity - clouding the murderer's psyche and intellect by labels that are politically opportune, does not help the cause of wanting to understand how his minds ticks. But you need to understand how he ticks if you want to increase chances, though in a theoretical understanding only, to prevent events like this horror now.

What also gets mentioned, is the idea that he represents a Christian fundamentalist sect or community or education. They did not give quotes so far (on German TV at last) that would inbdicate that, but it is possible that belief of a religious kind, or a cultural self-conception linked to that, indeed is part of the casue that made him tick out: his only one tweet-quote he left, is an indication for that, saying something like that one person with a strong belief is worth more than a 100,000 people with just ideas. Whether he meant "religious" belief or belief as a more general strong conviction, the Tweet-quote does not reveal.

Just some objective observations and emotionless thoughts of mine. Do not mistake them with any attempt of mine to relativise what he did. He is a monster - but an extremely intelligent one, in his way.

Also, very important: from a police-psychologist's point of view, he is no amok runner. Amok runners plan and execute their own killing in the end. It is reported he did not even attempt to not survive. This one is a guy with a mission that he plans to defend and justify. No amok run. The cold-blooded brilliance and precision by which he thought out and executed his plan, also speaks against the amok runner theory. If any psychological label is wanted, "psychopath" would meet several diagnostic key criterias like lacking empathy, lacking scruples to lie, betray and manipulate others (or to kill them), and rationalising the mistreaterment of the other for one's own interest. The own interest in this case would be the justification of his own cause.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So is it possible a sentence in excess of twenty one years is possible?

But as he undergoes a mental examination, to exclude refractions, as he "might" was when the offense was running, so the sentence can be shorter than 21 years or more, (if it turns out that he had mental disorders, on paper) or no one forgets to lock the door in the prison, then it will be much shorter, but the prosecutor will press for maximum penalties of at least anyway.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Sheesh, this thread went to **** quickly. For gods sake, it's not about who is a neo-nazi or Muslims working as medics. It's one nutjob who did what nutjobs do, and thankfully he was captured before he turned the gun on himself and now he will face trial.

Well said.

People, please keep your comments civil.

My condolences to the people of Norway, Texas supports you. This is a national tragedy, the time to discuss the other things is later. For now, support these people, they are stricken.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Vendor

But as he undergoes a mental examination, to exclude refractions, as he "might" was when the offense was running, so the sentence can be shorter than 21 years or more, (if it turns out that he had mental disorders, on paper) or no one forgets to lock the door in the prison, then it will be much shorter, but the prosecutor will press for maximum penalties of at least anyway.

I guessed that because it's similar in most Western European countries.

The question I was asking "So is it possible a sentence in excess of twenty one years is possible"?

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I guessed that because it's similar in most Western European countries.

The question I was asking "So is it possible a sentence in excess of twenty one years is possible"?

Yes it is, if no other event coming up, which I see as not very significant!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The attacker obviously had an evil but yet precisely functioning mind, his plan, although intended to cause terror, was well laid out and made sense - from his ice-cold point of view. First he distracted and bound the police by the bomb in Oslo, then struck at thereal primary target of his, the camp - on an isle where the police could not reach quickly, and his victims could not easily escape and were helpless prey to be hunted down in a small, limited environment, making the job all the easier for the hunter - and them all representing the future of the country, the socialist future of the party he probably has a strong dislike for, and that he probably also holds responsible for the migration policy of Norway that also sees substantial Muslim migration - with Islam being one of the things he expressed criticism for on his internet appearances.

Yes I agree with your analysis, I think he targeted the leftest part of the Norwegian political system that he sees as allowing for a mass Muslim immigration of his country for destruction and he picked the weakest target in that area, their children. Which also has the additional effect of reducing the "leftest elite" of the future giving his faction a future advantage.

To echo Sky, this is just subjective analysis on my part.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Vendor

Yes it is, if no other event coming up, which I see as not very significant!

Ah, right...fingers crossed then.

[Skybird]

German newspaper Die Welt claims to have an original copy of a 1500 paged manifest by the murderer, in which he describes the desatruction of Wetsern culture by a union of Marxists and Muslims with abusing multiculturalism as their primary weapon to achieve this. He calls for battle against multiculturalists and Muslim migration into Europe, and quotes even one of my own favourite German writers Henryk Broder who said that he doubts that the Europeans have the will to resist to the Islamisation of Europe. He calls for armed resistence and deportation and recommends people to stockpile weapons for the coming civil war, and he demands a reorientation of the national policy to focus on fostering agriculture, medicine and craftsmanships. He signed this manifest with something like "Poor Knights of Christ and the Salomonic Temple", and links himself and the needed future political system in Europe to the system of the order of the Temnple Knights and something that he calls a Russian administrative democracy, since democracy of the current type has failed. He counts for 45.000 killed multiculturalists and Marxists in the coming fight, and one million wounded, and gives explantions on how to build big bombs. The EU should be destroyed, the national government should be replaced since they were no longer truly democratic, the military should be strenghened, there should be a mandatory birth quota for women in Europe and a complete deportation of Muslims out of Europe.

Original quotes (in German translation) here:
http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/artic...-Manifest.html

As I said: no amok runner who just ticked out over emotional breakdown, but a guy seeing himself on a mission to save the world. His intellect is precisely working in an instrumental, short-reaching understanding, but he shows signs of megalomania, messiah-syndrome and omni-potence, and his visions mislead him since he seems to have lost track of reality and what realistically can be achieved (or not being able to logically combine all the lose ends from his many theories, leaving him with just his disaconnected-from-reality conclusions).

1500 pages. Never ever complain again about any of my essays! He definitely is mentally deranged. Intelligent in a way, but mentally deranged nevertheless.

[Gerald]

I have read some of the material, and the person using an alias ... and yes it can be drawn conclusions, but is the subject of proper speculation whether this is driven hard.

[Feuer Frei!]

Update:

The man accused of a massacre at a youth camp in Norway and a bombing in the capital, Oslo, has admitted responsibility, his lawyer says.
Anders Behring Breivik, 32, described his actions as "gruesome but necessary", and said he would explain himself at a court hearing on Monday.
"He thought it was gruesome having to commit these acts, but in his head they were necessary," Mr Breivik's lawyer Geir Lippestad told Norwegian media.

SOURCE

[BossMark]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'll be around for the deeds first thing tomorrow

How wrong could I be, and reading a post further down the max this lunatic can get is 21 years imprisonment ?